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Engines Plugs Mufflers Fuel > heehee hee YOU better do something OS !!!

the Wasp
rrProfessor
Location: Vt

an Enya 4 is very close to a 3, a plug closer to a 6 with an Idle Bar is what I would be looking for..

Jim
Buzz Buzz Buzz

05-16-2008 10:59 PM

impalacustom
Heliman
Location: Lincoln Nebraska USA

I think the bearing failure is from the pinging of the engine, you have to retard timing or lower the compression ratio to run the same fuel. Example if you are having trouble with 30% nitro then to run 30% nitro your going to have to retard the timing or drop the compression ratio.

Pinging and detonation are two different animals. Pinging is when your fuel charge ignites at the wrong time IE 10degrees BTDC. Detonation is when your fuel charge is lit off at a different location than the plug. Detonation is cause by a hot spot in the combustion chamber. Pinging is caused by too low of octane fuel or wrong timing. Pinging will ruin the bottom end of an engine and detonation will eat the aluminum on the piston and head. It looks like the piston has been sputtered with aluminum particles. I have a piston out of a diesel Cummins that this happend to if anyone wants to see an excessive case of detonation and lean condition.

I have a friend in Washington who has a hyper 50 and is running 30% nitro with no troubles. I will ask him what brand of fuel and if he has his head shimmed or not, and what plug he is using.

If we knew what we were doing, we wouldn't call it research

05-17-2008 04:43 AM

lightningrc
Elite Veteran
Location: UK

If its pinging has you say then y is it not effecting the soft brass conrod ??

Still not convinced its not just cheap bearings.

05-17-2008 07:39 AM

HOMEPAGE

firefox
Senior Heliman
Location: Thailand

For the argument about the bearings themselves being the problem:
It's been stated (again, and again, and again) that even uber-expensive bearings of various types (and cheap bearings, and factory bearings) still fail. So no, it's not the bearings.

For the argument about climate/altitude being the culprit:
People living in the same climate/area have had varying failure rates (from zero to 100%) with the Hyper. So it's not the climate/altitude.

For the argument about fuel percentage:
Same thing... some people have had bearings fail at 15% (or even 0%) nitro, and not loading their engines at all, all the way up the spectrum to 30% fuel and hard 3D. And others, who have used the same fuel/flying, have not have bearing failures.

So, what leads to some people having regular bearing failures, while others (with identical birds, fuel, flying, etc. etc. etc.) have none?

Really, this is actually hijacking the thread, since it originally wasn't about this. For the bored, there are several other Hyper bearing failures threads out there for reference, since it's nothing new, and had been discussed to death several times.

05-17-2008 09:04 AM

the Wasp
rrProfessor
Location: Vt

more pitting post, proof some Hypers simply have to much compression, OR the head is simply to close to the piston and it is getting so hot it creates Detonation,,, I think some of it has to do with "Quality Control" meaning some of the Hyper 50 engines are coming with a slightly higher compression do to inconsistent machining,,

I know my engine had a little pitting too !!! I will try to control this Detonation with a cold plug that has an Idle Bar,,

personally I feel for $200 OS is really letting us down here, we have bearings going bad and piston/head Pitting do to Detonation,,

photo,,
http://runryder.com/fastphoto/25653/DSCN0758.jpg

post,,
http://runryder.com/helicopter/t385...ghlight=pitting

photo,,
http://www.daddyhobby.com/forum/att...achmentid=51508
post,,
http://www.daddyhobby.com/forum/showthread.php?t=28128

photo
http://runryder.com/fastphoto/43313/pits2a-7564.jpg

post
http://runryder.com/helicopter/t272...ghlight=pitting

if you scrool down in this thread you will see that "TonyTypeS" got 13 gallons out of his Hyper 50,,, 9 gallons with 10% and 12% and 4 of 15%,, and look good at his bearing, it looks as if it has a steel ball retainer, while my stock bearing has a Phenolic retainer ,,
http://runryder.com/helicopter/t308...ghlight=pitting

Jim
Buzz Buzz Buzz

05-17-2008 09:44 AM

DS 8717
rrProfessor
Location: Here wishing i was somewhere else

Quote
I think the bearing failure is from the pinging of the engine, you have to retard timing or lower the compression ratio to run the same fuel. Example if you are having trouble with 30% nitro then to run 30% nitro your going to have to retard the timing or drop the compression ratio.

lowering the compression changes the timing.

Quote
personally I feel for $200 OS is really letting us down here, we have bearings going bad and piston/head Pitting do to Detonation,,

You think OS let you down on the 50,the 91 is a piece of sh!t and they charge you $300 for it and then you have to spend another $100 or more to get it to run right.Oh yea,the bearing go out in those too.

05-17-2008 10:58 AM

Blade_Master1
Key Veteran
Location: Canada

out of all those failures how many used head shims ?

and how many were using 30% ?

how many prelubed the bearings ?

I believe it's the User not the product

I run 15%, prelubed the bearing and when I disassembled my engine this spring there was only a little bit of browning on the piston other than that it looks new and runs like new and the bearing feel like new.

.

JM2C's :)

05-17-2008 02:48 PM

StillTryin
Senior Heliman
Location: Perth, Western Australia

Quote
since it's nothing new, and had been discussed to death several times.

Maybe so but while the problem continues without an authoritative answer, it seems reasonable to continue the discussion. Those "bored" with it as you seem to be can read other threads.

05-17-2008 04:03 PM

firefox
Senior Heliman
Location: Thailand

I said "for the bored", not that "I am bored". Please actually read before referring to my reply, and keep the thread civil. I said it because perhaps we should actually show some respect for the OT and perhaps take the bearing discussion elsewhere, where it's actually the OT.

On another matter, like all other failures out there, people who don't actually have the failure happen to themselves tend to put the blame on the user. Even though there may be thousands of failures, the blame will still be put on the user. Basically an inability to understand that things will actually happen, even when they don't happen to oneself. The product itself is infallible.

05-17-2008 06:55 PM

lightningrc
Elite Veteran
Location: UK

My piston was totally unmarked light tarnish only , mine was not due to predetonation.

Un-named poor bearing in my simple has that as proven by using a second hand named bearing in engine which is perfect.

05-17-2008 07:07 PM

HOMEPAGE

nivlek
rrProfessor
Location: Norfolk England

Maybe we should buy a load of OS bearings and shove them into YS or TT engines and see if they still fail prematurely !

At the end of the day , it gets dark .

05-17-2008 07:07 PM

impalacustom
Heliman
Location: Lincoln Nebraska USA

I doubt they would fit Nivlek but that is a way to prove what is at fault. That is what Goodyear did to the Ford Explorer when Ford was saying that Firestone was at fault for the tires and guess what, there was a reason Ford redid the Explorer.

I have read post from people using ceramic bearings and they failed too, just quicker because of the strength of the ceramic is more than the steel.

I agree that the compression is different for a few engines out there. OS uses a tool until it becomes out of tolerance and then put new ones in, and this can and will cause slight differences but shouldn't cause enough to do this kind of stuff.

Guess when I get tired of my 30 I'll be looking around for a 50 non-hyper cause none of those seem to have the problems the hyper has.

If we knew what we were doing, we wouldn't call it research

05-17-2008 08:43 PM

the Wasp
rrProfessor
Location: Vt

Blade Master,, you said,, ""I believe it's the User not the product""

the Hyper 50 manual tells us to use up to 30% Nitro, the engines are made to use 30% Nitro for the US market,,

the Pitting proves there is a problem or there can be a problem, the photos people have posted of their Pitted Pistons and Pitted Heads show no proof of over leaning,, in their case their engines were (lack of better words) "fitted" wrong from the factory,,

Pitting comes from to much compression, a Cold Plug or very Cold Plug could help, but we are forced to use a Hot Plug because of the high Oil content we use and because we tune so rich to keep the engine cool,,

see, outside US 15% Nitro and over is considered High !!

and a Hot Plug used with High Nitro such as 30% is a no-no !!

I feel this Pitting problem is a Quality Control Problem with OS, after-all some people have the problem and others don't,,

as for the Bearing Problem, I feel it comes form a number of things (Cheap Chinese Bearings, to much Compression, and the Advanced Timing from using such a Hot Plug),,,

StillTrying,, I hear you there,, but if OS Max did reply I'm sure it would just be some Gibber Gabber that would not help, or it would cost us more money for the new fix,,, I mean I don't think they would say ""we have fixed the problem, please send in your Defected Engines and $50 and we will send you the new OS Hyper 55""

I guess OS Max should have sold their company to a family member instead of selling it to a company that does not care !!

Jim
Buzz Buzz Buzz

05-17-2008 11:42 PM

DS 8717
rrProfessor
Location: Here wishing i was somewhere else

I have some New OS bearings that i took out of a new engine and put them in a YS 50.The ceramic bearings i had lasted about 4 tanks of fuel and 1 of the balls chiped out. The non Hyper 50 had the same bearing problem.

05-18-2008 12:06 AM

Blade_Master1
Key Veteran
Location: Canada

the manual says up to 30% it doesn't say to use 30%nitro exclusively, however the manual should tell you to use shims as needed to lower the compression as per the fuel content.

If your piston is showing pitting and your bearings are being hammered I would have to say you didn't use Shims, they do sell cold plugs with idle bars.

This being the case it is the un-informed user not doin the proper setup.

We also have 30% nitro up here but I choose 15% because it is better for the engine and no additional setup is required to run it.

try 15% on your next 50 hyper and see how long it last

,

JM2C's :)

05-18-2008 12:11 AM

the Wasp
rrProfessor
Location: Vt

Blade Master,,,

maybe I am wrong here,, maybe Quality Control is why guys have NOT had Pitting or Bearing Problems..

if we had to add a shim for 30% then the manual would tell us to do so, don't you think..

Jim
Buzz Buzz Buzz

05-18-2008 12:30 AM

the Wasp
rrProfessor
Location: Vt

just pointing out here,,

notice the engine in the link, it's pitting is at the back of the head and exhaust side where cooling is not so efficient,,

http://runryder.com/fastphoto/43313/pits1a-7549.jpg

the engines compression is right on the borderline of to much,, only the cooling is stopping the pitting on the carb side of the engine,,

you can bet I will be ordering some Cold Plugs with Idle Bars to test !!

Jim
Buzz Buzz Buzz

05-18-2008 01:06 AM

Blade_Master1
Key Veteran
Location: Canada

Wasp

You do have some good points but I think we need to look at the whole picture as we are only seeing bits and pieces.

I am sure there is a percentage that can contributed to quality control shared with the lack of info from the manual.

I am also sure there are other factors to consider such as the high perfomance pipes, high nitro fuel.

Think of it this way
If you put all the high performance parts on your car engine it would not last nearly as long as it was origanaly made for.

Even if you do all the necessary prep work factory engines are not built for high performance they are built for longevity.

IMO the hyper50 was built to perform on normal fuel while achieving some high performance output.

Just because it says you can run 30% doesn't mean you should.

Just like you can put hitest octane in your car engine and run a thrush exhaust system it doesn't mean you should.

performance kills longevity it's a trade off
.

JM2C's :)

05-18-2008 02:56 AM

Dilbeck
Key Veteran
Location: Springdale Arkansas

Blade Master 1, I think your spot on here, So far it seams, it makes the best sense based on the replies.

If it doesn't fly sell it!

05-18-2008 03:20 AM

the Wasp
rrProfessor
Location: Vt

LOL notice "TMore" reply,,

http://runryder.com/helicopter/t429158p1/

Jim
Buzz Buzz Buzz

05-18-2008 05:35 AM

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