RunRyder - CS "nose over" problem

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JR Heli Vibe - Airskipper - Sylphide - Venture > CS "nose over" problem

drtoothfixer
Senior Heliman
Location: Richland, WA

I have my CS so ready to abuse! I have it set up as well as any heli I've built, and there have been a few. It flies so nicely. Smoothe.....

One problem. When given forward cyclic (such as from a hover, or doing aerobatics), once it gets past say 45 degree nose down angle (or even less) it sort of "pushes itself over" nose first. it's a very odd sensation! I had another guy at the field fly it, and it felt very strange to him, too. It's the only Vigor at our field, so I'm not sure how it compares to others. All cyclic responses feel great. Just forward sort of "pitches" the machine over!

Vigor CS, YS80, Mav 700's, 9C, 120 degree ccpm, gy601, gv1, MA black paddles.

Any thoughts?

Trevor
Vigor CS, YS80, Mav 700's, 9C, 120 degree ccpm, gy601, gv1.

04-12-2003 Over year old.

Dino Spadaccini
Key Veteran
Location: USA

drtoothfixer

need more info like what radio and are you using 140ccpm stuff like that and set up

Team Thunder Tiger
Team Futaba
CY Enterprises
Morgan fuel
Rev max
TEAM MAPTERGY

04-12-2003 Over year old.

HOMEPAGE

drtoothfixer
Senior Heliman
Location: Richland, WA

at the bottom

Dino,
At the bottom of my post is all that information. 9C, 120 degree ccpm, etc...

Also, I'm using the short flybar with the MA black paddles. does anybody out there use the long 610mm flybar, and if so with which paddles and for what type of flying?

Trevor

04-12-2003 Over year old.

drtoothfixer
Senior Heliman
Location: Richland, WA

anyone?

Anybody out there flying the CS have the same response when going nose over?

I have checked the balance, and with the tank 3/4 full, it is perfectly balanced nose/tail.

Trevor

04-13-2003 Over year old.

corey11
Elite Veteran
Location: Bay Area, California

I dont really understand what your saying, but im going to try to help.....

Do you happen to have any elevater - throttle mixing on?
Are all the links the same exact length?
Do you have all the ball links in the same holes in the servo horns?
Check to see if one servo gets to its end point faster to.....
Do you have any expo in one servo and not the others??
Are the dual rates all the same for each servo?

Do a ground test. push your elavater stick foward all the way really quick, check to be sure all the servos stop at the same time.

Do the same thing as above, but next look at the throttle to see if it moves at all. if it does, you have a elavater to throttle mix on. The reason im talking about the elavater to throttle mix is because it sounds like your head speed picks up a little bit. but i noticed you have a gv-1. try turning it off and see what its like. are the blades tracking?

If all fails, go to www.curtisyoungblood.com and ask him

04-13-2003 Over year old.

HOMEPAGE

drtoothfixer
Senior Heliman
Location: Richland, WA

none of the above

Corey, thanks for the reply, but none of the above is happening. All links are identical, there is NO MIXING.

I am wondering if it's a problem of excessive elevator, or a flybar/paddle combination problem.

I have found that I have a great deal of binding in the elevator when I have my swash all the way up. I have heard that the Vigor has some binding issues. I reduced the elevator and aileron AFR, and in my idle up modes I reduced my collective end point from +11 to +9, which seems to reduce the binding. I really want to fly, and try out this setup. I also put my gray paddles back on to see how they work.

Trevor

04-14-2003 Over year old.

corey11
Elite Veteran
Location: Bay Area, California

I dont know, im thinking it has to be a problem with you.....maybe your not used to the smooooootttthhh ness

Did you go to curtises site and ask him?

04-16-2003 Over year old.

HOMEPAGE

drtoothfixer
Senior Heliman
Location: Richland, WA

not at CY yet

I don't have the heli totally dialed in yet. When I do, I'll see if the problem still extists. Do you have a problem with your linkages binding? I have mine set to 0 degrees at half stick, with the swash level.

At full positive (around +10 to 11) it binds quite badly in full forward/rear elevator. The same problem exists for aileron, but not quite as severe. is there something I am missing? I had heard the CS had some issues with binding at full throws. What can I do to get around this, or is there anything I can do?

Also, how many degrees of elevator and aileron do you have in your blades? If you put your pitch to 0, then give full elev or ail and put the pitch guage on, how much pitch are you getting for ail and elev?

Thanks!!

Trevor

04-16-2003 Over year old.

Secret Squirrel
Key Veteran
Location: New Zealander living in Melbourne, Australia

If you're at +11 to -10, you're at the full range of throws for the CS. This is what I'm at on mine and it took a lot of work. Be careful at full negative that the swash doesn't rub on the mainshaft collar too.

I took a dremel tool to mine and scolloped out the head so the flybar arms wouldn't hit it.

I run 5.5 degrees of cyclic pitch on mine.

I brought the upgraded pitch arms for mine (ball bearing ones) and they were terrible fit wise. As you tightened them up they'd bind up. This was due to the shaft that goes through the bearings with the bolt inside it being too short.

Si

-------------
Simon Lockington

04-16-2003 Over year old.

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corey11
Elite Veteran
Location: Bay Area, California

im running only +9 to - 9 with no binding. it rolls, ad flips over quite easily to

04-16-2003 Over year old.

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DavinChevalier
Heliman
Location: Overland park .Ks

CS nose over problem

DRtoothfixer We run our Vigors at 10 + 10- and about 11 in hold . is the binding on the swash I came in with the dremel and ground out the swash where the gray links hit .small rounded cut by ball on swash stoped the binding . The Vigor should not nose over !!! I like a hands off hover and if trimed right will do what you ask ..Hope it helps .Davin Chevalier

04-17-2003 Over year old.

drtoothfixer
Senior Heliman
Location: Richland, WA

I have +10 and -10 in mine right now. My swash doesn't even come close to the bottom collar. Should it? I haven't seen anoter Vigor yet, so I have nothing to compare to. To take care of the binding, I shortened the links between the flybar control arms, and the mixing base, loosened the flybar arms, moved them so everything was level, and it doesn't bind at all now, and seems to do very well with 6 degrees of cyclic even at full positive collective.

As for the "nose over" problem I was having. It wasn't in a hover that it would do this. it hovered nicely. Just once you gave it enough forward cyclic, it would "over react". For example, it will do a forward flip so fast, and a back flip was more normal. But...

I think I may have found
the problem. I adjusted the end point of the elevator
servo in forward cyclic. It looked like it went too far, and I made some changes to the overall elevator and
aileron throws via the radio. Also, the metal arm
setup for the elevator had some strange "slop" in it.
the two set screws outside the frame were nice and
tight, but the elevator arm still had way too much
slop. The little white link could move about 3-4mm up and down without moving the control arm outside the frame. So, I took it all apart, re-tightened it all, and
the slop that was there is gone. I am heading to the
field to try it out right now.

Thanks to all!

Trevor

04-19-2003 Over year old.

Dr_Crash
Veteran
Location: Keller, TX

Stupid Question??

Are you running 140° or 120° CCPM with what radio.

Errrrr.

Nevermind, I wished I had read your first post more clearly.
Are you running the correct setup for 120°. Short Balls and the correct bell crank positions?

Chris

04-19-2003 Over year old.

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drtoothfixer
Senior Heliman
Location: Richland, WA

It's alive!!!!

Ok, Whatever the hell was wrong with the elevator, and it's slop, was the apparent culprit.

I took her out today, nobody at the field, 70 degrees, sunny, no wind. So strange. Anyway, Had the place all to myself. I fired up the YS 80 and it yearned to take flight!

I can't believe how smoothe this thing flew today! I had my black MA paddles back on, 480mm flybar, weights all the way in, and she flew soooooooo nicely!

And I thought I had double checked everything. Probably one little set screw not being totally seated caused me all this grief! Lesson learned the hard way!

Hope you all have a great Easter weekend!

Trevor

04-20-2003 Over year old.

corey11
Elite Veteran
Location: Bay Area, California

Dont fly with that 480 flybar......on alot of people(curtis youngblood also) say do not fly with them. fly with the 500mm. ...why?? some have bronken in flight in the past....

04-20-2003 Over year old.

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drtoothfixer
Senior Heliman
Location: Richland, WA

thanks

Thanks Corey. I'll order a new one ASAP. I ordered some new 700 V blades today, version 2. Anybody besides Curtis try them yet?

04-20-2003 Over year old.

DavinChevalier
Heliman
Location: Overland park .Ks

CS vose over problem.

Drtoothfixer I have 2pair 700mm 720mm there great . My CS now has the 700mm that weight 193 gram they auto great with very little blade slap on flybars 500mm with V paddles and if you fly very hard change the flybar once a month. Davin

04-20-2003 Over year old.

drtoothfixer
Senior Heliman
Location: Richland, WA

flybar changeout

Do you really change your flybar every month? I've heard of them breaking before, but some of our guys fly Furys like crazy, hard 3d, and I've only seen one flybar break.

Anybody else change them that often, or is it a special need for the vigor?

Trevor

04-21-2003 Over year old.

gasbag
Heliman
Location: Hicksville L.I.

Nose over

drtoothfixer,

I have the same problem Originally i thought it was the grey paddles so i swaped them out with a pair of Kalt paddles. No change both times i was running the 600mm flybar. every thing in my system is glass smooth & no binding. So, your not alone. If i ever figure it out ill let you know

04-28-2003 Over year old.

drtoothfixer
Senior Heliman
Location: Richland, WA

gasbag

I figured out the problem already. It was that the elevator aluminum arm setup had slop in it. I explained in a previous post exactly what happened. If you are having the same symptoms, loosen your set screws and the nut that holds the elevator control together, be sure the inner set screw is seated all the way in the shaft, then retighten it all. After I did that, the problem went away and she's flying perfectly now!

Trevor

04-29-2003 Over year old.

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JR Heli Vibe - Airskipper - Sylphide - Venture > CS "nose over" problem

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