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e-Electric Batteries & Chargers > Best BIG LIPO charger
 
 
MrMel
Elite Veteran
Location: Lidingo, Sweden

Quote 
which chargers would you be referring to? The only chargers that I'm aware of that do not bleed current through the balance taps is the FMA Cellpro line of chargers.


Schulze Nextgen 7.36-12 for me,

Expensive, Yep, had issues when they came, yep, but now, darn its a good charger.

It uses non bleeding integrated balancer, it can do 250watt, if you use a car battery it can re-store energy back to the carbattery, discharging at 250watt too.
05-18-2008 01:08 AM
 
 
Smiky
Heliman
Location: Ashland, KY - USA

I have a Mega Power 960SR and 12s Balancer up for sale in the classified section if any one's interested.

Mike

05-18-2008 02:33 AM
 
 
XCELL91
Heliman
Location: Atlanta, Ga

Thanks for the info guys... You are leading me in the right direction but I'm still a little lost. Maybe I should have been more specific. I'm looking at charging a 6s 5000Mah pack at 2-3C Are there any chargers out there that actually have the capacity to do this?

Here is the rundown of the chargers thus far:

TP 1010: 210 watts. Looks like I can get to 1.5C here. with the balancer this thing is running $300.

BC 10: 200 watts. $180.00

Mega Power: 180Watts. roughy $200.00

SCHulze 7.36: 250watts. $545.00

Icharger 1010b: 200watts. roughly $180.00

Hyperon 610duo: 180watts $269.00

Any more Ideas
Thanks
05-19-2008 04:40 PM
 
 
Smiky
Heliman
Location: Ashland, KY - USA

Just check the rated output, that will tell you what to expect.

Charger rated output, say 180W / pack voltage 25.2 volts = 7.14 amps maximum charge amps. It will be a little higher during the CA phase of the charge.

Most chargers are limited to 10 amps maximum charge rate, so you're limited to 2C charge rate on a 5000mAh pack anyway.

Mike
05-19-2008 04:57 PM
 
 
MJWS
Key Veteran
Location: Airdrie, AB - Canada

Two 610i's can run in sync mode for 12s. They are 250w each, and will charge your 6s pack at 2C i.e a full 10A. Without going down the megabucks route that is the most powerful solution. They are $169ish.

Mike
05-20-2008 12:39 AM
 
 
XCELL91
Heliman
Location: Atlanta, Ga

the 610i looks like it can only be networked to do 2 seporate packs... is there anything out there that has 300+ watts to zap a single 6s 5000mah pack at 2c?
05-20-2008 02:23 AM
 
 
Smiky
Heliman
Location: Ashland, KY - USA

As far as I'm aware 10 Amps is the maximum output available at the moment, so 2C will be your limit. That's not a bad thing as charging at 3c is only a few minutes quicker anyway.

Mike
05-20-2008 02:37 AM
 
 
MJWS
Key Veteran
Location: Airdrie, AB - Canada

The 250w 610i gets you to 10A on 6s.

The big robbe power peak infinity listed earlier is 20A and 315w. There really aren't many contenders over 300w, there just hasn't been demand for chargers that large before. The real thing driving them is A123's not big lipos.

Mike
05-20-2008 02:44 AM
 
 
Ace Dude
Elite Veteran
Location: USA

For high voltage/high current charging a lab grade CC/CV power supply is the most cost effective solution.



05-20-2008 03:17 AM
 
 
Smiky
Heliman
Location: Ashland, KY - USA

Not for Lipo's their not! Just not accurate enough for voltage critical applications, they work great for A123 though.

Mike
05-20-2008 03:23 AM
 
 
Ace Dude
Elite Veteran
Location: USA

Quote 
Not for Lipo's their not! Just not accurate enough for voltage critical applications, they work great for A123 though.

Um, no. A quality lab grade supply will be far more accurate than LiPo charger.



05-20-2008 03:50 AM
 
 
Smiky
Heliman
Location: Ashland, KY - USA

Um, You're a dangerous person to be around if you think its safe to charge a Lipo with a "quality lab grade supply".

This is direct from the Spec sheet of the very popular (for A123 users) MASTECH HY3020E:
Voltage indication accuracy: LED±1%+2digits, analogue display 2.5%
Current indication accuracy: LED±2%+2digits, analogue display 2.5%
Load regulation :
CV≤0.02%+10mV(I≤6A) CC≤0.5%+10mA(I≤6A)
CV≤0.1%+5mV(I>6A) CC≤0.5%+20mA(I>6A)

Now I suppose you could link it up to a high quality external balancer, but guess what, they are all limited to 10 amps too. Oh well...

Mike
05-20-2008 04:12 AM
 
 
Ace Dude
Elite Veteran
Location: USA

Quote 
Um, You're a dangerous person to be around if you think its safe to charge a Lipo with a "quality lab grade supply".

That's quite funny to call me dangerous when you don't know a thing about me....

Did I say the Mastech was lab grade? Ever hear of HP/Agilent?

Where are the specs for your charger and how accurate is it?



05-20-2008 04:29 AM
 
 
Smiky
Heliman
Location: Ashland, KY - USA

Quote 
That's quite funny to call me dangerous when you don't know a thing about me....

Did I say the Mastech was lab grade? Ever hear of HP/Agilent?

Where are the specs for your charger and how accurate is it?
You can try to get into a pissing match if you like, it doesn't change the fact that you offered BAD advice. If you don't see that then too bad.

And how are you going to balance packs when charging over 10 amps, I really would like to know.

Mike
05-20-2008 04:58 AM
 
 
MrMel
Elite Veteran
Location: Lidingo, Sweden

I use the combo Mastech 5020, Medusa poweranalyzer, Schulze profibalancer.

Medusa to get a more exact reading.
Balancer is a non bleed passthrough.

Works perfectly.
05-20-2008 06:30 AM
 
 
Ghia
New Heliman
Location: NM

no one has mentioned the Orbit chargers. I really like my pro.
05-20-2008 07:12 AM
 
 
fergus
Veteran
Location: Ireland

Like Mr Mel - I use the Mastech 5020, a 'wattsup' power analiser, a stopwatch and a set of linked 6s Bantam balancers for my 12s A123 packs charging at 20amps.

As already stated most if not all pass through balancers will only handle 10amps max current.

There is no way my method would be accurate enough for lipo. It could be used to take lipo packs to 90% or so which would be safer than trying a 100% charge. At the very least it would need to be constantly monitored which would require waiting by the power supply instead of flying which in my view would defeat the purpose of trying to fast charge in the first place. The current crop of external balancers will not be able to bleed current quickly enough to prevent a problem developing.

It is fine with A123 which tolerate small overcharging. Having used this method at the field for a few months now it is excellent for A123 which with the stopwatch does not require constant supervision. I would not advise it for Lipo packs and even with experience of the process I would not dare risk it.

Regards

Fergus

Regards

Fergus
05-20-2008 11:20 PM
 
 
MrMel
Elite Veteran
Location: Lidingo, Sweden

Fergus,

Im using it for LIPO with my Schuzle balancer not A123, and balancer rated 15amps.

So I can do true 3C charging on 12s 5000 packs.
05-21-2008 07:17 AM
 
 
fergus
Veteran
Location: Ireland

Mr Mel,

Is that balancer capable of terminating the charge if an excessive out of balance situation developes? If so it is a great setup.

What method do you use to decide when to end the charge process without exposing the lipos to excessive current or just 'feeding' the balancer?

Very interesting Mel. Cheaper than buying a powerfull charger + 40 amp power supply and alot more powerfull.

I know it is of course possible to use the CC CV method of a lab power supply to charge any lithium based battery but due to the small tolerance to over voltage which Lipos suffer I did not realise anyone was doing it at the field.

The method I am using would not work safely for Lipo as the balancers are not 'inline' with the powersupply and are not capable of bleeding currents over 1amp. One last question- How much was your balancer?

Thanks for the info

Regards

Fergus

Regards

Fergus
05-21-2008 10:17 PM
 
 
MrMel
Elite Veteran
Location: Lidingo, Sweden

Quote 
Is that balancer capable of terminating the charge if an excessive out of balance situation developes? If so it is a great setup.

Yes its a "inline" balancer so Positive cable running through it.
It will terminate if anything goes wrong or if you get a over-charge situation.

Quote 
What method do you use to decide when to end the charge process without exposing the lipos to excessive current or just 'feeding' the balancer?

Not sure what you mean there? Mastech 5020E is a CC/CV unit, as soon as it reaches target voltage it switches over to "Constant Voltage" stage, voltage wont go passed the target, Current start to lower itself, just like the normal off the shelf charges does.
If I want to end the charge before its full and abort the charge (and keep balancing) I do so by either lowering the voltage or using a button on the balancer.

Quote 
How much was your balancer?
Its a schulze so its expensive, around €200 (euro), however "its not just a balancer", it has PC interface, so you can record exactly whats going on, thats why I know it works without any fuzzy thing going on.


-
That said, 3C charging isnt really needed (IF something goes wrong, it will do so alot faster with 3C), I tend to run 2-2.5C, most gain is going from 1C to 2C anyway.
05-22-2008 03:21 AM
 
 
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