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JR Heli Vibe - Airskipper - Sylphide - Venture > HELP!!! Vigor CS Warbeling problem
 
 
drtoothfixer
Senior Heliman
Location: Richland, WA

I just rebuilt my Vigor CS. I got it used, and tore it down & checked a bunch of stuff on it. The only problem I found was a bent headblock.

I relpaced the head block, mast, spindle, flybar, and installed the upgrade (O-ring) head dampening system. Everything in the head is new. I also replaced and sized all linkages. Everything is parallel, and all control pushrods are the same length. Blades are tracking great!

I fly the 9C, YS80, 601, GV-1, 9252 servos. Blades are tight, but not as tight as I would like to say, do autos.

At 1500 rpm head speed, it's steady as a rock. At the idle up position (1650 or 1750 RPMs) the whole ship kind of "warbles" and seems to oscilate. I have seen Brand new Raptors do it, but no other machines. One of the guys who owned the raptor said it quit after he flew it a bit. Like something relaxed in the machine.

I have NO IDEA what to do here. Can anybody help?

Thanks,
Trevor
04-05-2003 Over year old.
 
 
drtoothfixer
Senior Heliman
Location: Richland, WA

update

Ok, here's an update. I haven't owned a shaft driven tail in a while. I just pulled the heli mostly apart, got all the tail pushrod guides off and pulled the torque tube. The tail has a bend in 2 places. One where it exits the mechanics,and another where the boom clamp attaches. All things being equal, I am going to assume that was the problem. Any ideas? A compound bend in the tail with 2 support bearings. Seems like that make the heli do what it was doing.

Trevor

Ok, just spoke with a couple of guys from the field. they said they saw CY bend one over his knee to "straighten" it after it went in, and it flew fine after. I'm going to assume that my slight bend isn't the problem after all
04-05-2003 Over year old.
 
 
drtoothfixer
Senior Heliman
Location: Richland, WA

any help?

Anybody out there have any help to offer?
04-05-2003 Over year old.
 
 
sreuss
Senior Heliman
Location: Ontario, Canada

You've changed the head damping...

Hi,

I'm assuming that everything is straight and balanced. If not, then these factors will aggrevate the wobbles you observed.

This is a common problem when you change the head damping (e.g. o-rings, and/or main blades to be more or less stiff). Temperature will also affect things; colder temps make things more stiff. For most helis, there is a head speed where this wobbling occurs. Essentially, the damping doesn't work properly.

Given the above, you have a few things that you can do:
- use softer (or stiffer) O-rings to change the head speed were the wobbling occurs - hopefully you'll move it to range that you don't use for flying
- use a different head speed (e.g. hover at a lower head speed, and do aerobatics at a higher speed)
- use different main blades - stiff carbon blades can make the rotor head (as a complete unit) too stiff.
- wait for warmer temeratures - you'll be surprised how much difference a few degrees makes in terms of softening up the rotor head
04-06-2003 Over year old.
 
 
DavinChevalier
Heliman
Location: Overland park .Ks

Help!!!

On our vigors if it is not perfect we will replace with new.Anything bent may be able to fix .I would buy a new one and fix the other when I have time but with two bends it would be in my trash can . Davin
04-06-2003 Over year old.
 
 
drtoothfixer
Senior Heliman
Location: Richland, WA

Thanks

Thank you for the replies. Yes, everything is straight. Is there anything else I should check for balance besides main blades? I KNOW the thrust bearings are in correctly. I have checked that so many times, just to be sure

I am running Maverik 700's, and they were CG'd and balanced with no problems. I will try to use different O-rings in the head tomorrow and see if that helps.

As I stated, EVERYTHING else in the mast/spindle/head complex is brand new!

Any other suggestions still welcome!!

Trevor
04-06-2003 Over year old.
 
 
Marcus Kim
Heliman
Location: SOUTH CAROLINA

My vigor cs had the same problem. While doing a demo it started to oscilate just in idle up. Landed and checked everything. Seemed ok until it made a zip noise and the tail went out. Found out that the tail gearbox had cracked and the gears started to grind and eventually gave out. The oscilation may be a hint about something that may occur. Mayb your problem could be in your tail section. Just my oppinion. Hope you find the problem.
04-06-2003 Over year old.
 
 
Marcus Kim
Heliman
Location: SOUTH CAROLINA

My vigor cs had the same problem. While doing a demo it started to oscilate just in idle up. Landed and checked everything. Seemed ok until it made a zip noise and the tail went out. Found out that the tail gearbox had cracked and the gears started to grind and eventually gave out. The oscilation may be a hint about something that may occur. Mayb your problem could be in your tail section. Mayb some friction in the tail gears grease it up good. Just my oppinion. Hope you find the problem.
04-06-2003 Over year old.
 
 
drtoothfixer
Senior Heliman
Location: Richland, WA

thank you

Thank you marcus. I took the tail out yesterday, but did not disassemble the gear box. I will do that prior to flying again. I am not totally convinced it's a problem with the head. I suspect the tail as a possibility, too.

Trevor
04-06-2003 Over year old.
 
 
sreuss
Senior Heliman
Location: Ontario, Canada

Oh yeah...

Another thing you need to, do if you haven't already, is to grease the o-rings in the head. Use non-petroleum based grease (e.g. ceramic). This will also act to soften up the head.

I can't over-emphasize that this occurs with essentially all helis (actually rotor heads) under the right combination of conditions - even if everything is straight and balanced. I think that, given everything is new, you should focus on the head damping (o-rings, temperature, and grease).

Best of luck to you,
04-07-2003 Over year old.
 
 
drtoothfixer
Senior Heliman
Location: Richland, WA

Thank you

Thanks to all who have replied so far. Steve, I'll be checking that stuff out tomorrow evening. I'm taking my other O-rings with me to the field and I'll be changing them and checking it out again.

Trevor
04-07-2003 Over year old.
 
 
JCadwell
Key Veteran
Location: Richland WA/ Morro Bay, CA

Any luck with the Vigor? I was hoping to make it out this weekend, and never did. Finally got the Fury back in the air though...

Thanks, John Cadwell
04-07-2003 Over year old.
 
 
corey11
Elite Veteran
Location: Bay Area, California

is it tipping foward and back wards? side to side??
04-08-2003 Over year old.
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
drtoothfixer
Senior Heliman
Location: Richland, WA

Problem Solved!! Thanks

Ja1010, you hit it right on the head! I had installed the revolution upgrade, and I wish I'd seen your post earlier! I took it out today, and pulled the hard o-ring out. I had placed in on the inside, not towards the blade, and when I removed it, the problem disappeared. I'd like to harden up the dampening a bit, so I may try to find an intermediate one, or try to wear in the hard o-ring a bit.

BUT PROBLEM IS SOLVED! I can't tell you how relieved I am!

Thanks again to all. Hopefull word will get out with the Revolution O-ring kit that this may be a problem.

Trevor
04-08-2003 Over year old.
 
 
drtoothfixer
Senior Heliman
Location: Richland, WA

Thanks

that's the setup I have. Are you using the stock washer, as well as the one supplied in the kit? I have the stock one inboard, the one with the kit just outside that one.

Trevor
04-09-2003 Over year old.
 
 
Tulsaboy
Senior Heliman
Location: Tulsa, Okie-la-homie

Check the blade grips closely..if there is any play in them, up and down, sideways, throw them away...Also take the blade thrust bearings out and make sure they are installed correctly...IE, inner and outer races are positioned accordingly.....just some suggestions...later...
04-26-2003 Over year old.
 
 
drtoothfixer
Senior Heliman
Location: Richland, WA

tulsaboy

thanks, but the problem was definitely the dampening. problem has been solved, and it's flying great!
04-26-2003 Over year old.
 
 
Xyzzy
Heliman
Location: Raleigh, North Carolina

I thought question #429 sounded like you...
04-26-2003 Over year old.
 
 
drtoothfixer
Senior Heliman
Location: Richland, WA

took me a minute

It took me a mintue to figure out what you were talking about, but I figured it out. Hopefully I won't need CY to help me out anymore.
04-26-2003 Over year old.
 
 
Tulsaboy
Senior Heliman
Location: Tulsa, Okie-la-homie

Great to hear that...it's always a relief to get a problem fixed..... saw where it had fixed the problem...just wanted to give you some other to look at that can give crazy hard to find problems..esp when no blades will track...or it has the shakes.......good luck flying....
04-27-2003 Over year old.
 
 
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JR Heli Vibe - Airskipper - Sylphide - Venture > HELP!!! Vigor CS Warbeling problem
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