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Off Topics > Obama will stand aside if Iran attacks Isreal
 
 
LouInSD
Veteran
Location: San Diego CA USA

1stplace,

A representative republic is a form of democracy...and the terms are interchangeable...

So Tintin was not incorrect at all...

as a matter of fact many European countries have more 'democracy' than we do...it's called proportional representation...so their votes actually count...


Ghia, the only idiots who still talk the way you do are backwoods hicks...everyone else in this country has done woke up and smelled the coffee...your idiot leader has betrayed you...he invaded a country on false premises and established a horrible precedent, so now any country can invade any other country based solely on "bad intent" on the part of their perceived enemy...

You dumb people were in control for a little while and you managed to phuck just about everything up in a short time...

Congrats!

Time for the smart people to take over again...
05-07-2008 08:14 AM
 
 
kingair
Veteran
Location: Ivins, Utah - USA

Quote 
You dumb people were in control for a little while and you managed to phuck just about everything up in a short time...

It's a heck of a lot worse since the democrats took control on congress, talk about screwing things up in a short time.

There is a very fine line between "hobby" and "mental illness."
05-07-2008 02:31 PM
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
umdpru
Key Veteran
Location: Massachusetts

Quote 
Yup, hard to put out a fire with a flame thrower....

atleast until all of your fuel is used up. You can put out a fire with an explosion though...
05-07-2008 05:41 PM
 
 
Topher
Senior Heliman
Location: Grosse Ile, Michigan

Im moving to Australia.

And why would Iran attack Israel? They would have to nuke them because if they didnt kill them all Israel would really phuck that country up.

Get a life? How the hell do you fly a life?
05-07-2008 05:44 PM
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
xtremeaerosport
Heliman
Location: Lewes, DE

BIKINI Break

Lets send the blood from our brain someplace else for a few minutes, shall we?










[img]http://www.sportnetwork.net/mainadmin/img/1111148657318.jpg>






Now, back to your normally scheduled debate over the middle-east.

CPT Jonathan Ott
US Army
05-07-2008 09:39 PM
 
 
LouInSD
Veteran
Location: San Diego CA USA

kingair if you knew what you were talking about you'd know that the Dems have a very slim majority that does not allow them to change anything. Anytime they manage to pass anything, the chimp vetoes it...so we're right back where we started...the toilet...
05-08-2008 05:42 AM
 
 
LouInSD
Veteran
Location: San Diego CA USA

Time for another commercial break



05-08-2008 05:44 AM
 
 
Parsifal
Veteran
Location: Singapore

Er... the general opinion of America, since its move into iraq has declined considerably in This part of the world, a historically extremely moderate islamic one.

Nowadays though, things are different, and walking into Iraq was the primary factor for this change of opinion.

After 9-11, there was outrage and utter disgust for the terrorists, a mandate to walk into afghanistan and find the culprits was implicitly given by countries like Malaysia and Indonesia. Not that you needed madates, but the thought that you had them is a sign that people were indeed shocked and angry and wanted justice.

Then suddenly, Iraq came into the picture. Wait a minute!! what happened to the terrorists who carried out the attacks? er.. nevermind about them, we'll tackle the big picture...

WMA, and failing to find any, freedom, good, evil, etc...

People stopped believing, and support vanished, and now, despite what you repeatedly shout about, people just assume its about the oil.

Have you caught the terrorists who orchastrated 9-11? if not, why the hell are you in Iraq? Freedom and oppression??? come on, Africa, Burma, North Korea, and a slew of other countries have been oppressed for a long time too. No, its likely about Oil and whether you like it or not, thats what the rest of the world thinks.

You can sit around and wax lyrical about how you are spreading freedom, but frankly, outside of the US, i doubt anyone buys it anymore.

And if you believe the majority of the middle east supports your stance in Iraq, you are likely in for a rude shock.

Doubtless, someone will say this is Anti American, it isn't anti american to think your government is wrong. Which it is, and the world has become a far more dangerous place because of it.



Regards,

Pars.
05-08-2008 07:33 AM
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
LouInSD
Veteran
Location: San Diego CA USA

Thank you Pars

The informed among us know what your opinion is and why you have that opinion. Here in America we are fed propaganda 24 hrs a day about the Iraq debacle and only now are some of us starting to see through it.

It took 4000 of our young men to die before we woke up. We've been duped once again by big oil men who are making money from the blood of our young men.

Those of us in the know knew that they had been planning this since the late 80's when the PNAC declared their intentions to bomb their way into the middle east to take control of the oil...

all they needed was a new "Pearl Harbor"

http://www.newamericancentury.org/s...fprinciples.htm

During the early 90's this group of men were generally referred to in Washington D.C. as "The Crazies" because their policies were so wacked out that nobody could believe that they would actually follow through with their plans if they ever managed to get control of the political apparatus. They did and they did follow through with their idiotic plans...and now thousands upon thousands have died and their plans proved to have been a huge failure.

Now the world sees a superpower fading into history because of the mistakes of a few greedy, shortsighted men...

In a country that used to pride itself on free speech, now those of us who try to speak out against our govt (once considered a very patriotic thing to do) are now shouted down and called traitors...

In a country that talks a lot about freedom, every form of communication we use is being surveilled by our own govt.

Sinclair Lewis once said...

“When fascism comes to America it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross.”

It did...and it was...

It is a sad day in America...
05-08-2008 08:19 AM
 
 
Tintin
Veteran
Location: Akershus, Norway

Quote 
You are correct, only one was issued for the failed Oslo accords. Carter should have received it for the peace negotiated with Egypt. But I believe Carter got one recently, not for making peace, but talking trash about Bush.

So your bla bla about US diplomacy and peace prizes were actually just you talking BS that you hoped no one would call you on...

Interesting to see how you try to use the diplomacy and peace prize bs to advocate your biz when actually the only one doing any diplomacy is certainly not sharing your opinions in this matter....

I feel sorry for both you and jumbo...

T-Rex 450X, XL, 500, 600e, Raptor Titan, E620SE
05-08-2008 08:29 PM
 
 
MPA
Elite Veteran
Location: Australia

Quote 
No, its likely about Oil and whether you like it or not, thats what the rest of the world thinks.

It has to be about oil.
$120 a barrel from $50 a barrel before the War.
Are you saying GWB went to War to raise the price of gas ?
05-08-2008 08:39 PM
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
Pistol_Pete
Elite Veteran
Location: Tampa Bay non-Buccaneer

Quote 
In a country that used to pride itself on free speech, now those of us who try to speak out against our govt (once considered a very patriotic thing to do) are now shouted down and called traitors...

not too long ago they were called communist.

<><>...the lunatic is in my head...<><>
05-08-2008 08:43 PM
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
Dragon2115
Key Veteran
Location: New England

Tintin, proper use of violence does indeed solve problems. You even said it yourself. You were picked on by bullies until you finally used violence that was greater than theirs. After that they left you alone.

And let us not forget that if it weren't for violence on the part of America, you'd be speaking German right now.

As for Iraq, Saddam got what he deserved. The UN found him to be in material breach of the cease fire agreement IIRC on seven occasions. Generally speaking when one violates a cease fire agreement the shooting starts shortly afterwards so I don't see why anyone would be surprised.

Was the Intell wrong? Yes, in fact six western nations all got it wrong. Which is what leads me to believe that he was running a bluff. But who was he running this bluff on? My feeling is Iran. My bet is Saddam knew about Iran's secret nuclear program and wanted them to think that if they did develop a weapon and thought to use it he had the means to strike back. I think that the Niger uranium letters were a ruse to make Iran think that he was getting close to having a weapon too.

One thing we did learn was that Libya also had a nuclear weapons program too and that when they realized we knew about it they gave it up. After seeing what we did in Iraq on suspicion of WMD's Qaddafi wasn't going to have any part of it being brought down on his head.

One of the things that strikes me is that people say we didn't find WMD's when in fact we did. One example is the 5000 gallons of insecticide that was found on a military base. Last time I checked most insecticides are based on pretty powerful neurotoxins. Now unless that military base had one hell of a cockroach problem or that insecticide was meant to be put into artillery rounds or rockets if the order ever came. I think the reason people overlook this is because when they think of WMD's they're expecting something out of the movie The Rock where there's an ultra modern facility loaded with VX canisters. Oh sure, that's what he probably would have liked to have had but the truth is that's not really necessary. All you need to do for an effective chemical warfare program is to use common insecticides to keep your enemy incapacitated while you charge in and take control of the battlefield. No, Saddam got what he deserved. Where we made our mistake was in not securing the weapons depots and securing the border with Iran to prevent more from coming into the country. Rumsfeld was an idiot to think it could be done with so few troops.

But never the less we here and it'll take time to work this all out so that Iraq is stable again and we can finally leave. Unfortunately if anything takes longer than a bag of microwave popcorn these days people think it's a failure and that it never should have been done. Imagine where we'd be if we'd had that attitude throughout history. Probably still rummaging around for berries. The media has done a wonderful job of convincing everyone of how terrible everything is. Just like they've talked us into a recession. Don't think so? When 2/3 of the economy is based on consumer spending you don't go telling people there's a recession coming. What will happen is you'll create a self-fulfilling prophecy where they'll stop spending and you will then have the recession you predicted.

As for Iran nuking Israel, they won't do it directly. If they can they'll make a bomb nobody knows about and slip it to Hamas or some other group to set off so they can claim it wasn't them.

If Iran has lots of oil why do they need nuclear power plants? And if they're not up to something why did they refuse when their friend Russia offered to set up an enrichment plant and supply them with all the reactor fuel they could ever possibly use? If Iran keeps going the way it is, having troops in Iraq may turn out to be needed as a rapid response force.
05-09-2008 02:23 AM
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
LouInSD
Veteran
Location: San Diego CA USA

Quote 
Are you saying GWB went to War to raise the price of gas ?

LOL, You're kidding right?

You tell me...







Quote 
not too long ago they were called communist

another clueless jackass...
05-09-2008 07:44 AM
 
 
Tintin
Veteran
Location: Akershus, Norway

Quote 
Tintin, proper use of violence does indeed solve problems. You even said it yourself. You were picked on by bullies until you finally used violence that was greater than theirs. After that they left you alone.

I don't think you read my post quite well enough. Yes it did make them leave me alone, however it did not solve the problem. Both of them obviously lost some honour, they made sure to grow stronger and found someone else to bully. They didn't stop being the school bullies, they just realized picking on me was a bad choice.
The only thing they learnt was to find a weaker enemy.

Here's were you guys fall short. Your opponent is not going to lay down the arms as long as you act like you do. There is one major difference between muslims and my bullies. Not loosing their honour is even more important and far too many of them are willing to die taking as many of you with them as possible. Dying is NOT a problem for them. Their hate is intense and dying for the cause gives them honour. Just like you guys thank those that "fight for you" these guys honours those that die while killing off your guys. Much like how it was in that other war you didn't win.

If you are going to win these types of war, you will have to win over the common man so your enemy doesn't grow stronger all the time. Kinda feel your reception was slightly different in 44/45 than what it is now or what is was in Nam. In WWI+II most people hated the germans intensly. I'd say a very large portion of the german soldiers didn't even agree with their leaders, but when you choice is fight or be shot the choice becomes simple. Then you helped liberate, now you are view as invaders by slightly too many. It's a completely different situation and you guys don't seem to realize that somehow.


Quote 
And let us not forget that if it weren't for violence on the part of America, you'd be speaking German right now
.

Thouroughly debated already...
Well, strangely enough, there were no US soldiers on Norwegian soil during the last WW. It was actually mostly the brits that helped us out. Our soldiers were trained in the UK and in Canada. And if it wasn't for out merchant fleet the US troops and supplies would have had major problems getting over to Europe at all so I'm not sure who helped who the most here.

T-Rex 450X, XL, 500, 600e, Raptor Titan, E620SE
05-09-2008 08:53 AM
 
 
umdpru
Key Veteran
Location: Massachusetts

Tintin

Get Real!

Quote 
Your opponent is not going to lay down the arms as long as you act like you do.

Jihad has been declared against us and they have vowed to wipe us from the map, whether we lay down our arms or not. Laying down our arms will only allow them to kill more of us.

You pacifist hippy assholes are pathetic.
05-09-2008 01:17 PM
 
 
Mutt
Veteran
Location: t ca usa

umdpru just consider the source.
05-09-2008 01:27 PM
 
 
Sealerman
Veteran
Location: Long Island, New York.

Quote 
You pacifist hippy assholes are pathetic.

LOL, their not as pathetic as lazy ass War mongering losers like umdpru that don't join the military to help in the fight you feel is going to kill us all.

Quote 
Jihad has been declared against us and they have vowed to wipe us from the map, whether we lay down our arms or not. Laying down our arms will only allow them to kill more of us.
Hey umdpru, when are you joining the Army to at least protect your family from the boggy men, you pussy.
05-09-2008 01:39 PM
 
 
Tintin
Veteran
Location: Akershus, Norway

How would they be able to do that if you were not there???

Quote 
You pacifist hippy assholes are pathetic.

At least we are able to learn from experience unlike certain other groups And btw I think it's spelled hippie, but maybe english isn't your native language either.....

Why has Jihad been declared, do you have the faintest idea? Do you think it was because of the excellent diplomatic skills the US has shown the world? Or might there be other reasons? Maybe it's the unselfish render of aid and assitance to those in need?
Might that yapping monkey prez who's threateing other countries with invasion have any effect you think?

How come they don't declare Jihad against everybody who's not a muslim?? Why are you the main target you think Mr Wiseguy?

Any ideas Mr Einstein??

When you laid down the arms in Nam and went home. How did that affect the killing rate. Did it go up, remain the same or did it amazingly go down?

The dogs I used to have used to act like you preach thinking it was a smart move...sure kept them out of trouble. On the other hand, they were not that intelligent....

One might think you would have learnt from some experiences a bit closer to you, but not even that can be seen. Are you still fighting the civil war or have you laid down arms (it does seem like not all of you have...) were there more or less soldiers killed efterwards?
Do you still shoot "injans" for fun for have you come to peace with them? I'd like to hear the indian/native american that could agree that proper use of violence is good....

As I've said many times, don't misunderstand me. Kicking Saddam out of Kuwait, yes good move. helping the world get rid of Adolf, yes good move. Going into Iraq, really bad move

T-Rex 450X, XL, 500, 600e, Raptor Titan, E620SE
05-09-2008 01:41 PM
 
 
Tintin
Veteran
Location: Akershus, Norway

Quote 
No apologies necessary. I was just correcting you. If you want to apologize, apologize for your anti-American rhetoric.

Seems all you was to make another mistake. Sorry if you take it as anti-American, it's not really. It's anti-war, anti-Bush and anti-idiots in general. I have no beef with the general American (might be a surprise to you but I have both American relatives and friends...), just with half brains who think war can solve this. Doesn't matter to me if the half-brain is American, Israeli, Palestinian, Iraqi, Burmese, Sudanese - to me they are all the same half-brain-bullies I've despiced my whole life. Even when I was in the army

T-Rex 450X, XL, 500, 600e, Raptor Titan, E620SE
05-09-2008 01:56 PM
 
 
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