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Midland Helicopters . HeliProz . ZoomsHobbies

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Main Discussion > Young pilots & helicopters.
 
 
red_z06
Key Veteran
Location: Dumont, NJ

Are you asking if it will scar him for life? I'm sure it will. It will have the same effect on me if not worse. Anyone here who can deal with that situation without a permanent mental scar is a monster not a human being. At what age do you think he won't be scarred if he killed someone? if ever?

Justin is just like any other 5 year old when getting up in the morning. It takes considerable effort to get him to school each morning at 8:45am. However, on funfly days, even at 4am (for 4hour drive trip), all I have to say is "Funfly time" and he is up like a zombie springing up. It is things like this lets me know that I'm doing the right thing.

If he decides to blame me, there is nothing I can do to fix it.

www.justinchi.com
05-09-2008 08:08 PM
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
DWS6
Veteran
Location: Newark,DE

Very good points FBOSS.

Ron, I am sorry you think I am insulting you but my statement was merely a sarcastic question.

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Again, why do you have to insult me, and not discuss the situation?

"AGAIN", when have I insulted you the first time let alone a second. I have not done anything but discuss this.

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Clearly you have not paid any attention...That is not my point at ALL. My point is people are going to make mistakes and the more they think about the possible outcome, and adjust the situation based on experience, the LESS damage they will do when the accident does happen.

And that a 4 year old does not have that level of judgement.

Care to debate that, and not make insults?

Your point has been about judgement, Experience is gained with age correct? Is experience the only teacher to judgement? I don't think so. You bet that when Justin flys he knows if that heli hits him its going to hurt bad. Do you not think he couldn't apply that logic to someone else if he hit them? Do you fly 3D Ron? If you do then you know there is no time to think twice when flying low. Your mind wonders for 1 second and that machine is already doing something you didn't expect. No pilot can stop every accident from happening.

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Justin follows the rules, flys better, and is more aware of his surroundings then most other pilots out there.

His own father said Justin is not allowed to cross the flight line, but he did anyway.

Again you make accusations saying he can't make a mistake. You don't even know the circumstances to why it happened and to you he is automatically guilty. There are 100 reasons as to why what happened could have happened. You talk as though you have little experience in flying helis. I am sure you are knowledgable in this field but why do you seem to look at this so close minded? I watched a 30 some year old man almost fly a helicopter into a pit tent last year at a fun fly because it got away from him. He saved it within only a few feet of hitting people, simply just dumb thumbed it. A few yars ago another 30 some yr old pilots heli locked out went over the flight line and crashed into the benches in the pits. How does judgement play into these scenarios? How could have experience changed the outcome? If that was Justin it simply is because he is too young? Come on!

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Yes a 4 yr old can excersise good judgement

That is where I disagree...And HIS OWN FATHER has said that he only has 4 years experience.

I don't see how this pertains, Its obvious he only has 4 yrs experience he is 5 1/2. I already voiced my opinion that I don't believe experience is the only teacher to good judgement.

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If you would agree that age does NOT ALWAYS equate to better judgement then your arguement has no basis.

No, age does not *always*, but a 4 year old is NEVER. That is the difference you seem to ignore.

"Never" what? Never have good judgement, your selling kids short there don't you think?

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Spend much time with kids? They do not grasp the consequences of their actions.
THAT is the issue. Children do not have the ability to make rational choices.
How many people get shot or murdered every year by some jerk off with a gun on the streets of any city across America? These adults must not grasp the consequences of their actions either. Lets use your example. The guy who gets drunk at the bar and decides he is fine to drive home when he knows he shouldn't. Where is the rational choice?

My point is that rarely does age have anything to do with good judgement, a rational choice, or even good experience. Some get it and some don't. Bottom line!!!!!

I guess we will just have to agree to disagree on this matter.

Dave
R90 / Waiting on Vibe 50/ T-Rex SE / T-Rex 600N
05-09-2008 09:43 PM
 
 
RonHill
Veteran
Location: ..

DWS6

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Ron, I am sorry you think I am insulting you but my statement was merely a sarcastic question.

You cannot see how your sarcastic comment was an insult?? "Ron are you some kind of rightous heli god or something?"

You STILL want to claim you are not making insults?

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Is experience the only teacher to judgement?

You think you can have judgement WITHOUT experience?

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Do you fly 3D Ron?

Yes, do you? There is a video in the RR TV if you want to see my ability from a year ago.

You are still trying to discuss me instead of discussing the issue with comments like, "Do you fly 3D Ron?", and "You talk as though you have little experience in flying helis".

For the record I have been flying RC for over 23 years...How about you?

My other sport kills about 30-40 people a year in the US...How about yours?

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My point is that rarely does age have anything to do with good judgement, a rational choice, or even good experience. Some get it and some don't. Bottom line!!!!!

I have tried to explain that children are not little adults and their thought process is not developed. You should read Bradley L. Schlaggar, M.D., Ph.D. and his study about this.

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Damien A. Fair, a graduate student in Schlaggar's lab, led the new study, which compared functional connectivity in 13 brain regions linked to the default network in children ages seven to nine and adults ages 21 to 31.

"The difference between children and adults is profound," Fair says. "In a graph depicting the strength of connections between the brain regions we studied, children's minds have just a few connections between some regions, while the adult brains have a web-like mesh of many different interconnecting links involving all the regions."

In papers published in recent years, the researchers have used the same techniques to identify two networks that they think control much of the brain activity behind behaviors directed toward "external" goals, including observing and interacting with the environment.

Or just look how Ritalin affects children's minds differently than adults.

Study after study has show that children up through adolescence do not understand the consequences of their actions. The frontal lobes — the part that helps us to plan, consider, control impulses, make wise judgements; in short to be kind, caring, considerate people — are the last bit to mature....This is fact.

Care to debate that?
05-10-2008 01:04 AM
 
 
DWS6
Veteran
Location: Newark,DE

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You STILL want to claim you are not making insults?
Yeah, I know what I wrote and no I don't see it as an insult unless you see yourself as a heli god. Again, sorry you took it that way.

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Is experience the only teacher to judgement?

You think you can have judgement WITHOUT experience?

That is what I said. Let me explain:
Lets say your kid is in the yard and you tell them they can't cross the line at the curb and not to go into the street no matter what.
Now they accidently kick a ball into the street in front of a moving car.
a: They don't get it because you told them not to go into the street - good judgement without experience.
b: They go after it and get hit by the car - bad judgement without experience

A few weeks later the same scenario happens but this time he doesn't run into the street to get the ball because his last experience of getting hit by the car teaches him its not a good idea - good judgement with experience.

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Do you fly 3D Ron?

Yes, do you? There is a video in the RR TV if you want to see my ability from a year ago.

You are still trying to discuss me instead of discussing the issue with comments like, "Do you fly 3D Ron?", and "You talk as though you have little experience in flying helis".

I am not discussing you, I am discussing Justin, I used you as example to prove two different points in which you convienantly left out of your quote. You are missing the point of reaction time and judgement. This has absolutely nothing to do with you, or me for that matter.

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My point is that rarely does age have anything to do with good judgement, a rational choice, or even good experience. Some get it and some don't. Bottom line!!!!!

I have tried to explain that children are not little adults and their thought process is not developed. You should read Bradley L. Schlaggar, M.D., Ph.D. and his study about this.

I don't think children are little adults or that their thought process is devolped. I don't condone that all young kids should be allowed to fly helis. But we or I at least, am not talking about all kids, I am talking about Justin and the few gifted kids like him. My arguement is that age should not be a deciding factor as to whether or not they should fly helis. My points have been based around the fact the Justin does exibit the nessessary skills and capacities to do it. There are way to many adults out there that I have seen fly that shouldn't be flying but because they are older its OK. That is what I say is BS. It is no different then the 70 yr old person on the road that is completely unaware of their surrounding but because they have been driving for 50+ yrs they must be OK. I know every one of you that spends any amount of time on the road have experienced this one.

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"The difference between children and adults is profound," Fair says. "In a graph depicting the strength of connections between the brain regions we studied, children's minds have just a few connections between some regions, while the adult brains have a web-like mesh of many different interconnecting links involving all the regions."
Maybe, just maybe, Justin and the few others out there like him have an abnormaly high level of these interconnects as well. Anything is possible. I don't have any knowledge of this so I can't debate you here. I take your word that this is fact.
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Study after study has show that children up through adolescence do not understand the consequences of their actions.
My point is some adults don't either. I have already given examples of this.

With all due respect, I have brought up points and reasoning behind my points and when you don't agree you have just come back with my same statement as a question. It is obvious we are not going to see eye to eye on this so I am done debating it. This is not going anywhere productive.

Do we agree to disagree?

Dave
R90 / Waiting on Vibe 50/ T-Rex SE / T-Rex 600N
05-12-2008 04:44 AM
 
 
RotorRage
Senior Heliman
Location: Lake Charles, La.

I don't see it as a problem. I do belive a little more caution is in order when a child is flying because they may not fully understand that they have someone's life in thier hands. If they lose control they might not know it's best to plant it rather than try for a save while it's heading into the pits. I will admitt i have to keep my jelousy in check sometimes as do some of the guys at the field when i fly. That is my issue to deal with and should not limit the child. To be honest i would rather stand next to a child flying a 90 than some of the adult heli and plane pilots i've seen. I honestly belive if you can't handle the risk you don't need to be there.

When life gets rough don't pick your nose or you might stab your brain!
05-12-2008 12:02 PM
 
 
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