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ZoomsHobbies . HeliHobby . Ron’s HeliProz South

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Main Discussion > Understanding Non-3D Pilots
 
 
RappyTappy
Elite Veteran
Location: Las Vegas, NV

No one should be forced to do 3D. 3D definitely not the only way to fly. Helis are so great because they are multi-faceted and can appeal to very different people and flying styles. I like all

Chris
Xero G

Forever Brothers
Mickey Tylo
05-31-2008 07:15 PM
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
Aaron29
Key Veteran
Location: Bossier City, LA

And the anti-establishment crowd comes out!

The pressure to 3D is all in the "wow" factor. Mr. Joe Audience thinks a slow, climbing 360 degree pirouette over a cone is easier than an aileron roll. Or a sideways figure 8 is easier than a traveling flip. Joe is wrong. He doesn't have the experience flying to know better.

So what do pilots do? Whatever Joe thinks is cool!

A bit of followership, IMO. I have a lot of respect for the FAI guys. They fly for true heli mastery, never for cool points with Joe.

I challenge anyone to perform both 3D and FAI. You'll find they're both hard. You're less likely to crash practicing FAI, but making it look good is VERY difficult. 3D is more unforgiving of a big error, but you can fake through a lot.s.

Before calling FAI easy hovering, remember, you lose points any time the heli body perceptibly moves due to cyclic input. Altitude and speed must be constant even in changing winds. It must be in control the whole time. This is HARD!

IMO 3D starts to get hard with piroetting maneuvers. That is my personal definition of 3D, when I get the tail involved.

A sideways figure eight performs an 8 over the ground, with the nose of the heli pointed toward the center of the circle, then you go the other half of the 8 and the tail is toward the center of the circle.

I can piroflip. It's easy once you get the timing and learn subtle corrections to keep it in place. BUT, I can't make a sideways figure 8 look any good. I accelerate or decelerate or my altitude isn't constant. To me, this is a MUCH harder maneuver than the piro-flip.

3D guys as a whole don't have more skill than FAI guys as a whole. But there is the perception of greater skill. So to get Joe to say "wow" most do 3D.

I appreciate any style of flying that takes dedication. I don't buy into the 3D is the end-all-be-all sign of mastery. Neither should anyone.

We're comparing Beethoven to Metallica. Both are music, which is better? Neither.

-Aaron
05-31-2008 07:15 PM
 
 
SkyWarp
Senior Heliman
Location: Planet Earth

Quote 
If for some odd reason I was to make contact with the ground in a nose dive that will open up the throttle wide open making it difficult to engage throttle cut

Zman,
Not a problem with E-machines.


Century Swift-
Anticipating a crash is worse than the crash itself.
05-31-2008 07:24 PM
 
 
Aaron29
Key Veteran
Location: Bossier City, LA

I liked the old 3d masters - back in 2003, when they were very FAI like. It was more of a blend of 3D and FAI. They had inverted piroetting figure 8s and stuff like that.

Now it's all big bens and bog-and-thrash-your-heli maneuvers.

3d Masters is still a good step above XFC in this respect.

-Aaron
05-31-2008 07:25 PM
 
 
JetFire
Key Veteran
Location: The Golden STATE

Quote 
liked the old 3d masters - back in 2003, when they were very FAI like

I agree. Me too. Now it’s more considered as sport flying. It's similar to the 80's when Def Leppard was considered Heavy metal.. now more or less rock.


Trex600N Pro
Kinetic 50
Futaba 7C2.4

-The ONLY way you fail is when you quit.-
05-31-2008 07:29 PM
 
 
30636086
Veteran
Location: Tacoma, WA

Quote 
To each his own. The real question is if the person enjoys what they are doing, why should you even care?

IMO that is the answer!

If you like hovering why do you care if another guy does 3d? If you fly 3d why you care if the other guy just hover? As long as you are happy and contempt! The same with the guys that get all "emotional" when talk to you about why you spend money on that brand you should buy these brand! Who cares? as long as you having fun! I don't care if you come out with a flying lawnmower! as long as you happy with it!! (and don't hurt anyone!)

These is a hobby!!

I don't suffer from Mental illnesses; I actually enjoy mine!
05-31-2008 07:31 PM
 
 
Aaron29
Key Veteran
Location: Bossier City, LA

One newer maneuver that wasn't in 2003 3dM; the piroetting tick tock.

It rocks! And talk about hard.








Def Leppard was Metal?

-Aaron
05-31-2008 07:33 PM
 
 
Aaron29
Key Veteran
Location: Bossier City, LA

3D vs. Sport

Once upon a time there was no distinction.

-Aaron
05-31-2008 08:10 PM
 
 
KC
Elite Veteran
Location: WA

Right on who cares?

If you crash, its part of learning. The key to any style is to learn what you can do (avoid crashes) and figure out what you can't do (risk crashes) without causing an injury or property damage.

non3d is cool, makes for better 3d....3d isnt the ultimate flying btw, F3c hovering is probably the hardest flying challenge in helis....everyone sees your mistakes.



Can't get any practice or testing in without someone telling me how to fly...

...I've had this gyro a week, messed up everything, the peanut gallery was on strong, we had to edit it

05-31-2008 08:14 PM
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
baccas66
Heliman
Location: east anglia, united kingdom

My car can travel up to 150 M.P.H That doesn't mean that I want to drive it at that speed, nor is it appropriate to drive at that kind of speed, even on parts of a race track.
Same thing with Helis in my book. A 3D machine can perform amazing feats in the right hands, in pilots both young and old.
Equally, it can fly quite happily as a scale machine, or just hovering around.
I'm just glad that someone invented the Radio Control Helicopter.
It has given me enormous enjoyment, and increased my mechanical knowledge, especially with all the repairs whilst learning to fly!
Jeff
05-31-2008 08:28 PM
 
 
the Wasp
rrProfessor
Location: Vt

hey Mavrik1,, try hovering 1ft off the ground, now do a very very slow backwards Start Pattern, to do it good is very challenging,,

once you see the control a good Patten Pilot has you can respect them..

Jim
Buzz Buzz Buzz
05-31-2008 09:04 PM
 
 
Mavrik1
Senior Heliman
Location: USA

Quote 
It's all in the "wow" factor of the audience.

Personally, I am not a member of a club, I have my own flying field (many acres) and my neighbors call my heli a contraption. However, I'm very interested in being a crack 3D pilot.

Quote 
hey Mavrik1,, try hovering 1ft off the ground, now do a very very slow backwards Start Pattern, to do it good is very challenging,,

I learned how to fly in my small living room with a CP heli, I'm not new to precision.

The bottom line is having fun.
05-31-2008 09:17 PM
 
 
Eagle2bravo
Veteran
Location: Working or flying helis

That was some awesome flying KC. You fly so silky smooth.

T-rex 600n, Trex 450 se, Gaui 200, Trex 500, Blade cx, . "If ya plant corn, ya get corn."
05-31-2008 09:25 PM
 
 
Blade_Master1
Key Veteran
Location: Canada

IMO
3D was meant to show what a heli is capable of doing but somehow it turned into a competition of sorts.
I can watch ASJ for an hour but after that all the other pilots performances seem boring.
For me it's watching precision acrobatic moves those are truly amazing and even more so when it involves a scale model doing acrobats.




.

JM2C's :)
05-31-2008 09:51 PM
 
 
ErichF
Key Veteran
Location: Odessa, FL 33556 (Tampa Area)

Hehehh...Point WELL missed...

Quote 
Quote
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

hey Mavrik1,, try hovering 1ft off the ground, now do a very very slow backwards Start Pattern, to do it good is very challenging,,
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


I learned how to fly in my small living room with a CP heli, I'm not new to precision.

I have been flying these "contraptions" for a bit over 20 years now. I used to fly 3D a lot in the early 2000s, while I flew IMAC pattern with planks. I was hooked on precision competition. About 4 years ago, I stopped flying Planks for fun and competition and focused entirely on my heli flying.

I eventually felt that I was wasting time and money trying to keep up with the latest crop of "sim wonders" and the evolving state of 3D flying. At the same time, the contest bug started biting again, and so I dove into heli competition flying.

While dedicated, quality practice can get a bit tedious at times (not unlike a musician mastering a score), I find the rewards in "FAI" flying much more tangable. It's very nice to get compliments from both heli and airplane pilots after they witness constant and smooth control of a helicopter, even when I think I was all over the place I have several trophies on my wall, illustrating my accomplishments...of which I'm very proud. Each one brings back specific memories of contests and new and old friends.

I still like to bang the sticks around and do some "hard" sport flying and such, but the true test for me has been in heli precision/pattern flying.

Also, as has been said before, crashes only happen if there's a mechanical or electrical failure. You tend to wear out machines, also. Some things that are often checked during a 3D crash rebuild, go unnoticed on an FAI bird for a long time. We have to make ourselves abide by maintenance schedules during which we do preventative tear-downs and rebuilds. This, I can live with
05-31-2008 09:59 PM
 
 
Mavrik1
Senior Heliman
Location: USA

So people enjoy doing and watching this? When I fly a 90 on a sim, it practically hovers by itself.

Wayne Mann F3C Schedule A Hovering Manuevers
04:42


The bottom line is having fun.
05-31-2008 11:39 PM
 
 
JAGNZ
rrProfessor
Location: Auckland, New Zealand

I respect the skill but it doesn't interest me. Hard sport and 3D are the only type of heli flying that do.

Jason Greenwood

Fury Extreme, T700N, 2X T600N's, Trex 500, DSX9 2.4
www.3dheli.co.nz
05-31-2008 11:46 PM
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
TachyonDriver
Veteran
Location: Chipping, Lancs, UK

Until a full size gunship hovers inverted outside my house, then I'm not interested in flying 3D. I DO like to watch 3D, however I do like to watch helis flying anyway.

Full size helis CAN loop and roll, which I am hoping to do with my Raptor 30 V1. I can do those manoeuvres on the sim with the collective set to +9 -2.5 so there's no reason why I can't do them in real life (the turbine Hughes 500 on Phoenix sim loops and rolls too ) I guess my available funds, my wife's reaction if I crash again, and my desire to fly an intact heli currently override the aerobatic challenges - yep I'm scared to push the envelope that far just yet.

Go here to see some full size helicopter aerobatics (near the bottom, after the crash vids)
http://www.griffin-helicopters.co.uk/videos/

Tach.

Little Spinning Bundle of Joy® DON'T DISS THE DINO!!
05-31-2008 11:51 PM
 
 
ErichF
Key Veteran
Location: Odessa, FL 33556 (Tampa Area)

Quote 
So people enjoy doing and watching this?

Yeah, go figure that golf is a multi-billion dollar industry...I can't imagine why, myself. I mean, people enjoy doing and watching that?


Quote 
When I fly a 90 on a sim, it practically hovers by itself.

Maybe it's time for you to join the real world, and put the sim away for awhile


I suppose you missed the "subtle" winds in the trees and brush in the background. I filmed that video, myself, and competed at that contest. The winds were blowing 10-15G20.

Maybe program those winds in your sim and see what you can do?
06-01-2008 12:23 AM
 
 
Mavrik1
Senior Heliman
Location: USA

I find it easy to fly my (real) 450 in 10 mph winds.

I always fly with 10-15 mph winds on the sim, I also have the sim constantly changing wind directions. This simulates my real wind condition.

The bottom line is having fun.
06-01-2008 12:40 AM
 
 
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