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Thunder Power RC . Real Raptors . Mikado Modellhubschrauber

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Main Discussion > Rap 50 or Sceadu 50, any opinions?
 
 
panaewapoipound
Heliman
Location: Hilo, Hi.

Was thinking of converting the old Raptor to a 50 but the Sceadu looks nice also. Anyone have any opinions on these ships as far as comparable performance and reliability?
Thanks.
02-12-2002 Over year old.
 
 
JPBIII
Senior Heliman
Location: Birmingham,Al

Raptor or Sceadu

I fly both machines , I have only got 8 tanks through the Sceadu with an OS 50 .(Raptor has an OS 46 ) The Sceadu seems more stable and has less slop in it. Performance difference is hard to judge because of the different engines. The Sceadu is more expensive than the Raptor, keeping it maintained will probably be about the same.
02-12-2002 Over year old.
 
 
Greg Takacs
Veteran
Location: Fort Worth, TX

I used to be a Raptor 30 owner, and when I got the urge for more power, I was trying to make the same decision you're in right now. I opted for selling my Raptor 30 and getting a Sceadu 50. I think it cost a bit more but I don't regret it, not one bit. I am happy with the Sceadu and the amazing power of the OS50.
02-12-2002 Over year old.
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
DrScoles
Veteran
Location: Redmond WA

The sceadu was designed to handle the power of the 50. The Raptor was not. Hard to argue that the quality in a Hirobo kit is not superior to the TT. It is a little more expensive, but you do get what you pay for!

Mike
02-12-2002 Over year old.
 
 
beedub
Senior Heliman
Location: Arlington, Tx

Raptor or Sceadu

I owned both at the same time. The power is close but the edge probably goes to the Raptor, as far as power. But mind you both are way over powered with the .50. This is the only area that the Raptor has a small edge, as far as flying the Sceadu tracks better and feels more solid. I screwed up the other day and when adjusting the push rod on the tail I went too far out on one link. While showing off for a couple of kids I lost the tail at about 40 feet. I went into throttle hold and was going to make an easy everyday auto then it went behind the trees. Well, we made the funeral procession out to the wreckage. After a trip to the shop and $120 later she is back flying. BTW- $120 included the SAB Carbon Fiber 600's ($85), Main shaft, flybar,spindle, mixing arms, and the Head button. Not bad...

Needless to say, I really like the Sceadu and have since sold the Raptor.

Hope this helps,
02-12-2002 Over year old.
 
 
FlyinBrian
Veteran
Location: Illinois

Hi,

Curious, in what way was the sceadu designed for the power of a 50? The craptor had quite a few of the same features 3 years ago so what makes the sceadu so much better?

Lets avoid the quality thing though, I just paid $20 for a set of gph/rg/sceadu paddles and was not too impressed with the 4 g difference in weight and the fact that the hole was drilled way to large for the alluminum key to fit into (aka it had 5+ degrees of play untill I glued the alluminum key in). I had good luck with the freya paddles I purchased last yea, little scratched up for $25 but hey ya get what ya pay for..

So far I've heard about stripped main gears, short flight times, woof'n'poof, weak mixing levers, off centered balls on the swash, over heating problems, etc? Just things I've hear around the net, I am not saying the cRaptor does'nt have its problems.

Is the lower 8 to 8.5 to 1 ratio available for the 50's, larger fuel tank, etc, etc........

What is in there that makes it worth so much more $$$? Lets not get started on the Model Of the Year again

Crunch all you want, they will make more. Please use rr's pm feature to contact me.
02-12-2002 Over year old.
 
 
Greg Takacs
Veteran
Location: Fort Worth, TX

Here is my take on this (my opinion):

The Raptor 60 looks like a blown up Raptor 30 while the Sceadu 30/50 looks like a shrunk down Freya. When the Raptor first came out it was clearly designed for the 30 market as TT did not release the kit as a 30/50 kit initially. Then some guys with the need for power decided to hack the engine mount and fan and fit an OS46 in the little sucker. Then they also bought a broomstick and added longer blades to it. After their success some people decided to make aftermarket booms and engine mounts/fan units for the Raptor so the OS46/50 could be fitted.
This is when TT realized that they could make some money by selling their "official" upgrade kit which, I assume, they had no intention making in the first place.
This is when the Sceadu 30/50 a machine that was designed with the OS50 in mind came to the market. After this, TT realized that they better sell something close to it to stay competitive, so they added the 60 tail assembly, metal swash and all the other goodies to the Raptor 30 and started marketing it as a 50 heli.
This is why I, and many others, think that the Sceadu is heli that was designed for the 50 while it was an afterthought on the Raptor 30.
What makes the Sceadu 50 better?
- Swash from the Freya (I think the Raptor metal swash is not as beefy as the Freya swash)
- Tail from the Freya (The Raptor tail is nowhere near the quality of the Freya)
- Copper collar in the washout (you can get a decent washout unit for $15 for the Raptor)
- DTDS with delrin gears (This is an Altech promo, but should be included as I'm in the US)


As far as the quality goes, my Raptor had no QC issues, my clutch lasted over 100 flights and that's when I've sold it, who knows if it's still running. The Sceadu is a high quality machine that I am very happy with.
Sounds like you based your Hirobo quality assumptions on a badly molded paddle set.

And now for the urban legend issues:

(1) Stripped main gears: YES this one was an issue on some Sceadus (including mine) but Altech has an answer to it by giving the DTDS and 3rd bearing block to the Sceadu 50s from now on.

(2)woof n' poof: It seemed to be the issue with the MS600 blades. Interestingly I run these blades and I have not experienced the problem at all. (Let's not even talk about how bad the Raptor is in this department)

(3) off centered balls on the swash. This is the first time I've read it. Just because some people cant thread the ball into the swash right is not the manufacturer's fault.

(4) Overheating problems. There were some helos out there with this issue, HeliProz even started selling a fan shroud to remedy this. On mine I have the main needle two clicks in from one turn and no overheating what-so-ever. I know in two cases that the engine was defective and replacement of the engine (one OS50, one OS32) fixed the problem. In other cases it turned out to be bad needle adjustments. I haven't heard about people not being able to fix this "issue" by proper engine adjustment.

(5) etc. ? What other myths have you heard about?
02-12-2002 Over year old.
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
Ken B
Elite Veteran
Location: Phoenix, AZ

Simply said:

I have owned the Raptor 30 and a Sceadu 30. I prefer the Sceadu

I presently only own a Sceadu 50 and love it. I can also honestly say I would never own another Raptor again.

Oh and I did win a Raptor on this very forum... Oh and I traded it for a Sceadu instead....

You be the judge. I'm not arguing I am just stating my preferences.

Go SCEADU! Rah Rah sis boom BAH!

Ken B
02-12-2002 Over year old.
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
DrScoles
Veteran
Location: Redmond WA

The blade fluttering problem was attributed to two things. People not reading the directions and leaving the little metal plates off of the collective servo and, MS blades. I was night flying my Freya last week with MS blades and It was fluttering on every descent... Threw on a pair of V-blades...problem solved. MS blades are flexible, and a lot of people say have a poor cg...

The gear problem real or imagined has been made a moot point with the addition of the third bearing block and delrin gear. Thanks Altech for quickly addressing this by giving us a great upgrade and getting rid of blades that we probably wouldn't use! Great customer service

I've never experienced overheating with mine... I would attribute half of those complaints with people running too lean...

The head on the Sceadu is a shrunk down version of the Freya. It just seems like a lot more thought was put into this design... I think its a good idea to shrink a bigger ship, but doing so the other way ain't happening... The Rap60 was the singlemost frustrating element of this hobby for me! I couldn't wait to get one and I paid the price when I did! TT should have never used us as beta testers... Dabling told me how they were jamming boxes together to get a shipment ready 3 weeks before the orginal ship date... The whole thing went that way... I've heard the V2 is better, but I learned my lesson...

I haven't put enough fuel through my Sceadu to have a solid opinion, but I've put over 80 gallons through Freyas and they rock!!!

Mike
02-12-2002 Over year old.
 
 
SemiArticulate
Veteran
Location: On Location

I am planning on a Sceadu after looking at what I wanted in my R50. The Sceadu became cheaper. I wanted a R50 when I started my research. Volkul had a post about what came with the Sceadu and I pulled out a calculator and said forget that idea, i'll just get a Sceadu. Even upgrading my R30 looked like a bad idea. I like my raptor a lot but I also really like my Freya. The best pilot at our field really pushes his R60 and it seems to be a nice ship. He broke his R30 (wasn't rocket city links) in flight but the R60 seems to take it well.

Just wright down what all you want on a piece of paper. Go to some online store and pull off the cost of each component (heli, upgrades, etc.) and compare. Look at each forum to hear about complaints and solutions and factor those into the cost. You'll come out with the best one for you. It might not be the same choice I made.
02-13-2002 Over year old.
 
 
FlyinBrian
Veteran
Location: Illinois

Hi,

The r30 was designed for a 30 but its more than sturdy enough for the 46/50 and 600mm blades, and it holds up well under those conditions. 10mm Main shaft, 8mm spindle, sturdy main frames, one way bearing, gears and etc..

Whats the big problem with slapping a broom stick on the back of a craptor and putting some bigger 600mm blades on it and slap in some tim taylor horse power? Only negative I've found so far is the thrust bearings will wear out in a year and a half instead of a couple of years. But you still end up with a light weight 50 size heli that is a blast to fly and so far the 4 I have owned hold up extremly well to the abuse.

I do like the driven tail that they decided to include now, the washout with the bushing is nice but is it made of a different plastic than the mixer arms? I've tried ricks split gear arrangement but it keeps gaulding up and locking (its been machined as recomended), is the sceadu's any better?

Thrust bearings in the tail? Thank you, I would of like to seen two bearings for the price though

Adjustable bell/hiller ratios sound good but I find I never actually use them. I do like the idea of the paddles. I had read somewhere (rotory I believe) that the balls on the inner swash are on a different height of the outer balls which would cause differential movement and some coupling between controls.

We can discuss the sh**** swash included with the rappy but is it any worse than a single sided aileron link? Either way you end up with slop, just too different ways of achieving it.

Between the kyosho, thunder tiger and hirobo plastic fantastic models I've seen and work on I just dont see the difference in the quality of the parts. Do ya'll mean difference in design as being difference in quality? Personally I'd call that a better design rather than better quality.

I may be a little hard on hirobo for the sceadu paddles I purchased but considering they are two of the most important parts on the heli I thought I was being fair.

I really just wanted to hear what the true differences where instead of just one sentence hype. Just curious, my shelf allways has room for one more, 3 different manufactures so one more would'nt hurt. I just really hate to shell out some $$$ to find out I am exactly where I started..........

Crunch all you want, they will make more. Please use rr's pm feature to contact me.
02-13-2002 Over year old.
 
 
jbrundt
Veteran
Location: St. Charles, MO

I guess I'll jump in the pool here.......

I have an R60 V2 and love it!!!!!! No regrets on buying one and I'd buy another in a heartbeat.

That said, I also have a Sceadu 50 on the way from Gr8 Lakes. I am very much looking forward to building and flying this heli. It will be my second Hirobo since my Shuttle ZX many years ago. Greg and Jeff have both done a great job of helping me figure out what is what with the Sceadu. I have read all the pros and cons about the Sceadu and from what I have seen the only drawback is the cost. But then you get what you pay for. I'll fly my Sceadu with the stock 570mm blades that are coming with it and I'll also add the 3rd bearing and DTDS. With an OS50 in it things should be just fine.

I will have progress reports on my web site like I did with the R60 so I'll let everyone know how it goes. Now if I can just get a Sceadu50 file for my CSM V10 sim I'd be happy

Jeff
02-13-2002 Over year old.
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
SemiArticulate
Veteran
Location: On Location

Auger, I've not had the lock up on Rick's autohub. I assume your talking about the one for the Raptor? I did wonder why they did not make it out of bearing bronze. Cost I guess. Still would be cheaper than a heli falling out of the sky. In fact I might redo the thing using that material. When did you start having problems with it? I have had mine on for a few months now and so far so good but would like to ensure there are no problems.
02-13-2002 Over year old.
 
 
Greg Takacs
Veteran
Location: Fort Worth, TX

Auger, you did bring up some valid points, and your question about weather the Sceadu is a better design instead of better quality, I think the two kind of go hand in hand. The Sceadu being 2 years newer machine it had more time to mature. Also if I have to choose between something made in Japan or Taiwan I'd rather go with the Japaneese one .

The aileron design on the Raptor is really nice, it has been "borrowed" from the Bergen line, it is in no questions one of the best designs out there, I will not argue with you on that one. The only other one that is probably even better is the 45 degree swash control that is patented by and found on the higher models of the Schluter line (Milli2, Mosquito Expert).
A sloppy swash is till worse than a not perfect, yet well thought out and inherited aileron control of the Freya.

The Sceadu Auto hub is smooth as silk, the delrin gears ar machined like the Eagle/Freya ones and the gear mesh is perfect.
02-13-2002 Over year old.
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
Ken B
Elite Veteran
Location: Phoenix, AZ

Just to be the devils advocate:

I like the Aileron design on the Sceadu/Freya. It's proved it's self just fine in the Freya line.

Auger, you want valid reasons for switching. I'd like to offer as many as I know.

Cut and pasted from a work sheet I have made:

Raptor vs Sceadu

I have owned both a Raptor and a Sceadu.
Built 3 Raptors and 3 Sceadu

I prefer the Sceadu.

Why?

Assy:
Better clutch, no broken clutches here.
Tail boom support rods that won't crack. The combination of plastic ends and aluminum rods works well
More solid swash (It has the Freya swash)
Tail drive belt system is much better than the Raptor. Driven by a second gear rather than off the main gear/
Tail rotor hub assy is solid.
Tail mounted servo and control rod system. Very precise, once it’s set your good.
KIT comes with a muffler. This is a $25 savings if you don’t already have one.
Looks much better than the raptor. Need I say more?
GOOD Japanese bearings and not some cheap other bearings
In general there is an overwhelming sense of quality when building this kit compared to a Raptor. Hard to define this, but everything just fits nice and tight.

Flight:
easy flyer right out of the box, just follow the set up instructions.
I think it flies straighter in FFF than the Raptor
Hover is much smoother too (with the weights in the paddles, acro is better with brass weights removed)
Easier to set up than a Raptor, if no one is there to help you this machine, it can be done by any solo pilot.

Cost of repair is similar.

Is it worth the extra 100. You bet! Hirobo spent some extra time on the machines design and it shows. It is easily upgraded to a 50 size machine too. When it's a 50 WOW, it's impressive. Learn with it as a 30 or a really tamed out 50. You won't have any regrets with the Sceadu. At the end of the day when I compare how much I had to put into my Raptors as opposed to how little I have put into my Sceadu's. I save money with the Sceadu.

THe DTDS system added to the 50 kit is so smooth, with the delrina gears too. Man I love it!

Ken B
02-13-2002 Over year old.
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
Henrik Engert
Key Veteran
Location: Cedar Park, TX

Hey Auger

Hi Auger.

I can tell you if it's worth the money when I get it in March.

I'll be putting a OS50 in it right away.

I bought it because it is built for the 50 engine according to many people.

It also looks better than the Raptor

The quality of the parts are supposed to be better too.
02-13-2002 Over year old.
 
 
heliman41&1/2
Heliman
Location: Florida

Experts

You guys need to round up SENECA, he is an expert commentator in the area of comparing raptors and hirobo helis. He has the vast experience of providing useful comparisons to an unappreciative audience back in the RCO days. I rather enjoyed it. hehehehe

I know of 4 raptors with Ricks constant drive conversion and all work fine all of the time. I own 2 of them. I did have to do some minor machining to get a perfect fit. But, I like working on helis, so if isn't totally plug and play that is okay with me.

I have metal swash and metal mixing base on my raptor 30 and never had woof and poof. Not even any woof. I have used SAB, TG, Vblades, FK carbon and HiProducts blades. All worked to my satisfaction. All are 600 mm.

I have had 2 clutches break on the r30. I do think that is a weak point. One kit had the under the clutch shim. It broke. The liners were not worn out either.

I had a Shuttle zxx and like the r30 better. As for the Sceadu, I like the reviews and owner comments, so I am considering getting one. Not because I don't like the r30s, just because I am due for getting a new heli and want to stick with the 50 size.

Is there any other choice???

Oh yea, I had good luck with the Nexus' helis I started with too. I sold them......

Cheers!
02-13-2002 Over year old.
 
 
FlyinBrian
Veteran
Location: Illinois

Hi,

Semi, It gaulded up in the first 8 flights but that was before I turned down the auto hub some (instructions where updated a few days after I got mine).

It did lock up once after that and I pretty much gave up on it. I did clean it up and machine down another auto hub and installed it in someone elses raptor (see if it helped a wah wah, not really a wah wah but an odity during decents, turned out loose belt tension was the culprit)

It has'nt locked up on him yet but only has 10 flights on it. I do run my belt tension a lot tighter than he does which I beleive is the difference plus I left the tail drive pulley intentionally larger than the alluminum housing so it would be plastic riding on alluminum.

I dont think a brass bushing up top would help, the alluminum is way to soft to take the abuse. Heli hut has one that looks better but its hard to tell from a picture plus I dont know if the tt 85t gear can be made to fit it.

The sceadu defintely looks better than a raptor but the raptor frames look a lot better to me. The sceadu frames look kinda week down where the engine mounts, between the clutch bell and upper frame, back at the rear boom supports and where the lg mounts. Maybe they have some new fangled plastic or way of molding things but there just isnt much plastic in those areas. I'll see if they'll let me push, pull and flex the demo model up at toledo this year.

I realize the craptor was'nt designed for the 50's but has anyone considered it was overdesigned for the 30's and offers the same strength as other helis designed for the 50's? I had my doubts a year and a half ago when I put 600mm blades on my rappy 46 but everything held up and no problems since.

So far I've broken two clutches, #1 was 2 years old and broke after changing from an os46 to an os50 and I did not redo the liner/bell. #2 was 1 1/2 years old and broke after going from an os32 to an os50 and once again I did'nt redo the liner (I'm a slow learner). After re-lining both there have'nt been any trouble since but that really does'nt mean much till I get a summer's worth of flying on them. Two broken alluminum tail boom supports (different helis, over a year old, run'm till they break mentality). Worn out links and other misc maintenance.

I'll take a look at the sceadu up at toledo this year, so far I have'nt seen anything ground breaking enough to consider giving one a try. There are some pluses but there are also some minuses.

Hinke, Are you planning a vacation up here again this year?

Its nice to hear how great something is but Im the kinda person that does'nt beleive it untill I see it or at least hear some descriptive comments on it. Not much fun spending another $500 to end up with same old **** different way

Crunch all you want, they will make more. Please use rr's pm feature to contact me.
02-13-2002 Over year old.
 
 
Greg Takacs
Veteran
Location: Fort Worth, TX

Auger, the Sceadu frame mid section you were describing is probably the weak point of the heli. I think the 3rd bearing block helps the issue tremendously though. It gives more solid axis for the main shaft as well as rigidity in the mid-bottom section of the frame that the stock heli lacks.

If I were you I would not beleive the "hype" I put on here either, you need to go and check it out first hand. For me it was more economical to go with the Sceadu 50 instead of upgrading my Raptor. Since you already have 2 (?) Raptor 50s your case might be different, I definetely don't regret my choice.

Happy flying and keep it up in the air!
02-13-2002 Over year old.
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
DrScoles
Veteran
Location: Redmond WA

Brian,

You're just gonna have to go buy a Sceadu! As far as frame strength, mine has crashed twice, both times the frames and gear came out unscathed... And they were spectacular crashes!

Mike
02-14-2002 Over year old.
 
 
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Main Discussion > Rap 50 or Sceadu 50, any opinions?
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