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HIROBO Freya - Sceadu - Shuttle > Evo 90 head mixing arm settings for 3d
 
 
Brendan78
Senior Heliman
Location: Cronulla, NSW Australia

Hi Guys,

Just got a quick question and i've read all the 3d head setup posts, but I couldn't find any post that was really specific on the different mixing arm settings and making the heli more agile. From holes left to right on the mixing arm (1 being the furthest from the hub and 4 being the closest), i've seen recommendations for use of holes 2&3 to reduce the flybar feed back to make cyclic faster, and also holes 2&4 (this is in the manual). I also noticed you can use 3&4, has anyone played around with all these settings and there relation to cyclic response/agile 3d setup?? I understand you can play around the blade grip hole to get more or less pitch as well but i'm really after the mixing arm setups that people have used and tested for 3d,

Thanks! (pictures would be great too)

just noted too, this is for the Freya Evo 90 head (FFZ-3) (not the new 3d head that hasn't been released for sale yet
06-05-2008 12:11 AM
 
 
realwiz
Senior Heliman
Location: Medina, Ohio, USA

I'm interested to hear the answer as well. I'm still putting my Freya together.

I'm guessing the cost of the new head will be equivalent to the entire Freya EVO kit.
06-05-2008 03:32 AM
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
helicopterMark
Veteran
Location: Rumson, NJ

from a purely scientific standpoint the two outermost holes 3 and 4 I believe you refered to them as would convey the most movement to the blades for a given input from a swash based on their distance from the fulcrum of this mixing lever. there can be such as thing as too much though so use caution lol.

M3

Mark Schneider
Team MRC/Hirobo
Team Beam
Turbulence D3, Evo 90, EVO 50 EX, Beam E4
06-05-2008 03:40 AM
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
Qooo
Senior Heliman
Location: Hong Kong

http://www.runryder.com/helicopter/...eya+3D+settings



DX7 - FREYA EVO90 SWM - LEPTON EX - T600E - Thinking 9303 2.4G
06-05-2008 04:09 AM
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
Brendan78
Senior Heliman
Location: Cronulla, NSW Australia

Thanks for that Qooo. I've got my head setup the same as here:

http://www.runryder.com/helicopter/...ght=evo+90+head

So i'm using the inner blade grip hole and the number 2 and 4 position on the Mixing lever (and inner hole on seasaw).

So using the number 2&3 holes on the mixing lever makes the heli more aggressive? have you tested using 3&4?? are you using the outer hole on the blade grips now? couldn't really tell what hole you were using on the seasaw either (i.e, i'm using the closest hole to the hub as per the post above).

Thanks for your input
06-05-2008 04:26 AM
 
 
Brendan78
Senior Heliman
Location: Cronulla, NSW Australia

Hi Mark,

I thought that too, but for some reason there is the post above (and i've seen the link Qooo points too) refering to use the two centre holes and the out hole on the blade grips, it conflicts with the infor on the 3d head setup link I put in my post above so just after the difference between the two and what is better for 3d?
06-05-2008 04:45 AM
 
 
Quickster
Senior Heliman
Location: Victoria,Australia

I had mine set up with 2 and 3 with no weights in the paddles and the ball mounted to the inner most hole on the blade grip and i found it to be too responsive and unstable!
06-05-2008 04:55 AM
 
 
Brendan78
Senior Heliman
Location: Cronulla, NSW Australia

Thanks mate,

So what setup did you end up on?? does moving it to the outer position on the grip fix that?
06-05-2008 05:00 AM
 
 
hornet dave
Veteran
Location: Pittsburgh PA USA

http://www.runryder.com/helicopter/...hlight=evo+head

It's got a spreadsheet which shows most combinations on the head. You will see that only a handful are worth pursuing.

LaHeli Maxir - The only micro that matters
06-05-2008 01:01 PM
 
 
Quickster
Senior Heliman
Location: Victoria,Australia

Moving to the outer grip position will reduce collective and cyclic pitch. That may soften it a little, but you dont want to loose cyclic pitch. I went for the 2 and 4 combo with no weights and about 8 degress of cyclic and +/-11 of collective pitch. I mounted the mixing arms closest to the head block which gives a nice stable hover with plenty of response when needed. I also used the 80 duro dampers. That was good allround combination for me. It does pretty good aileron tic tocs
06-05-2008 01:35 PM
 
 
Ivan
Veteran
Location: Hutchinson Kansas

Pretty generic answer:

More bell mix (direct to swash) generally decreases stability and increases cyclic quickness

More hiller mix (flybar input) increases stability and decreases cyclic quickness

I have the old Freya head (same as X-Spec i think) and with the maximum bell mix, it is way too twitchy. I run mine on the middle setting with the brass weights, and it is nearly perfect for me, smooth but will flip like crazy if asked to.

I came, I saw, I hovered
06-05-2008 03:56 PM
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
Brendan78
Senior Heliman
Location: Cronulla, NSW Australia

Thanks guys! awesome responses! It actually flies really well at the moment and is responsive when I want to throw it around, but wanted to see what setting pushes this thing to the limit for max 3d.

Hornet Dave, that spreadsheet is great! what setting did you end up settling on??
06-06-2008 01:12 AM
 
 
Brendan78
Senior Heliman
Location: Cronulla, NSW Australia

Hi Quickster, i've got the same settings as you at the moment but just have the brass weights in, i'll try taking them out with the current settings as well
06-06-2008 01:13 AM
 
 
Agilefalcon
Veteran
Location: Fort Worth, Texas

Generally:
To increase response:
Larger area paddles
Thinner profile
Less flybar mass
Longer flybar
Reduced flybar feedback (Hiller)
Increased Bell input

You may also use longer balls on the swash plate up to the mixing levers for more Bell input.

Reposition the control rods on the mixing levers so that you reduce the flybar feedback (I'll post some pictures of that).

Because of the design, you will need to use the outer of the 3 holes on the blade holder or you'll have far too much cyclic.

You can get a very responsive and aggressive head without much effort- oh, and you'll want the higher durometer head dampers.

Chris Berardi
MRC/Hirobo Representative
Amsoil Synthetic Lubricants Dealer
06-06-2008 01:30 AM
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
hornet dave
Veteran
Location: Pittsburgh PA USA

For the mixing arms, I'm using positions 1 and 3 (using the protocol listed above) as opposed to the stock 2 and 4. I'm using the innermost holes on the flybar carrier, and the innermost holes on the blade grips. This corresponds to line number 4 on the first spreadsheet, with a .85 flybar ratio and 1.23 for my so called collective ratio. This combo works well with 95mm V-paddles, fast flight exhibits practically no pitch-down tendency. Cyclics are fast but not lightning quick.

IMHO, for 3D, don't consider any setup with the collective ratio of below 1.2, it just wouldn't have enough collective range to have fun. FWIW, I found it took a bit of time to get this heli to be responsive and still fly well in fast flight, especially with the mechanical swash mixing. With the CCPM kit, you can get a little bit more swash tilt and collective at the same time, which makes setup a little easier. With the mechanical mix, you really have to trade off elevator input vs collective range.

Also, be careful, there's lots of combinations that will cause binding. There's no guarantee that the settings on the spreadsheet won't cause binding in one way or another.

LaHeli Maxir - The only micro that matters
06-06-2008 02:01 AM
 
 
Brendan78
Senior Heliman
Location: Cronulla, NSW Australia

Thanks guys,

Looking forward to the pics as well Agilefalcon, i'm running the 80 durometer dampers at the moment, and have the CCPM conversion kit ordered.

This is a great thread!
06-06-2008 02:22 AM
 
 
Brendan78
Senior Heliman
Location: Cronulla, NSW Australia

I've just converted the Freya Evo to CCPM, looks great and am really keen to get it in the air. I've set it up with +-12, and around 7 degrees of cyclic but I have to be care of the swash bind on the mainshaft in the corners. I have set it up for holes 2 and 3 on the mixing arms with the middle hole on the blade grips(lead weight in the paddles only, inner hole on the flybar carrier as well).

I have a question around the swash and the inner balls however. There is an option with the metal CCPM swash to use the 9mm balls as opposed to E type pivot bolts. I tried as suggest for the washout block and had the washout arms binding on the swash too easily because of the increased movement. Will I get and cyclic advantage by running the longer 9mm bolts on the links going directly to the mixing arms? I will get more movement from the swash to the blades (Will be able to reduce the swash movement to stop the binding in the corners) but i'm not sure of the advantages/disadvantages of doing this)............anyone???
06-20-2008 02:35 AM
 
 
Brendan78
Senior Heliman
Location: Cronulla, NSW Australia

.................anyone??
06-20-2008 05:40 AM
 
 
Jafa
Elite Veteran
Location: Sydney, Australia

You'll get more control - but not more cyclic

Try and get more cyclic, 7.5 degrees
With the Evo you need all you can get to make it fun
And you're running long blades - so the problem will be worse
(I am running 690's - had to in order to bring her to life)


Lepton | TRex600Nitro | Sceadu | Freya | Avant | Predator Carbon Max
06-20-2008 10:48 AM
 
 
hornet dave
Veteran
Location: Pittsburgh PA USA

For sure use a cyclic ring.

One more thing, when I tried the inner holes on the washout arms, the lower ball links on the rods between the washout arms and the flybar cage would bind against the jesus bolt if I recall correctly.

I currently use rotortech 690mm 3D pro blades and they are more responsive in cyclic than the 690mm v-blades I used to run:

http://www.heli-world.com/detail.aspx?ID=1076

LaHeli Maxir - The only micro that matters
06-20-2008 02:21 PM
 
 
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HIROBO Freya - Sceadu - Shuttle > Evo 90 head mixing arm settings for 3d
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