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Midland Helicopters . HeliProz . ZoomsHobbies

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Main Discussion > Finless Bobs tail setup.
 
 
whoamis
Heliman
Location: san francisco, ca

yeah, i think the topic is gnarly because there are two different considerations...

- if you set up dead center, and your gyro provides equal travel on both sides of center, your tail control slider can traverse the entire range, which allows the gyro to do more, at least in one direction, if it needs to, which has to be good.

- if you set up 'neutral for hover', then (absent any pitch changes, wind, or other dynamic considerations) you have "symmetric non-linearity" of the control mechanism around the hover point. That sounds good, but perhaps less important for the gyro than for your thumbs (as on the cyclic/collective).
05-29-2008 07:22 PM
 
 
nmrs
Senior Heliman
Location: Austin, TX

Quote 
if you set up dead center, and your gyro provides equal travel on both sides of center, your tail control slider can traverse the entire range, which allows the gyro to do more, at least in one direction, if it needs to, which has to be good.

This is the best argument I have heard yet for centering the slider. You are always going to be limited on one side (whether you center it or not), but why handicap the gyro's ability to correct in the other direction unnecessarily?
05-29-2008 07:48 PM
 
 
ckoelliker
Key Veteran
Location: St. Simons, GA

Quote 
This is the best argument I have heard yet for centering the slider. You are always going to be limited on one side (whether you center it or not), but why handicap the gyro's ability to correct in the other direction unnecessarily?


Because to pirouette to the left you do not need any help from the tail. If you have ever thrown a tail blade, you will see that the helicopter spins to the left just fine without any help from the tail.
05-29-2008 07:51 PM
 
 
pgoelz
Senior Heliman
Location: Rochester MI

But if the gyro and tail servo can drive the tail pitch slider from one mechanical stop to the other without binding, what does it matter to a heading hold gyro where the servo arm is when hovering? Unless as I stated above, the gyro assumes hover = servo centered and produces less than optimal response when that is not the case. That is hinted at in the Futaba instructions but I can read them several ways..... and that is only one of them

Paul

Paul Goelz
Rochester MI USA
http://www.pgoelz.com
05-29-2008 08:22 PM
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
tchavei
rrProfessor
Location: Portugal

This whole thread should be resumed in two sentences:

If you have a gyro that doesn't care about center point, you can setup the tail as you wish as long as you use enough resolution and don't have bindings at the extreme (read 611, 401, spartan, etc)

If you happen to have a gyro that is sensitive to the servos neutral point then you must trim that tail mechanically in rate mode for a steady hover (read LogicTech 6100).

Now my personal opinion is that one should trim the tail independent of the gyro used. Why? Its not about servo life (its always under load no matter what), its not about performance (those gyros that don't give a damm about center point work the same whenever you trim it or not) its just about safety. Most of us use an assigned switch to flip between rate and HH mode (I use it so can take my heli to and from the flight line without the tail kreeping to max deflection and get suprises during take off). Are you 100% sure you will never accidentally hit that switch during flight? Even if you don't use such a switch, are you 100% sure all your flight modes have the same gyro setting? Are you really really sure about that?

If seen a good friend dump a new Raptor Titan because instead of switching into idle-up1, he switched into idle-up2 (never used before) and as it happens, the gain on that flight mode was rate mode... a quick spin and boom, it was in the ground. If he had trimmed the tail the worst that would have happen would be slow piro or a drifting tail in some maneuvers.

my two cents
Tony


--------------------
"Perfection and patience usually walk side by side..."
05-29-2008 08:31 PM
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
BarracudaHockey
rrMaster
Location: Orange Park FL

That comes down to attention to detail.


AMA 77227
http://www.jaxrc.com
05-29-2008 09:09 PM
 
 
tchavei
rrProfessor
Location: Portugal

So does trimming for a steady hover Even if it works just as good as leaving it centered, it doesn't hurt so whats the problem spending 3 minutes hovering and adjusting that tail pushrod?

Tony


--------------------
"Perfection and patience usually walk side by side..."
05-29-2008 10:07 PM
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
BarracudaHockey
rrMaster
Location: Orange Park FL

Your piro rate suffers on a 450

Single limit adjustment, 401 limitations, tail throw on a 450, you know, the whole point of the thread


AMA 77227
http://www.jaxrc.com
05-29-2008 10:24 PM
 
 
tchavei
rrProfessor
Location: Portugal

Oh, I kinda missed that

Tony


--------------------
"Perfection and patience usually walk side by side..."
05-29-2008 10:26 PM
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
fenderstrat
Elite Veteran
Location: Aston,Pa

Quote 
From: support Futaba (support@hobbico.com)
Sent: Sun 6/01/08 1:09 PM
To:

Security scan upon download
xxxxxx ...pdf (246.0 KB)
Thank you for your recent e-mail.

The correct way to set up the GY401 is explained in the manual. I have attached a copy to this email.

Sincerely,
John G.
Product Support Lead Technician
Futaba Programming Technician
Great Planes Model Distributors
www.realflight.com
NO AUTORESPONDER



I e-mailed futaba and asked about which set up procedure is correct....the above is the response I got

here is the e-mail I sent
Quote 
maureen simkiss <> 5/27/2008 7:05 PM >>>
could you please settle a debate for me??????...I keep reading on internet forums that in order to set up a 401 you do not need rate mode...you center the tail pitch slider(helis) set it to HH and go..is this true ???and is this an accepted set up procedure..if not please explain with as much detail as possible why not...thank you nick...

PerformancePlusRC field rep
COMPASS helis field rep
Mini Titan/SE
HBK2
Futaba FASST
06-01-2008 11:05 PM
 
 
BarracudaHockey
rrMaster
Location: Orange Park FL

Stock answer. Did you follow that up with "Do you actually fly helicopters?"


AMA 77227
http://www.jaxrc.com
06-01-2008 11:25 PM
 
 
fenderstrat
Elite Veteran
Location: Aston,Pa

shall I?.....I was actually curious if they are even aware of this technique...and since I took the time to e-mail Just figured I would share the response.....I fully know this will change nothing about this discussion nor change ANYONES mind......I am actually considering buying another 401`(sold my other one), so I can try this again and see for myself...I tried it before but it didnt work...but if all these people swear by it..it must work

PerformancePlusRC field rep
COMPASS helis field rep
Mini Titan/SE
HBK2
Futaba FASST
06-01-2008 11:34 PM
 
 
pgoelz
Senior Heliman
Location: Rochester MI

I guess more to the pont is..... does doing it by simply centering everything NOT work.

Paul

Paul Goelz
Rochester MI USA
http://www.pgoelz.com
06-02-2008 01:29 AM
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
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Main Discussion > Finless Bobs tail setup.
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