RunRyder - RAPTOR 50 slight tail drift to the right, Whats the issue?

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Thunder Tiger Raptors 30-90 - Imperio > RAPTOR 50 slight tail drift to the right, Whats the issue?

Slim pickins
Senior Heliman
Location: Clarkston Michigan

I have a rappy 50 with a ys 50/hatori 522, the 401 and 9254. I dont know if the engine isnt tuned properly or what but the damn tail keeps drifting to the right (slowly). I though it was the gyro tape i was using (very sticky and somewhat spongy). I switched to some icg gyro tape (really spongy but not so sticky) but havent gotten a chance to try it out yet. Servo is on the boom, not attached to the frame.

Whats the deal?

P.s. I am having a bit** of a time gettin the ys in check, the gv-1 keeps overcompensating. Like when it enters the first preset headspeed it will over rev and then slow down. It doesnt seem like it wants to lock in idle 1,2, or 3. Head speeds are 1650, 1800, 1900 with the 8.72 gearing. Oh yea running the GV-1

Lots of issues and gettin really frustrated with this shiznit.

Release the EVIL!!!!

04-29-2008 05:55 AM

Pull-n-Pitch
Senior Heliman
Location: Mt. Dora, Florida (USA)

Rotorblades--
"I don't know if the engine is tuned properly"????
You have mentioned three subsequent things here!
1)Get your engine tuned right! Period. You can't move forward on your questions till the engine screams and idles on command! Their is no "Magic settings" we can give you because the climate, Elevation and other factors change daily.... Find Local help!

2)Use the Grey 3M tape on the gyro's, if you can't find it, use the factory stuff and clean and apply it properly... ISSUE RESOLVED!

3)Don't even open the door on the GV-1 Governor if you "are not sure the engine is adjusted properly" --- HOW do you govern a engine that isn't running right?? No seriously?? Think about what you asked!

So to respond, Find some local help, get the engine running right! IF it's not running correctly it will throw the governor! So start at ground Zero, Get the engine right (disconnect the damn GV1) and get your game on... you don't need to control a out of control engine that isn't adjusted to run right! NOW, with governor still disconnected, get your governor right! Do a search there is only like 300 links in RR on Gyro set up.... Pick one.....
NOW when you got the engine running right, the gyro tracking and kicking A*s, NOW look at your governor..... You are looking at too many things at one time in a single post.

I may sound "direct" but re-read your question posted... You mention three problems that could all be the first one!
Give it a try, what I said and let us know how it works out... YOU can't fly or tune electronics till the mechanicals work......

04-29-2008 06:46 AM

RaptorMan23
Senior Heliman
Location: USA

???

Number one, if your having so many problems with the GV-1, personally Id just get rid of it and go back to throttle curves and your problem is solved. I am thinking that your tail drift problem is most likely connected with your GV1 problem. You said that your rpms are changing and that will make your tail drift if you loose enough headspeed. I dont know if this is a new helicopter or one that youve had forever and these problems are just popping up but Ill ask anyway, are your tail blades and grips on right? That is a pretty common mistake. Also make sure you have your tail endpoints all figured out. Let me know if you get it figured out, good luck

Helicopters have a mind of their own!!!

04-29-2008 06:54 AM

flying buffalo
Senior Heliman
Location: Darwin, NT, Australia

I agree with PNP and RM and also sounds like your gv-1 sensor is faulty. Just replaced mine because of the same mentioned problems you are gettings. Now gv-1 works again. cheers

04-29-2008 07:55 AM

TachyonDriver
Senior Heliman
Location: Chipping, Lancs, UK

Do you have to get the tail mechanically set up in rate mode on the 401 so that with neutral yaw trim and hover pitch/throttle the tail doesn't drift, or at least very close to no-drift?

I have an older HH gyro and it drifts slightly. I tend to let the heli acclimatise to the ambient temperature before flying - power the heli up whilst organising flight box connections and then fuelling. After it's fuelled, I then reset the heli.

Tach.

Little Spinning Bundle of Joy®

04-29-2008 01:17 PM

Slim pickins
Senior Heliman
Location: Clarkston Michigan

Ok, Ok,

Try not to be so harsh fellas. Thats why I asked...

I've never owned a ys 50 b-4 and it's getting the best of me right now. I know thats the first order of buisness. But with my os 50's i always tuned with the gv-1 active and programmed and never had an issue, not one. I actually find its easier to tune an engine with a fixed headspeed rather than on a moving throttle curve.

Yes the tail is set up correctly as per instructions. It's pretty much a new bird, I did lose the collective servo (stripped) and had bad incounter with the ground, but replaced all shafts-broken parts.

No, I dont have the tail set up for non heading hold, its never out of heading hold (I know I cheat, but it's always worked in the past). It is set up mechanically correct though, full travel with the slider with no binding. And I do let it acclimate b/4 use.

Im not a newbee folks, just frustrated with this new engine...

Release the EVIL!!!!

04-29-2008 02:10 PM

BarracudaHockey
rrMaster
Location: Orange Park FL

Rich engines will drive a governor batty, some are more sensitive to it than others and I've never been all that worked up about gv1s though they do work.

I'd suggest the 3m outdoor mounting tape, grey with red backing and available at any wallymart. Use two layers for a nitro, you don't dont want anything execessively spoongy, and I'd look for something bent causing vibration. Tail output shaft, main shaft, maybe the engine is mis-aligned or something or a bearing was damaged in the crash that you didn't catch.

Center of slider setup is fine, though the 4.5mm trick works as well and gives plenty of throw if set for no binding and thats about as close as you need to a rate mode setup on a raptor.

AMA 77227
http://www.jaxrc.com

04-29-2008 03:22 PM

Slim pickins
Senior Heliman
Location: Clarkston Michigan

Gonna try to play with the engine tonight... It's weird, when the gv-1 does find 1650 in normal mode the tail is solid, but when flipped into idle 1 which is 1800 it starts the drift, and in idle 2 1900 it really starts to get unhappy.

If the icg tape doesnt work i'll make a trip to get the 3m tape after working with the motor of course...

thanks, I'll keep you all posted.

Release the EVIL!!!!

04-29-2008 03:37 PM

pH7
Key Veteran
Location: Sterling Heights, MI - USA

Most people honed in on your engine problem. A slow, consistent tail drift is usually caused by accidental tail input due to a trim somewhere. You didn't mention what type of radio you have. Many radios have a different trim setting for each flight mode and that can cause drift.

Without starting the engine, check the following:

1-Turn on the Tx and set the gyro gain switch to HH mode.
2-Turn on the heli and verify that the red light on the gyro comes on solid after a few seconds of flashing. If not, you aren't really in HH mode.
3-Switch to idle up and verify that the red light on the gyro stays solid. If not, you have a different rudder trim value in normal and idleup.
4-If you typically use more than one idleup flight mode, check the others the same way.
5-Being careful to give NO rudder input, move the collective up and down and verify that the light stays solid. If not, check for REVO mix or any other mix adding rudder input.

If the red light is solid for all the tests, Try upping the gyro gain.

04-29-2008 05:03 PM

Slim pickins
Senior Heliman
Location: Clarkston Michigan

Forgot to mention that I am getting an excess amount of vibration resonating through the tail as well as a sort of high pitched wha wha at high headspeeds, so long story short stripped her down, (I new I had poor mainshaft bearings, so those were the reason for the tear down). But I found something interesting... I think my bell is out of whack. it's a little wobbly when I spin it on the start shaft whilst holding it. You cant see it but you can feel it. So i'll replace the main bearings and the bell and see if that cant cure some of my ailments.

Ph7, i'll try your suggestions when I get her rebuilt. I know im in HH in norm, but never really looked at it in 1 or 2.... There is no subtrim in the rudder and revo is definitley inhibited in all modes. And my trim is never touched on the rudder, even if it was I have it set up to not change in different modes, using the 9z wc2.

I'll keep you posted.

Release the EVIL!!!!

04-30-2008 02:48 AM

jschenck
Elite Veteran
Location: La Vista, NE.

Quote
I know im in HH in norm, but never really looked at it in 1 or 2....

We ran into a problem where a guy's heli at the field held fine in normal mode but would drift in idle-up. Turned out he had rudder trim in idle-1 and idle-2 but not in normal mode as his radio was setup for separate trims in each mode. So check the radio in all modes, I know the 9Z can be tricky.

Also, with the clutch bell you might try putting it on a high point balancer. Spinning it on the starter shaft/pinion gear may not be accurate.

...yep...

04-30-2008 04:29 AM

BarracudaHockey
rrMaster
Location: Orange Park FL

Take a close look at the pinion bearing and see if its still a close fit on the pinion. The pinion is fairly soft compared to the bearing race and if they arent green locktited in place they can wallow away the pinion and cause play.

AMA 77227
http://www.jaxrc.com

04-30-2008 03:00 PM

Slim pickins
Senior Heliman
Location: Clarkston Michigan

Just waiting on the new bell right now. Should have it in tonight. Will green lockite the pinion/bearing when I install the new bell. It was a bit** to remove the pinion off the bearing in the first place so I believe it was not sloppy, but I will green them Just in case.

Release the EVIL!!!!

05-01-2008 06:35 PM

Slim pickins
Senior Heliman
Location: Clarkston Michigan

GOT IT!!!

Not sure if It was the clutch, bearings or all the RTV inside my engine creating the problem but its fixed now.

Word to the wise DONT USE RTV on your muffler/engine connection. At least not on the YS's. Somehow it pulled it into the engine and was causing lots of tuning issues. After disassembling, cleaning, and reinstalling the entire engine at the field today the rappy was much happier. I guess it doesnt like chewing on chunks of high temp RTV. I just hope I didn't screw up the engine for the long haul.

The tail is solid as a rock, the engine still needs a little work to get it perfect but that will come with time. Had tons of fun with her today....

Thanks for all the suggestions fellas...

Release the EVIL!!!!

05-05-2008 03:24 AM

BarracudaHockey
rrMaster
Location: Orange Park FL

Your lucky, it usually snuffs the glow plug immediately.

AMA 77227
http://www.jaxrc.com

05-05-2008 03:44 PM

Slim pickins
Senior Heliman
Location: Clarkston Michigan

It did a couple of times... I removed it and saw what I thought was just a lot of unspent fuel/oil in there. When I hooked the igniter up to it it burt right away without any trace of the RTV in there. It's really weird though... I never had a problem with the RTV/OS engines before. Must have crazy exhaust porting on the sleeve for the YS's.

Release the EVIL!!!!

05-06-2008 03:41 PM

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Thunder Tiger Raptors 30-90 - Imperio > RAPTOR 50 slight tail drift to the right, Whats the issue?

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