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Radio - Futaba FASST > Lock out 2.4 Ghz on 9ZHS Problem Found and Fixed!!
 
 
pavan_mex
Senior Heliman
Location: Leon, Mexico

READ BELOW BUT IT WAS ME!!!

It is 9:50pm here in Mexico. At around 6:30pm today my 8ch Futaba 2.4Ghz (TM8) module on a Futaba 9Zhs locked out.

Equipment:

Raptor Titan 50
OS50
401 / 9254
3 9252 and 1 3151 (accel)
Electrifly 2100 lipo 11.1V Align 10Amp regulator
Throttle Jockey rev max

I was doing hover and the heli just stopped responding. It jerked for a while in tune with with radio inputs then went down. Lost main blades, boom, servo tray, canopy, links, spindle etc.
The engine revved up on impact and I could not turn it off and have also lost the clutch.

There were two more people to witness the incident. One has about 7 to 8 years on helis. When the system was re-started it worked ok.

I have now clue why...I will post pictures tomorrow morning. and do another complete post crash check.

Anyone else????

So many years wasted on plankers...!!!!
05-02-2008 03:57 AM
 
 
haggy38
Senior Heliman
Location: Bogotá - Colombia

Have you checked RX battery?

Gustavo
05-02-2008 04:02 AM
 
 
pavan_mex
Senior Heliman
Location: Leon, Mexico

Yes, checked everything. Battery was and still is good. It was the first flight of the day.

So many years wasted on plankers...!!!!
05-02-2008 04:03 AM
 
 
steph280
Key Veteran
Location: Irvine, California

what was the ambient temperature?

Reason I ask is the big discussion about these receivers failing at 164F degrees. I still dont understand how such temperature can be reached in a receiver, but then again I don't live in Arizona.
05-02-2008 05:21 AM
 
 
tgo
Senior Heliman
Location: HK

Hi pavan,
I have a few questions regarding your setup....
1. I never see Align has a 10Amp regulator !
2. All Align regulator should be powered by a 2 cell lipo not 3 cell lipo ! if you use a 3 cell lipo, you may damage or overheat the regulator !

Quote 

Equipment:

Raptor Titan 50
OS50
401 / 9254
3 9252 and 1 3151 (accel)
Electrifly 2100 lipo 11.1V Align 10Amp regulator
Throttle Jockey rev max
05-02-2008 06:28 AM
 
 
phattalon
Senior Heliman
Location: Muncie In

I am also going to agree with tgo. The align reg is designed for 2s lipo no matter what model. If you put a 3s in the reg is working much harder to bring the voltage down to 5.8v causing heat issues and the overall amperage output is devreased because of this.

Jason Russell
05-02-2008 02:07 PM
 
 
ErichF
Key Veteran
Location: Odessa, FL 33556 (Tampa Area)

If you had set your failsafes properly, ie, throttle to idle, you should have seen the engine drop to idle as it went into lockout. If you did, and it didn't, the system did not lockout...it likely lost power. Seeing that you used an improper battery, this is most likely the case.
05-02-2008 02:39 PM
 
 
pavan_mex
Senior Heliman
Location: Leon, Mexico

My apologies,

In my stress after the crash. It is a Castle Creations BEC not Align.



I will post more pictures of the setup in a few minutes.

The fail safe seemed to work. The heli was hovering about 8 feet and went down straight. But, it happened so quick I or the other guys could not figure out if the fail safe kicked in or no.

Before that happened the heli did stay hovering for about 3 seconds while I knew I did not have control.

When we restarted the system, everything worked fine. I will be checking each and every cable with a magnifying glass as well.

Thanks for helping me get to the bottom of this.

So many years wasted on plankers...!!!!
05-02-2008 02:54 PM
 
 
pavan_mex
Senior Heliman
Location: Leon, Mexico

Pics added



I now remember that the engine revved up about 10 seconds after impact. The servo tray was broken and the battery disconnected.
The engine did not rev up during loss of radio control. As it was supposed to do with the fail safe factor.

So many years wasted on plankers...!!!!
05-02-2008 05:26 PM
 
 
fritzthecat
Key Veteran
Location: New Orleans

If the heli just hovered and engine speed did not change as you lost radio link then one of two things are likely:
1- you did not set up failsafe correctly.
2- the receiver experienced a loss of power.

Fritz

http://www.fritzthecat.info
'Send Money, Women and Guns!'
05-02-2008 08:15 PM
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
scary gary
Heliman
Location: Roosevelt UT

From CC webpage on the 10 amp BEC


Quote 
Peak: 10 amps
Continuous:
<12 volts input = 7 amps*
<24 volts input = 5 amps**Ratings are determined with a 5mph airflow on the BEC. Servo connectors are not rated for current in excess of 5 amps. Users are encouraged to replace the connectors if more than 5 amp currents are anticipated.

so with a 3S LiPo you could expect a max continuous delivery of ~ 7 amps, and they state that a single servo connector is only good for 5amps WITH a 5MPH airflow. Digital servos working reasonably hard surely pull more than 5amps combined, and who knows on airflow? Possibly it was just enough load to kill the BEC for a short time. That would explain the lack of change in RPM (No failsafe).

We have tried a CC 10amp BEC and had some very odd behavior even on the bench with just a light load. We decided to go with a SGP ReactorX, 15A continuous, 3 RX leads to spread the current over, and 6.0v or 6.8v to the cyclic with a 5.2v steady to the RX and gyro. Pricey, but a BIG boost in reliability.

-- Scary... because you should see the heli whenever I touch the TX --
05-02-2008 08:54 PM
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
rdalcanto
Key Veteran
Location: Salt Lake City, UT

Sounds like a power supply issue to me too. Check your battery switch as well. I went to failsafe switches years ago after I had a heavy duty switch fail on me in a hover.

Team MRC & Magnum Fuels
05-03-2008 05:15 AM
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
Wyn
Senior Heliman
Location: Oregon, USA

It can get spendy to troubleshoot by replacing stuff if the first iteration doesn't succeed. One possibility is to use a device like VoltMagic to show the lowest voltage at the RX (stirring the sticks fast on the ground, or in-flight). Another way; if you have access to a volt meter with high speed min/max (Fluke 187 or 189), is to measure the peak low voltage at the RX with the fluke meter on high speed capture.

My experience is that a bad/insufficient reg usually shows itself on the ground as short duration low voltage spikes that aren't long enough, or low enough to fail anything (yet). BTW- The typical Futaba 2.4 RX is good down to ~3 volts and the peak lows on any reg should be well above 4 volts. Wiggling connectors and wires while testing like this can help expose an intermittent bad connection.

Best of luck,

Wyn
VoltMagic
05-04-2008 01:51 AM
 
 
pavan_mex
Senior Heliman
Location: Leon, Mexico

Problem found. thanks everyone for helping me out here.

It was one of my solders. From the battery to the Castle Creations Bec.

Even though I had the solder inside a heat shrink it came loose and when I move the battery around it started sparking etc.

Problem found. Everything is ok except MY *&@$%^&* SOLDERING SKILLS.

Back to school for me.

It sure is nice to see a closure to this. Now I can fly peacefully.

So many years wasted on plankers...!!!!
05-06-2008 10:20 PM
 
 
pavan_mex
Senior Heliman
Location: Leon, Mexico

Oh Yes...and ehmmmmm mmmm beg your pardon Mr. Futaba!!!

So many years wasted on plankers...!!!!
05-06-2008 10:23 PM
 
 
JuanRodriguez
Elite Veteran
Location: Rochester, New York

Don't sweat it , pavan....

Time and time again, statistics will show that it's usually user malfunction vs equipment failure.....

Glad you found your problem !!
05-07-2008 03:46 AM
 
 
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Radio - Futaba FASST > Lock out 2.4 Ghz on 9ZHS Problem Found and Fixed!!
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