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Kyosho Caliber 30 & 60 - Concept - Nexus > Caliber 5 emms mix question
 
 
aliensil
Senior Heliman
Location: Mexico City

Hi guys

Destiny bring me back one of my caliber 5's and I'm decided to fly until die on a hard crash.

What work for you best on EMS mixing, less swash AFR mix or less servos ATV's??
Actually I program some 90% ATV's and 50 or less % on swash AFR.

Thank You

Flying pigs 8,000 feet above Sea level
05-08-2008 01:05 AM
 
 
heli-cuzz
Veteran
Location: Pittston, Pa. USA

Glad to see you're back on the Caliber.
More works better for me, not less.
My ATVs are 100% on all servo channels besides my rudder being at 140%.
I go by the book with 65% on the swash parameters.

Life Rotors On!!!
05-08-2008 01:49 AM
 
 
aliensil
Senior Heliman
Location: Mexico City

Hi Bryan

Damn, I must be doing something wrong, with 100 ATV's and 65% on swash AFR I run more than 12deg of pitch and swash binds on main mast at full collective and cyclic (positive or negative), servos are futaba 3252 and holes measure the 18mm, a little less maybe, pitch curves are flat 0-100.

I think I'm gonna measure all the links again as per manual. All the inputs are welcome.

Thank You.
JL

Flying pigs 8,000 feet above Sea level
05-08-2008 02:25 AM
 
 
dkshema
rrProfessor
Location: Cedar Rapids, IA

EMS -- Swash AFR mix controls how much you control movement you get for each function -- aileron, elevator, or collective pitch.

Smaller numbers decrease the amount of movement seen by the swash for each function. Less cyclic pitch for both the elevator and aileron. Less overall collective pitch range.

Larger numbers increase the amount of movement seen by the swash for each function. More cyclic pitch for both the elevator and aileron, more overall collective pitch range.

It is the SWASH AFR numbers that you use to increase/decrease cyclic and collective inputs to the head.

-----

The Endpoints, or ATV settings are what you use to make sure that your swashplate remains level as you increase or decrease the collective pitch setting. If one servo tends to move more or less than the other two servos controlling the swash, you need to change the ATV on THAT servo for THAT particular direction until the swash stays level from full negative to full positive pitch.

-----

You generally DON'T touch the ATV/Endpoint settings to control the amount of cyclic or collective pitch that you put into the head for a given stick movement.

-----

* Making the World a Better Place -- One Helicopter at a time! *

Dave
05-08-2008 05:06 AM
 
 
dkshema
rrProfessor
Location: Cedar Rapids, IA

From your description, I'd guess that you have too much cyclic pitch for aileron and elevator. Six to seven degrees max is about what you should be shooting for. That, on top of the +12 you say you are getting puts you at a total of 18-19 degrees pitch, and about 17 degrees is about all you can stand before bad things start happening -- blade stall. You'll be getting all sorts of weird behavior, I would think. Nose pitching up or down, or a tendency to roll left/right -- depending where around the rotation the blades stall.

-----

Binding of the mechanics up on the head is common for many heli designs when you have lots of collective pitch coupled with lots of cyclic pitch and go to one of the corners on your transmitter. That's why people have installed and use cyclic rings. They simply keep the sticks out of the corners where the binding occurs.

Binding up in the head is a great way to kill off your head speed when doing anything more than mild maneuvers.

-----

If you need more cyclic travel while reducing your overall control movement, consider using a set of longer balls on the swashplate that go to the long links from the swash up onto the head. You can buy steel balls from Miniature Aircraft and other heli manufacturers that are threaded with 3mm shanks and are anywhere from 9 to 11 mm in length. I'm using some 9mm balls on my swash, it could easily take the 10mm version.

Secondly, you can move the balls up on the beller mixing levers (the ones that droop down on the flybar, and whose short link goes to the main rotor grips) from the inner hole, to the outer hole on the levers. Moving these links to the outer hole increases the amount of travel the main rotors see with respect to the movement of the longer pushrods attached to the swash.

-----

* Making the World a Better Place -- One Helicopter at a time! *

Dave
05-08-2008 05:18 AM
 
 
JFERA22
Heliman
Location: MONTEREY,CA

hay aliensil I guess some of the calibers are just that way I just finished setting up my swash plate all per manual,I too get a little binding at the end of my cyclic travles.i guess we will have to tone it down a little in the radio,I cant lower the swash and lengthen because the bottom end is right there,so there's no way to go with it. we have Brian and dave here to tell us how to fix this right guys. Thanks Dave Thanks Brian maybe we could talk a little further about this subject.hay aliensil ot of curiosity let me know what you did to manage your cylic,it never hurts to have more input. Thanks guys JOE

VOOOLAAAREEE~~~ way up in the sky!!
05-08-2008 07:10 AM
 
 
heli-cuzz
Veteran
Location: Pittston, Pa. USA

Quote 
Hi Bryan

Damn, I must be doing something wrong, with 100 ATV's and 65% on swash AFR I run more than 12deg of pitch and swash binds on main mast at full collective and cyclic (positive or negative), servos are futaba 3252 and holes measure the 18mm, a little less maybe, pitch curves are flat 0-100.

I think I'm gonna measure all the links again as per manual. All the inputs are welcome.

Thank You.
JL



Aliensil,
Here's what i do in this situation.
I pitch guage my blades to -10 0 +10 and that will raise the lower points of your TX pitch curve from zero% into the range of 10% to 15% and lower high points of your TX pitch curve into the 85% to 90% range.
My P-curve in my radio is 10% on the -10 side and 90% on the +10 side and zero at center.
I leave my cyclic as far as the swash will tilt from side to side and front to back.

Life Rotors On!!!
05-08-2008 10:42 PM
 
 
aliensil
Senior Heliman
Location: Mexico City

Bryan

Oh yes, I try your method too before, only disavantage I see is that pitch curve run very sensitive on sticks, in theory of course, is like take out expos because we reduce the total travel and average it with stick throw. I guess if reducing ATV's or AFR do the same result because we are only limiting servo travel in any possible mix, another way could be change ball link distance from center but geometry will be a mess binding in two or three points (I do before with spektrum servos and HD JR wheels with bad results).

Anyway, if I'm not happy with the heli behavoir I return links to mmcp and run like my Rappys do, very well with one servo per control, predictable and friendly on setup and adjust.

Flying pigs 8,000 feet above Sea level
05-08-2008 11:51 PM
 
 
heli-cuzz
Veteran
Location: Pittston, Pa. USA

Aliensil,
I really like the response and feel of my set-up. Its very crisp and precise.
I have never used expo or dual rates.

Life Rotors On!!!
05-10-2008 03:06 PM
 
 
tommytt1
Senior Heliman
Location: Mercerville, NJ, USA

Dual rates and expo are for us guys that aren't as profficiant as you are on the sticks.

I made a mistake once, but I was wrong?
05-11-2008 01:04 AM
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
heli-cuzz
Veteran
Location: Pittston, Pa. USA

Quote 
Dual rates and expo are for us guys that aren't as profficiant as you are on the sticks.

LoL Hahaha

Even from day one there has been no expo or dual rates programmed into my TX. Although, I do recommend the use of those functions to newbs just learning to hover.
I flew Scott Gray's Vibe 90{buddy cord}with 30% expo. I didn't like the feel around center on the cyclic, far to soft for me.

Life Rotors On!!!
05-11-2008 02:30 PM
 
 
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Kyosho Caliber 30 & 60 - Concept - Nexus > Caliber 5 emms mix question
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