RunRyder - CAA new regulation proposals

rrTV-PHOTO

New HD TV

HOME rrTV-PHOTO GALLERIES MY GALLERY HELP-FAQ

myHOME PM pmRR MEMBERS 302 ONLINE 19 EVENTS SEARCH REGISTER START HERE

9 pages [ << < 6 7 ( 8 ) 9 NEXT >> ]

5725 views

TOPIC CLOSED

Advantage Hobby	.	Revolution Models	.	CarbonXtreme
	.		.

Aerial Photography and Video > CAA new regulation proposals

ki-gas
Senior Heliman
Location: All over Europe

Yes, 8 times, last in 2006.

Carrier pigeon ............. I don't think so!!!

08-14-2008 01:12 AM

patrickegan
Veteran
Location: Sacramento, CA

No word back yet from Mr. Whittaker, looks like you UK guys are going to get approval American style.

08-30-2008 08:34 PM

HOMEPAGE

coffman
Senior Heliman
Location: NL

If you mean 'YOU' have not heard from Mr. Whittaker, why the hell should you, you are not registered with the CAA. The review starts at the end of this month so you don't know what the fcuk you are on about.

I've tracked you on various forums where you clearly just stir the Sh1t, I see you have been thrown off some too. You are bad news for the US AP scene and the UK certainly does not want you sticking you snitch in.

You do not represent the UK AP/UAV scene and you certainly have no right to speak on our behalf to our authority so take a hint and BUTT OUT of UK affairs.

08-31-2008 12:57 AM

Bell Bloke
Key Veteran
Location: England

I've been a little slow on the uptake here......
And I see Coffman you have beaten me to it, because I too have had enough. I've looked at Mr Egans self promotion on various sites etc and seen his various 'contributions' on the net. I am very, very underwhelmed and concerned.............

SO:

To Patrickegan, will you please ‘Cease and desist!!’ You are not from the UK, you are nothing to do with the UK, you don’t do AP any more stop your political posturing! What are you trying to do? What is your interest in us, the UK? Are you trying to position yourself in a way that would mean that you and the RCAPA would the organization to give us future accreditation and qualifications for flying AP here in the UK?
I suspect that you are, behind the scenes presenting the under 7kg limit fliers in the worst possible light so as to further your case with the British CAA. This would make things bad for everybody.
I am also growing tired of your bloody juvenile buzzwords and rhetoric, I quote:

FACE TO FACE INTERACTION (means in English) ‘Talking’

INTERFACING (means in English) ‘Talking’

AIRSPACE INTERGRATION ISSUES
INTERNATIONAL HARMONISATION
VERY FLUID TECHNOLOGY (in English} ‘That’s oil, isn’t it?’ Oil, is a very fluid technology…………
HAIL MARY (in English) ‘GOD KNOWS!!’
AIRSPACE STEAKHOLDERS (in English) ‘Aviators who like a bit of Steak’
And many, many more!
What’s more I’m also tired of your constant bloody PONTIFICATING (in English) ‘Preaching’

So please, ‘Cease and dentist’ because I’m grinding my teeth here.

Kind regards Bell Bloke.

PS. Thankyou Ki Gas, Coffman and Hi-Spy for flushing out this ‘Representitive’ who I see as a potential cause of trouble for us in the UK.

High Spy are correct in saying, Quote:

‘All representation by RCAPA (Patrick Egan) to the UK CAA should be made public, it is important that non members have access to all mails sent and replies. There is no requirement for a US based association to be lobbying on our behalf, especially as we have never asked them to do so.’

08-31-2008 11:12 AM

BigguyOz
Key Veteran
Location: Sydney, New South Wales, Australia

Well folks, what's your call on http://www.caa.co.uk/docs/33/CAP722.PDF?

Is it workable? Should I try to get the Oz equivalent to adopt the same?

Tony Stott
Scenefromabove.com.au
13.3m mast
AP hot air balloon
AP kites

09-02-2008 06:31 AM

HOMEPAGE

nocontrol1
Senior Heliman
Location: Melbourne, FL, USA

Interseting doc. I' liked these paragraphs in section 3, chapter2, page 2:

3.3 The 'Light UAV Systems' Policy
3.3.1 UAS with a UAV component operating mass of less than 150 kg may be eligible for
operation in accordance with this policy.
3.3.2 Light UAVs have mass and speed characteristics similar to those of model aircraft
used for recreational purposes. The CAA has reviewed the safety record of model
aircraft and concluded that UAS can be operated safely under a similar level of
regulation, provided that the UAS in question has no greater capability than the
majority of the existing model aircraft fleet and is subject to procedures and
limitations that are at least as demanding as those applied to model aircraft.
3.3.3 UAS that do not exceed the defined maximum speed and kinetic energy levels
representative of the existing model aircraft fleet may be exempted from compliance
with certain requirements provided that operational restrictions at least as demanding
as those applied to model aircraft are complied with. The applicable operational
limitations include: operating within visual line-of-sight (not more than 500 metres
from the UAV-pilot); not operating at a height exceeding 400 ft above the surface, and
not over or within a defined distance of any person, vehicle or structure not directly
involved in the operation of the UAS. (Further details of the Light UAS policy can be
obtained from reference paragraph 5 [4], which is summarised in Section 3, Chapter
1 of this document).

Rob D.

09-02-2008 01:59 PM

HOMEPAGE

patrickegan
Veteran
Location: Sacramento, CA

It’s all part of the Global Harmonization effort.

The CAP 722 document is a source document for the EUROCAE WG-73, and a reference document for the sUAS ARC. I am a member of the ICC, which has been tasked with making comments on the WG-73 paper, and I’m also on the sUAS ARC.

Snippets from CAP 722

Revision history
3 Impending Changes to Regulation
3.1 The CAA is in the process of a consultation with industry over a proposal to amend
the Air Navigation Order which will require operators of UAS with a UAV component
of less than 7 kg mass to obtain a CAA permission, as is currently the case for UAVs
with a mass of 7-20 kg. This proposal intends to ensure public safety by applying
operational constraints to UAVs of less than 7 kg mass, as deemed appropriate to the
type of operation envisaged and the potential risk to members of the public.
3.2 If the consultation exercise approves the proposal, it is likely that the ANO
Amendment will pass into law in December 2008. Potential operators of UAS with a
UAV component of less than 7 kg should ascertain, before commencing operations,
whether or not they are required to obtain a CAA permission.

Section 3 Chapter 1 Page 3

NOTE 5: Application for Approval to Operate
To expand on the statement regarding Qualified Entities made in Section 3,
Chapter 2, paragraph 4.1.1, the CAA would welcome the establishment of
Qualified Entities able to provide it with recommendations concerning the
design and build standards of UAS and to oversee the test flying of UAVs.
In the absence of such Qualified Entities, the CAA may accept
representations from other sources on a case-by-case basis where
acceptable evidence of their expertise is presented. In all cases the CAA
will expect to be presented with evidence that the standards applied are at
least as demanding as those applied by the Large Model Association to
large recreational model aircraft (20-150 kg).
The inclusion of an operations manual covering the procedures to be
followed for all envisaged operations of the UAS is a key requirement to
enable the CAA to accurately assess the application and the safety case it
makes, before deciding whether to grant an exemption or permission.

09-02-2008 05:17 PM

HOMEPAGE

ki-gas
Senior Heliman
Location: All over Europe

CAP722 was last ammended in April this year, have you only just round to reading and moaning about it. Maybe you should pay more attention to you own regulators publications, why do you find the UK's so interesting, do you really think the FAA give a **** about what the CAA do, do you really thing the US gives a **** about the UK?

'Global Harmonization', that's novel!!

CAA (under 7kg proposal) results are about to be published, probably not law until Feb. 2009.

09-03-2008 01:04 AM

patrickegan
Veteran
Location: Sacramento, CA

December 2008, guess you haven’t been reading the thread

09-03-2008 02:10 AM

HOMEPAGE

BigguyOz
Key Veteran
Location: Sydney, New South Wales, Australia

Actually Ki-gas, the people in the aviation authorities in different countries DO pay attention. I was personally told by a Mr Mal Walker of the Oz CAA/FAA equivalent, CASA, that he was hoping that FAA and CAA would adopt the Australian UAV regs as part of this global harmonization, which is not just an empty concept. In some circles in FAA at least, Mr Walker is thought of as a visionary.

If he gets his way, be very afraid.

So I am hoping the CAA regs are reasonable, and that FAA tries to align with them, and that in turn CASA steps into line. Unless that happens though, I will stick with mast, kite and balloon...

But it is reasonable that people outside UK have a real interest in the UK outcome.

Tony Stott
Scenefromabove.com.au
13.3m mast
AP hot air balloon
AP kites

09-03-2008 03:21 AM

HOMEPAGE

ki-gas
Senior Heliman
Location: All over Europe

Quote
the people in the aviation authorities in different countries DO pay attention

I just mentioned the U.S. no other country.

Don't need to read, spoke the the top man yesterday

- Feb 2009 old son - there's been a delay.

You're a professional with your finger in the pulse - American AP'ers, be very afraid!!!! I think you need new batteries for your laptop

09-03-2008 07:30 AM

patrickegan
Veteran
Location: Sacramento, CA

Well, now that you’re on the case we can rest easy…

09-03-2008 11:30 PM

HOMEPAGE

Bell Bloke
Key Veteran
Location: England

Ki-Gas sounds very much on the ball to me Mr Egan!

09-04-2008 10:34 AM

ki-gas
Senior Heliman
Location: All over Europe

Quote
Well, now that you’re on the case we can rest easy

Sarcasm is the lowest form of wit, try knitting, you might be better at it!

09-04-2008 12:25 PM

patrickegan
Veteran
Location: Sacramento, CA

Quote

Quote
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

the people in the aviation authorities in different countries DO pay attention
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I just mentioned the U.S. no other country.

Don't need to read, spoke the the top man yesterday - Feb 2009 old son - there's been a delay.

You're a professional with your finger in the pulse - American AP'ers, be very afraid!!!! I think you need new batteries for your laptop

Is this you working on some new socks?

On a serious note, are they also extending the time for public comment?

09-04-2008 03:30 PM

HOMEPAGE

ki-gas
Senior Heliman
Location: All over Europe

No.

09-04-2008 03:38 PM

Badllarma
Senior Heliman
Location: North West UK

It strikes me as a bit of a joke that the CAA are happy to fly over to the US and discuss with various bodies yet they cannot reply to emails and letters sent by operators in the UK??

I like others have heard nothing from them at all, and now they have extended the time? If they cannot have the common self discipline of replying to UK operator that have already been in touch why extend the time?

09-04-2008 03:44 PM

JohnC
Veteran
Location: East Yorkshire, England

I find the lack of response from the CAA very disappointing. It gives the impression that they are simply not interested in small operators - or what they think. This in turn can only lead to these same people deciding to do the same : ignore the CAA and keep on doing what they are doing now.

As I've said several times, the change to the ANO is not the issue. It's the list of conditions they intend to impose and this is not even available for comment yet.

I wonder if they will invite comments on this - or will they just decide themselves and ignore what people in the industry might have to say. On current performance, I think it will be the latter. I sincerely hope they don't just listen to people who push themselves forwards as 'advisers' but don't actually have experience of operating in the UK.

I wonder what the penalty will be for people caught doing AP without being registered with the CAA.

JohnC

09-04-2008 04:01 PM

HOMEPAGE

patrickegan
Veteran
Location: Sacramento, CA

Who wants to PM me a phone #? It’s time to dispel the nonsense…

09-04-2008 04:17 PM

HOMEPAGE

ki-gas
Senior Heliman
Location: All over Europe

Badlarma and John,

You should phone Ben Watkins on 1293 573476 or email him at ben.watkins.co.uk, they will speak to you.

The ammendment shcedule for the ANO has been delayed and it is very unlikely that the changes will take place until Feb 2009. The more people that phone the better although they are about to publish the results of the consultation.

The CAA asked for comments, if you asked questions in your correspondence you should have chased them up before the deadline. I would still phone and ask for an answer to your questions in writing, that's not an unreasonable request.

I get the feeling that the conditions will be the same as the current 7 - 20kg class but with possibly reduced minimum distances.

Behind closed doors again Mr. Egan. Post here, in the public domain what you would like to say to dispel this nonsense!

Anyway, what nonsense, that's a matter of opinion.

09-05-2008 08:44 AM

9 pages [ << < 6 7 ( 8 ) 9 NEXT >> ]

5725 views

TOPIC CLOSED

Midland Helicopters	.	HeliProz	.	ZoomsHobbies
	.		.

Aerial Photography and Video > CAA new regulation proposals

PRINT TOPIC

Advertisers

Subscribe to This Topic