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HeliHobby . Ron’s HeliProz South . Century Helicopter

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Engines Plugs Mufflers Fuel > more bearing info,,
 
 
the Wasp
rrProfessor
Location: Vt

sorry for starting another post on this but I started to search bearings on-line and I said "the hell with it" and I called a large US bearing company and this is what I was told,,

note,,
keep in mind the guy I talked too is a modeler and owns both glow and turbine model engines,,


1) some quality bearing manufactures use only a Circle, Triangle, Oval or other markings to mark their bearing,

2) a quality bearing the size in our engine should be marked in some way, if it's NOT marked in some way we should question it's quality !!

2a) a stamped letter in ink such as a "C" on the outside race only specifies "Lot", it has nothing to do with brand or size or application, although if this letter is the only marking quality should still be questioned !!

3) Skidding "as some OS owners have reported",, Skidding is a preload problem, this means the bearing is NOT preloaded,,

3a) a simple shim between the bearing and crank will preload the bearing,, the thickness of the shim is to be determined by fit and trial, more or less this means you are on your own to figure-out how thick the shim should be, .010 should be more than what's needed, .004 should be closer to what's needed,,

4), a good quality bearing in the size we use in our engines with the correct preloading should not show any real wear until 29 hours of engine running time at 17,000 RPMs,,

4a) a quality bearing should last for 500 Million revolutions, yes 500 Million revolutions (if preloaded correctly),,


5) a quality "quality" SS bearing should have the same hardness as a Chrome Steel bearing "60 Rockwell",,

6) yes, if stock is low a bearing manufactures may buy stock from other manufactures, so if this manufacture buys stock then sells stock to a 3rd manufacture then there could be a problem in quality, specially if the bearing is NOT marked,,


so this is what I suggest to do when replacing a bearing,,

1) buy a good quality brand bearing that is marked,

1a) get a 60 Rockwell SS bearing so it wont rust,

2) add a .004 shim between the bearing and crank and hope for the best..

Jim
the wife wont let me get a Monkey !!,,, damm, can't have anything
05-09-2008 12:03 AM
 
 
BarracudaHockey
rrMaster
Location: Orange Park FL

The "coke can" mod (shimming the bearing) has been tried.

Bottom line seems to be, some engines eat bearings, some don't. Fuel, burning it out or not, rpm, mixture, etc have never been really pinned down as a cause.

Cheap bearings seem to hold up as well as 70 dollar bearings.


AMA 77227
http://www.jaxrc.com
05-09-2008 12:07 AM
 
 
the Wasp
rrProfessor
Location: Vt

""Cheap bearings seem to hold up as well as 70 dollar bearings""

well I don't know of anyone that has tried a $70 bearing in an OS 50, but if it did fail prematurely then I would questing it's preload,,

yes I remember the Coke Can post (s) and he had rather good luck,,, ummm, anyone know how thick the Coke Can material is LOL

Jim
the wife wont let me get a Monkey !!,,, damm, can't have anything
05-09-2008 12:15 AM
 
 
StillTryin
Senior Heliman
Location: Perth, Western Australia

Quote 
5-Million revolutions = 29 hours of engine running time at 17,000 RPMs

mmmm - 29 hours at say 8.5 minutes per flight = 203 flights. At say, 6 flights per weekend, that's 33 weeks.

While the above does not explain the very early bearing failures, perhaps we are expecting too much?
05-09-2008 05:02 AM
 
 
baby_zyklon
Key Veteran
Location: Singapore

at 17000rpm...running it for just 1hour would have already put over 1 million of revolution on the bearing, isn't it?

$70 bearing kit...
http://www.bocabearings.com/main1.a...duct&id=6488&n=*ENK-001C-HP

http://www.bocabearings.com/main1.a...duct&id=1955&n=*ENK-001C
05-09-2008 07:09 AM
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
StillTryin
Senior Heliman
Location: Perth, Western Australia

baby_zyklon - quite correct. I didn't check the Wasp's maths but will next time

That means we should only expect 35 or so 8.5 minute flights per bearing or about 6 weekends between bearing failures.

Quote 
a good quality bearing with the correct preloading in the size we use in our engine should not show any unusual wear until 5-Million revolutions,

Perhaps he meant 50 million.
05-09-2008 07:31 AM
 
 
the Wasp
rrProfessor
Location: Vt

"at 17,000 RPMs for 1 hour = 1 Million revolutions"

baby_zyklon,

yes your right, thank you, now that I think back he did say "1 Million revolutions in 1 hour" at 17,000 RPMs,, and he said a bearing should last for 500 Million revolutions, yes 500 Million revolutions (if preloaded correctly)!!

he did the calculation as we were talking and he came up with 29 hours before the bearing should show signs of any real wear (if preloaded correctly),, that sound right because I know of a guy that has over 40 gallons on an OS 32 heli engine..


I will edit my post above..

Jim
the wife wont let me get a Monkey !!,,, damm, can't have anything
05-09-2008 07:37 AM
 
 
v58 fuy
Senior Heliman
Location: UK - Tunbridge Wells, Kent

The issue of engine bearings I don't think will ever be properly resolved, however all I can say is:

1) I've had two Hypers who's bearings have needed changing pretty regularly, and all bearings have had no markings in terms of make/size etc...

2) I've got a TT53 which I've now had for 4 1/2 months and probably put 10-12 gallons through and the bearings are absolutely fine - they are also clearly marked NTN and some other writing.

The bearings size is the same in the Hyper and the Redline, but they are either definitely not the same spec, or the installed situation is very different, or I'm just plain lucky.

I have never run engines dry, always used same Magnum 20% fuel, run all my engines at 2100rpm headspeed, and I guess my tuning ability is probably classified as reasonable.

So no real logic to it all.

David
05-09-2008 09:40 AM
 
 
cyclic fever
Senior Heliman
Location: Seymour Indiana

Quote 
note,,
keep in mind the guy I talked too is a modeler and owns both glow and turbine model engines,,

Cha-Ching..another nickle...

LOL, you love to quote all these people we'll never talk to, that you think support your "OS is scamming us" theory, and simply refuse to listen to anyone who doesnt think its OS's fault.

I see now, a few dont want help solving their problem but just want to rant and bash OS and others that wont jump on their band wagon.
05-09-2008 07:22 PM
 
 
Ace Dude
Elite Veteran
Location: USA

Quote 
I called a large US bearing company and this is what I was told,,

Did the person you spoke to have any specific brands or suppliers to recommend?



05-09-2008 09:09 PM
 
 
the Wasp
rrProfessor
Location: Vt

cyclic fever,, I have given plausible info here, you on the other hand have just proved to the world that 1) you don't care !!,, and 2) you have proven you are nothing more than an instigator by contradicting yourself,,

first you say on the other thread it's not a problem it's just the nature of the engine, now you say it is a problem by saying ""I see now, a few dont want help solving their problem "" ,, and 3) if I talk about the problem or post or reply about it then I am trying to (quote) help solve the problem,, you MUST be an Idiot !!

""and simply refuse to listen to anyone who doesnt think its OS's fault."",, so what you are saying here is we are JUST supposed to take your word as the final word and JUST put up with replacing bearings 4 or 5 times a summer,,

""I see now, a few dont want help solving their problem ""

solving the problem is completely what all these threads are about !!!!!

"cyclic fever",, congratulation your unhelpful rants have just scooted you to my Ignore List !!

Jim
the wife wont let me get a Monkey !!,,, damm, can't have anything
05-09-2008 10:56 PM
 
 
the Wasp
rrProfessor
Location: Vt

Ace,, these are the bearing brands the guy suggested to look at Tinken, SKF, AST, or any quality brand bearing..


with the bearing photos I have seen of the skidding I am leaning to the preload thing, that's a plausible reason for the problem !!

Jim
the wife wont let me get a Monkey !!,,, damm, can't have anything
05-09-2008 11:01 PM
 
 
lightningrc
Key Veteran
Location: UK

Wasp I just pulled apart my unbranded bearing and was surprised that the outer race and balls are like brand new and the inner race looks like its been hammered hard.

Possible the steel is not hard enough on the inner race.

I understand y an engine might need a little preload on the bearing to stop it skidding in the races but should this not happen when the crank nut is torqued down ??
05-09-2008 11:35 PM
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
lightningrc
Key Veteran
Location: UK

Just thought about my question and can see now because of the crank design how the end float can be there.
05-09-2008 11:38 PM
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
lightningrc
Key Veteran
Location: UK

Probably if you dont knock the rear bearing in fully then build the engine and pull the crank in via the crank nut there should be preload on the bearing but you would have to be carefull you have not got too much as I should imagine this will over heat and wear them out fast also
05-09-2008 11:43 PM
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
the Wasp
rrProfessor
Location: Vt

well I hope OS is reading !!!

Jim
the wife wont let me get a Monkey !!,,, damm, can't have anything
05-09-2008 11:56 PM
 
 
Ace Dude
Elite Veteran
Location: USA

All of this nothing new. If you search the forums the OS 50 Hyper bearing issues have been going on for years so lets not reinvent the wheel. The Coke can mod is already several years old.

Just doing t a quick search I found some Coke Can Mod posts from as far back as August 2004.



05-10-2008 01:12 AM
 
 
lightningrc
Key Veteran
Location: UK

So its about time this issue was sorted , if guys dont speak up then nothing we get fixed.
05-10-2008 08:10 AM
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
killacamda1st
Heliman
Location: jax fl usa

dont know about $70 bearing,but i purchased a $42 dollar bearing here locally with the correct markings on them and use a fuel with more oil content and already have more flight time on it than i had with stock. im running them at 17500 or above
05-10-2008 03:05 PM
 
 
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Engines Plugs Mufflers Fuel > more bearing info,,
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