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e-Align T-REX 450-500-600 > T-REX 450 Nose go left on climb outs
 
 
Tonic
Senior Heliman
Location: Des Moines

My V2 nose goes left on climb outs. I didn't have this problem with my v1 with FM radio. My new setup is: DX7, gain set at 72, gy401, and 9257 on the tail. Anyone have any recomendations?

Tonic
05-05-2008 03:01 AM
 
 
rufusis
Senior Heliman
Location: Austin, Texas - USA

I am running the same setup, except my gain is at 80%. My nose does the same thing, I thought maybe it was just part of how the V2 flies (my first heli after CX2). I do notice my belt getting loose after a couple flights, maybe this has something to do with it? Sorry, I know that is no help to you, I guess I'm just wondering the same thing now.

Now to make it fly like it does in my dreams!
05-05-2008 03:37 AM
 
 
drdot
Elite Veteran
Location: So. California, Orange County.

fwiw..

Two most likely issues are too much pitch, or too low a headspeed...bump the throttle curve up, cut pitch to 10 degrees or so and see if that helps...If you are running 13 t pinion, drop to 12....

John.
05-05-2008 05:32 AM
 
 
Tonic
Senior Heliman
Location: Des Moines

John, I am running a 12t on and XL motor with pitch set +10/-10. I bumped the gain up to 80 as you suggested, it did not improve. I also tried 82 and then went the other way to 65 and none of these setting help with this condition.

I am running a Jazz 40 on slow start up with the TH curve set to 75 across in idle-up as was suggested to me. I'm kind of thinking that the Jazz is the cause of this problem. I really don't understand this ESC very well.

Tonic
05-05-2008 01:20 PM
 
 
Tintin
Veteran
Location: Akershus, Norway

What's your HS with 12T and 75% throttle?
Both mine were like that earlier. Gain didn't affect it.
To weak tailservo was my first problem, that should not be yours.

Low HS is more likely. More HS results in less pitch needed for same climbing speed, solved it for me.
Very unlikely it's the ESC, supposedly the best there is.
It should be easy to notice, if it bogs then it will turn, if it bogs you have to low HS or cr@ppy batteries. Go 2500+ on the head.

Supposedly a leftie :-)
05-05-2008 01:48 PM
 
 
TomRex
Elite Veteran
Location: West Palm Beach Fl.

You can effectively get more tail pitch by loostening the tail hub set screw, tug the hub to the outside of the tailshaft knotch and retighten, setup over again with a no trim in rate mode mechanical setup to hover. Power off, switch back to HH, power heli and go fly.
Also can raise the rudder limits way past 100% and ad expo for better pop and stop.

The AMA is way better than what you belong to!
05-05-2008 04:17 PM
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
drdot
Elite Veteran
Location: So. California, Orange County.

fwiw..

H/s sounds like the main issue...75% is too low, run 100 90 100 in three points should help....80% is too high on the gain, unless your throws and setup are way off.

John.
05-05-2008 04:26 PM
 
 
Skarn
Senior Heliman
Location: Pasadena, MD

I agree with drdot....I use a throttle curve of 100, 95, 90, 95, 100 and it's great. Up the headspeed and see if that helps.

Skarn

It's better to burn out than to fade away...
05-05-2008 06:05 PM
 
 
Tonic
Senior Heliman
Location: Des Moines

Tintin, I don’t have a tachometer so head speed is unknown. The heli does not bog though.

TomRex, I’m not understanding your suggestion of tugging the hub to the outside. I do think raising the rudder limits it sure worth at try. What about going to a 13t pinion?

John, They tell me with the Jazz that in governor mode that 75% across is proper and the esc will do the rest. These Jazz’s are a different animal.

Skarn, By chance are you using a Jazz at those curve setting?

Tonic
05-06-2008 12:11 PM
 
 
AAKEE
Senior Heliman
Location: Boden, Sweden

Just try to raise the H.S to see if the problems remain. Go from 75% to 85% on the flat gov. -curve.

If it is the H.S thats to low, then the tail rotor speed is to low to 'bite' enough in the air. Raising the H.S also raises the tail rpm. Just try to see if it helps.

Does punching max pitch in a hover also put the nose to the left?
If it does, try increasing gain...if it wont help, then raise HS.
05-06-2008 12:52 PM
 
 
Tonic
Senior Heliman
Location: Des Moines

AAKEE, Yes punching the pitch from a hover the nose will go left. I tried increasing the gain and that had no effect, I also raised the rudder limits and that also had no effect. I’ll try increasing the curve to a flat 85% and see what effect that has.
05-07-2008 02:56 AM
 
 
norsman
Senior Heliman
Location: paradise PA

With a DX7 cant you use revo mixing ,that will fix it...
05-07-2008 10:09 PM
 
 
Tonic
Senior Heliman
Location: Des Moines

Norsman, Wow interesting! I never have used Revo Mixing but you can be sure I'm going to get my manual out and start reading.

Tonic
05-08-2008 11:33 AM
 
 
AAKEE
Senior Heliman
Location: Boden, Sweden

Quote 
With a DX7 cant you use revo mixing ,that will fix it...

No, dont do that. It just wont be right. The GY401 is a heading hold gyro and the rudder input tells the gyro to turn left or right. If revo mixing is used with a 401 it will cause the nose to move when changing pitch...and that´s already the problem, right ?
The problem is the nose going left on high pitch, and with revo mixing you also get a nose right input at smaller pitch values, so the nose will go right then.

If to do anything with the Revo mixing, it should be a check to make sure its inactivated

I have a trex450SE with the V2 engine(430XL) running +/-10degree pitch, I have GY401 and a modified Futaba 9650 tail servo(same prestanda as 9257). This combination hold the tail VERY well.
If I run in normal mode(rahter low HS, about 2400-2500) and punch full pitch, then the tail cant hold. It´ll move about 10-15 degree nose left, the speed/rpm of the tail is to low. If I increase rpm by going into flight mode 1 i get a little more rpm and the nose/tail almost can hold...just minor movements. When switching into flight mode2 then it holds perfect. I guess it would be easy to use the gyro menu and have different gain in FM1 and 2, but i fly >99% in flight mode 2 anyway.

Tonic--> Use different flight modes with different head speeds to test this out.

First, your gyro setting? ...I dont use the gyro menu, I change the gain by changing travel adjust on the gear channel.
You should increase the gain in steps (of 5% or so) until the tail starts to wag. If gyro gain is too low, then the nose wont hold.
So by increasing it until its too high(tail wag) then that test should show us for sure that the gain isnt the problem( I dont think so, I´d put some money on the head speed.

Next, are you able to fly that ESC in 'not gov. mode' ? ..then set a normal flight mode curve with low throttle settings and see how the nose holds, then increase the middle stick setting rather much, perhaps 75-80%, and max throttle at 100%...and do the same test...my guess is that the nose holds now.

Step3, go back to gov. mode and change the head speed so the nose wont twist more than you can stand.

On the GY401: With a futaba 9257 the DS switch should be set to ON, and the delay should be set to Zero. Limit should be adjusted so you get maximum travel without binding.

I have one more tip, before the inc in my keyboard goes out
Thats to manually adjust the mechanical rudder setting, start with booting the GY401 as normal(in HH mode) and the put it into normal(gain setting below 50% ?...I do it by flipping my gear switch).
Check rudder trim = zero before booting GY401.
Then adjust the pitch by adjusting the linkage rod length so the pitch is some degrees(about 6?) that will force the TAIL to the left.
You get about the right value if you fold the blades to same side on the hub and get about 1/3 inch (8mm) between the tail blade tips.
Then hover the heli, switch from HH to normal and check that the nose holds ok. If it turns left, increase the mechanical pitch value and vise versa.
This will help the gyro find the right tail blade after a rudder input...for me it made the tail stop faster/firmer after piros etc.
05-08-2008 01:06 PM
 
 
Tonic
Senior Heliman
Location: Des Moines

AAKEE, that’s some great information my man! I lost an uncle two days ago and have a house full of family with more on the way, so it maybe a few days before I can put you great info into practice. I’ll be sure to let you know how I’m doing.

Thank you very much,
Tonic
05-08-2008 11:27 PM
 
 
baby uh1
Senior Heliman
Location: St. James, Mo.

AAKEE,
Why wouldn't you use the Gy401 in digital servo mode with the 9257?
It is a digital servo so shouldn't the gyro be in DS?

Tonic, Sorry for your loss!
05-08-2008 11:46 PM
 
 
AAKEE
Senior Heliman
Location: Boden, Sweden

Quote 
AAKEE,
Why wouldn't you use the Gy401 in digital servo mode with the 9257?
It is a digital servo so shouldn't the gyro be in DS?


Yes, you´re absolutely right..had a glitch in my brain, Its edited now. Thank You for being observant

Tonic --> Sorry for Your loss, and good luck with the upcoming tuning.
05-08-2008 11:54 PM
 
 
misskimo
Veteran
Location: Alaska 12 years before , mississippi for 31 y

hey , one of the main reasons why the tail swings out is the stock tail blades, get the new carbon blades and it should stop the swing! if not , then you need to up the HS some either by going up on the gov or Vcurve or bring the pitch down some

Do-Yo-Thang! !:~) Team ThunderPower & Spartan Gyros
05-09-2008 12:08 AM
 
 
baby uh1
Senior Heliman
Location: St. James, Mo.

Quote 
quote]AAKEE,
Why wouldn't you use the Gy401 in digital servo mode with the 9257?
It is a digital servo so shouldn't the gyro be in DS?


Yes, you´re absolutely right..had a glitch in my brain, Its edited now. Thank You for being observant [/quote]

Hey no problem. I just thought that I had missed out on a compatability issue or something. I just got a 9257 and it was working great but I'm always open to learning.
05-09-2008 03:34 AM
 
 
TomRex
Elite Veteran
Location: West Palm Beach Fl.

tonic,
Quote 
You can effectively get more tail pitch by loostening the tail hub set screw, tug the hub to the outside of the tailshaft knotch and retighten
exactly what it says, most I've seen have the tail shaft sticking out of the hub, if you loosten the set screw and slide the hub to the outside the shaft end is just a fuzz to the inside of the hub surface, this allows more slider throw on the tail shaft. More throw, more controll.....

The AMA is way better than what you belong to!
05-11-2008 02:44 PM
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e-Align T-REX 450-500-600 > T-REX 450 Nose go left on climb outs
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