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Main Discussion > Young pilots & helicopters.
 
 
BJames111
Elite Veteran
Location: Billings, Montana

HA HA! DOOD, you're a smart guy.

I agree 100%

Brian James
Miniature Aircraft Fury Extreme
Align Trex600N
G-Force Heli
Elevated R/C
05-02-2008 02:08 PM
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
dannyh5
Senior Heliman
Location: England

Dood you stated

It's always YOUR FAULT because by doing ANYTHING in your life, you're assuming a risk, and therefore accept responsibility for yourself.

This statement applies to the pilot as much as the spectator at the flying field, or driving a car or anything else.

If you drink and drive, the driver takes the risk of getting sent to jail for hitting someone and must take the consequences, just as the victim does. But your statement suggests the driver would not be a fault because, the victim should not have been there. IF this is what you are saying, the statement shows an immature outlook on life.

Grown ups have rules, these rules will be used to determine who is right and who is wrong, therefore who is at fault.

As there are not rules on the age of the pilot, if the pilot crashed and injures someone, the insuring company will decide who fault it is and compensate accordingly.

The age of the pilot makes no difference, but the pilots understanding of his responsibilities does because he/she must fly according to the rules set by his/her third party cover (of equivalent US insurance), that’s all that matters.

I wouldn't let my kids fly yet, I can’t even trust them to wash their hands after going to the toilet. But they do have a contra rotating type heli, I’m going to wait till they are about 12. But I have NO problem with other people teaching there kids a lot sooner.
05-02-2008 02:24 PM
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
whirlyspud
Veteran
Location: USA

As will full scale aviation, I think the most dangerous pilots are those just starting out, and those with so much time that they think they are somehow beyond something going wrong. I've never had a kid make me run for cover so far. I only wish I could say the same thing for the adults.

And for those saying if you don't like it you should leave. Screw that. You fly like a jack ass at our field, and you will be called out for it. I used to fly with a guy we will call Jay. Not calling him Jay to protect his name or anything because Jay was his name. Jay liked to fly figure 8's real low with his plane with the center of the 8 pointing the plane right at the flight line and very close to the flight line. He would fly straight in and turn at the last moment.

Many people asked him to move it out a little bit. No good. The day he got wise was the day he hit himself. He had a lockout right at the worst possible moment. Lucky for him he was not hurt too bad. He had a few bruised ribs. In all the time I have flown, his accident was the only time I saw people laughing at someone while they were still rolling around on the ground in pain.

I limit my kids flying not because I am worried about them hurting someone. I limit it because I am more worried about someone hurting them. If the kid has the maturity, let them have at it.


Mike
05-02-2008 02:34 PM
 
 
FBoss
Senior Heliman
Location: Cincinnati, Ohio, USA

Red, hey you just rained a alot of people who can fly safe but not inverted. Why do HAVE to fly inverted to be safe?

The good ole times are now ,000132
05-02-2008 02:58 PM
 
 
FBoss
Senior Heliman
Location: Cincinnati, Ohio, USA

I do agree with passing a flight test to certify ability, I think that is a very good idea. Age limits I do not agree with, like just about everyone here. One point I am in disagreement with Dood, Yes we all take on risk BUT we all should be able to at least have some expectation that people around us will act responsably and according to whatever Norms have been established and if they dont, they should be held accountable for there actions. Most importantly, everyone, I repete this to my kids all the time, EVERONE needs to be AWARE of there surroundings at all times. PAY ATTENTION to whats going on around you and youll avoid almost every bad situation and be ina better position to limit the ones you cant avoid. So Imwith Dood about 85%
Once the skill has been proven, let em fly!

The good ole times are now ,000132
05-02-2008 03:08 PM
 
 
Topher
Senior Heliman
Location: Grosse Ile, Michigan

I dont care if someone gives a 4 year old kid a helicopter. But I will never give my 4 year old a helicopter as I think thats not a good way to raise a child. Something about giving them a $2,000 toy just doesnt seem right to me. Maybe its just the way I was raised, I couldnt even afford the heli I had now until a few months ago when I graduated from college and got a real job.

Get a life? How the hell do you fly a life?
05-02-2008 03:09 PM
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
FBoss
Senior Heliman
Location: Cincinnati, Ohio, USA

I doubt this would ever be the case but
anyone want to be on the flight line with a 10 year old who built his own Bird?
IMHO that would not be a good thing. Thats where some could apply the maturity rule.
Flame suit on

The good ole times are now ,000132
05-02-2008 03:13 PM
 
 
PitchFan
Heliman
Location: Sunny FL

Quote 
Why are people so stuck on the age factor? If a person is proficient at a job, or task, why does age matter?

Exactly. There are more adult pilots I have seen that would make me run faster then some of the new young pilots
05-02-2008 03:18 PM
 
 
RonHill
Veteran
Location: ..

Dood

Why not just let 6 year olds drive themselves to school?

I mean they live in the game age and can drive on GTA4.

Quote 
It's always YOUR FAULT because by doing ANYTHING in your life, you're assuming a risk, and therefore accept responsibility for yourself.

It is about level of risk. I skydive and we lose about 30-40 people a year in the US. I accept that level of risk since I can, for the most part, control the level.

Recently there has been a trend of jumpers trying to buzz in freefall past another skydiver that is under canopy. The closing speed is about 120MPH and there have been deaths due to this type of activity.

Yes, by jumping out of a plane I accept a certain level of risk....However, the buzzers actions are totally out of my control and subject me to additional risk I did not sign up for.

Quote 
Now how are you going to compare driving a car to flying a model aircraft?

Yes, we accept risk in daily life....But just like driving on the street the others out there have to be at an age that they understand the risks and have proven themselves able.

Wa11banger
Quote 
What would you do? in the scenarios you all bring up, what would you do?

I lost the tail on my Trex 600. It was inverted, spinning, and now headed towards the flight line.....I decided that since it was headed towards the flight line to just put her down.

I was put into a potentially dangerous situation and my reasoning and experience allowed to make the call, quickly, that it was safer for ALL to sacrifice the heli than try to save it and risk someone else.

red_z06

Quote 
Bottom line is that it is not the age thing that bothers us. It has to with being different.

Your *opinion* of why it bothers me. You don't know. I understand you are defending your child...But "different" does not bother me. It is the fact you just stated you don't want to teach kids about safety:

Quote 
You should not teach these kids about safety. They will become your worst nightmare and become your personal safety police and take a way all your carefree fun. It is no fun being called out by a 5 year old that you did a dangerous move.

THAT is my issue. You have a child that is involved with a dangerous activity and YOU don't want to tell them what is safe.

Also their judgment. Are they going to be able to see a problem, identify the danger, and take an action that is diametrically opposed to their thinking in seconds for the safety of ALL?
05-02-2008 03:24 PM
 
 
red_z06
Key Veteran
Location: Dumont, NJ

FBoss.

Majority of beginners will adhere to safety guideline and their common sense.

I have written some of that to enlighten some of the issues we face. Solo airplane flying, at a club is forbiden until you meet the minimum demonstration of your abilities in front of senior instructors (some clubs may differ).

It is somewhat difficult with helis to enforce the above. I have seen people too eager to jump right in to do flips and rolls when they can't even hold a nose-in hover safe. They figure if they push the elevator and hold it long enough, it will comeback to original upright state. When all things go right and heli comes back, great! However, when heli comes back ever so slightly twist, all hell breaks loose. Actually, only heli returns to original from (kit).

Kids will follow the rules and guidlines to the letter (kids who do not, don't belong at the field). But, adults will not. Either becuase they somehow believe they are god or they often push way way beyond their skill level as egos drive the heli not their brain.

There are no screening for pilots to be allowed to fly at funflies. If someone is out there to prove something, and write a check he can't cash, we only hope that we catch that early enough to stop that person from injuring others. There is nothing available to stop him from doing stuff that is way beyond his grasp the first time. Current safety check is that you (rest at the funfly) have to SEE that and be convinced that the person is not capable of doing what he is doing or attempting to do. Often, the flying HAS to get dangerous enough before someone will step up and do something about it.

If you start pilot screening at fun-flies, many will not show up on such fun-flies. How can we be certain that what the pilot did is what he intended to do with wild and chatic nature of 3D flying?

I have no solution to this as putting a minimum skill test will prevent many innocent novice pilots from enjoying the event as Fboss has mentioned.

www.justinchi.com
05-02-2008 03:33 PM
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
alf1096
Senior Heliman
Location: TX

I read the first post and thats it but I will say at our field we have an 8 year old that comes out and flies with his dad. All I will say is if my heli is in half the positions his is you need to take off running. This kid is amazing and a great pilot. If children are young they have to get to the field by there parents.
05-02-2008 03:33 PM
 
 
red_z06
Key Veteran
Location: Dumont, NJ

RonHill:

Quote 
You should not teach these kids about safety. They will become your worst nightmare and become your personal safety police and take a way all your carefree fun. It is no fun being called out by a 5 year old that you did a dangerous move.

Is my point "Don't teach kids about safety"?

www.justinchi.com
05-02-2008 03:36 PM
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
whirlyspud
Veteran
Location: USA

Ron, I think you missed that Red was being sarcastic. At least that is how I took it.

Mike
05-02-2008 03:38 PM
 
 
RappyTappy
Elite Veteran
Location: Las Vegas, NV

The only thing that bothers me about the young pilots is that I wasn't one of them, I have always had to work for my stuff, no free rides on this heli wagon.

Chris

Logo 500 3D

Forever Brothers
Mickey Tylo
05-02-2008 03:39 PM
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
whirlyspud
Veteran
Location: USA

I look at it like this. There are pilots that can't do certain things. I don't consider that much of a safety problem. I certainly would not say you can't fly here because you can't do a flaming stick banging hobnober. If they know their limits and stay within them I don't see them being any more dangerous than anyone else. My personal problem is people that fail to respect minimum distances. I don't care who the hell you are. If you get your machine too close to me, we are going to have a problem.

Mike
05-02-2008 03:47 PM
 
 
RonHill
Veteran
Location: ..

red_z06

Quote 
Is my point "Don't teach kids about safety"?

You said, "You should not teach these kids about safety. They will become your worst nightmare and become your personal safety police and take a way all your carefree fun. It is no fun being called out by a 5 year old that you did a dangerous move."
05-02-2008 03:51 PM
 
 
red_z06
Key Veteran
Location: Dumont, NJ

whirlyspud:

Quote 
You should not teach these kids about safety. They will become your worst nightmare and become your personal safety police and take a way all your carefree fun. It is no fun being called out by a 5 year old that you did a dangerous move.

If everyone's action is governed by a common sense, world would be a much safer place. It is when ego drives the action that things can get ugly. I have seen too many pilots (airplane and helis) doing manevers they should not have attempted <- key word! and never finish.

I constantly tell people that they need to push their boundary to move ahead and get better. But, there is a difference between pushing the boundary and attempting a quantum leap.

www.justinchi.com
05-02-2008 03:56 PM
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
whirlyspud
Veteran
Location: USA

Again Ron, You fail to comprehend his real message. Granted it is hard sometimes with sarcasm, but the sentence you highlighted is not at all what is really being said. At least not as I took it.

Maybe I misunderstood it, but I took Red's intent to be that the kid's will stay within the rules you set, and they will also see the hipocracy when someone older fails to follow the same rules. Hence being called out by a 5 yr old for your actions. Is that what you meant Red?

Mike
05-02-2008 03:57 PM
 
 
RonHill
Veteran
Location: ..

red_z06

Quote 
If everyone's action is governed by a common sense, world would be a much safer place

100% Agree...Now, how much common sense does a 4 year old have?
05-02-2008 04:00 PM
 
 
whirlyspud
Veteran
Location: USA

It depends on the 4yr old. I think what many of us are trying to point out is that many of the younger pilots heed the rules much better than the adults. I agree with Red. It gives the kid's a screwed up message when they are told the rules and then they constantly see older supposedly more mature pilots breaking the same rules.

Mike
05-02-2008 04:08 PM
 
 
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