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Radio - Futaba FASST > From the Futaba Forum........Heat and 2.4Ghz Rx!
 
 
rexxigpilot
Senior Heliman
Location: florida

I'll take some of those crappy old 6014's too at a reasonable price! I was really hoping someone would post a scare thread that I could take advantage of. Just call me the Republican.
05-06-2008 11:36 PM
 
 
summerwind
New Heliman
Location: fresno, ca

when i receive my 10C sometime after it's release, i will be wanting to part with the 6014 Rx and will be replacing it with the 608............if anyone is interested, let me know as i will sell it for the best offer.
i'm not selling it because of this heat issue either, it's just too big for my needs.
05-07-2008 01:52 AM
 
 
wonderboy
Senior Heliman
Location: Southeast, MI

My 401 is too buried in my heli, so I'm not planning on testing it. I did put my 319DPS (72MHz Synth PCM) in the chamber and ran it up to 160F case temp (175F ambient) and it was still functioning fine. I didn't want to run it any hotter as this is starting to actually feel hot to the touch.

At 140F, the 607 that I tested did not feel incredibly hot. I was able to comforrably hold it in my hand. I agree, on heli's this is a non-issue. However, I do fly fixed wing also, and have a dark colored aircraft. I understand that it isn't unreasonable to have to keep the aircraft in the shade, and follow some basic rules to keep the aircraft cool. But just the fact that this thing quits in a region where the previous generation of equipment (72 MHz) appears to work fine bothers me. This is just one more precaution to worry about.

FYI: There is a thread tracking this issue on the official radio manufacturers support forum on RC universe. I haven't checked today, but yesterday there was no news. Futaba USA is waiting on Futaba Japan to provide a response.

http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_7443726/tm.htm

I think another follow on test is to stick my plane in the sun next time I'm at the field (Michigan) and see how hot it actually gets in there at normal midwestern state temperatures.
05-07-2008 02:32 PM
 
 
Four Stroker
Veteran
Location: Atlanta

The previous generation of equipment wasn't s/w based and running on a micro-processor. Mil Spec / Industrial parts are available which run up to 80C = 176F. Some in-dash automotive parts run up to 85C and a small number of under-hood parts up to 105C. The radio manufacturers need to rethink this a little bit.

In a heli where the entire back of the canopy is open to the air, the equipment should not get much above ambient. Of course someone will mount their receiver on top of the regulator heatsink and use a 3 cell pack and complain that the equipment is no damn good.
05-07-2008 02:56 PM
 
 
ErichF
Key Veteran
Location: Odessa, FL 33556 (Tampa Area)

Quote 
Of course someone will mount their receiver on top of the regulator heatsink and use a 3 cell pack and complain that the equipment is no damn good.

No doubt!
05-07-2008 03:00 PM
 
 
steph280
Key Veteran
Location: Irvine, California

Did you know Futaba's biggest business is/was those digital flourscent displays used in GM cars? Those are built to withstand heat in cars, so you would expect they should know a thing or two about operation temp range...
05-08-2008 04:54 PM
 
 
Four Stroker
Veteran
Location: Atlanta

I think it would be reasonable for RC stuff to have the Mil. Spec. temp. range. Has anyone baked a servo ? battery pack ? regulator ? gyro ? Is the receiver really the weakest link ? (other than the pilot)
05-09-2008 02:28 AM
 
 
summerwind
New Heliman
Location: fresno, ca

is it just the 6014 that is having issues?

i bought 2 608's recently, but haven't used them as i'm waiting for the 10C
if the 608's are prone to this as well, then i will return them.
05-10-2008 02:31 PM
 
 
ErichF
Key Veteran
Location: Odessa, FL 33556 (Tampa Area)

Quote 
if the 608's are prone to this as well, then i will return them.

WHY?

Do you have this strong desire to leave your stuff sitting out in the sun to bake?

Like has been repeated several times, this is a NON-FLIGHT issue. If the system is overheated, it won't let you fly. If your heli is getting over 140F inside the canopy during flight, you got larger issues.
05-10-2008 03:01 PM
 
 
summerwind
New Heliman
Location: fresno, ca

why you ask?
because i am now concerned about these issues...........i am not flying copters, but rather WW1 aircraft of which i have put an enormous amount of time and money into them.

so like everyone else, i am wanting to know the facts of what has been posted here.

try putting a couple thousand hours into something like this,
http://www.proctor-enterprises.com/.../nieuport28.htm

and then finding out that the radio equipment you have chosen may let you down at a moments notice...........
05-10-2008 04:31 PM
 
 
ErichF
Key Veteran
Location: Odessa, FL 33556 (Tampa Area)

Quote 
and then finding out that the radio equipment you have chosen may let you down at a moments notice...........

Show me one radio system that's immune to that.

I just had a $30,000 UAV go down today for no good reason. They ALL work until they don't.
05-11-2008 02:21 AM
 
 
03fomoco
Senior Heliman
Location: Tucson AZ

How hot an Aircraft can get

We posted this over on FG and this shows how hot an aircraft gets in the sun and it was only 88 degrees ambient. This might be an issue for the scale heli guys. We are still walking a fine line with a heli on a 110 degree day...

From Flying Giants and FASST thread.

Ok,
I am in the same boat and was able to fail a 6014 on the bench at 165 degrees, so I shelved them all for now and wanted to see how hot an aircraft really got.

Testing was crude but effective for our use. I used a Fluke meter and also an indoor outdoor thermometer. First we checked the "cheap" thermometer against the Fluke and it was within +/- 2 degrees as we let them stabilize from an air conditioned car to direct sunlight. The aircraft was a Comp ARF 3m Extra with no cans and a sealed unvented fuselage.

The first picture shows the ambient temperature taken half way between the ground and the aircraft. The second shows the temperature taken from the left rear canopy mount bolt hole and the probe under the pilot head "fiberglass" light in color. The third picture is alarming and was a surprise. It was 88 degrees out and under the lexan canopy in direct sunlight the temperature was 156 degrees with an ambient of 88. Wow.

Now for a very interesting flight test right? Ok, FASST on the shelf and two trusty 149dp mounted (this aircraft was not converted to FASST). We took the temperature saturated thermometer and reset the min/max readings and secured it in the aircraft to the wing tube. At the time of canopy install the temp had dropped to 130 degrees. We waited until it read over 150 degrees again and went for engine start. The flight was uneventful.

After flight immediately after shutdown the temp reading was 127 degrees, it was now 91 degrees ambient. We pulled the canopy to check the minimum reading in flight and (ready for this) the temperature was 102.7 in a sealed aircraft, so I guess it is not that well sealed.

Conclusions, an aircraft in the pits in the sun is possibly 52 degrees cooler in the air at 90 degrees ambient. The clear canopy on the Comp ARF is murder for everything inside. An aircraft with minimal ventilation still receives a fair amount of cooling.

Bad news is it was only 92 degrees today and it will be 110 in a month or so. Then what, sadly someone will most likely get hurt before the sky will fall. I think it is irresponsible for a company not to at a minimum state something like "some consumers have experienced heat related failures and product model # jhsdfkl should not be used until further notice for safety." Furthermore they should halt the distribution of the product. Futaba is a large company and needs and wants to protect image but if someone is seriously injured image will mean nothing. I am sure they are working this and none of us are engineers on this product, but the simple fact is this product design does not meet the application requirements that past products did. In a situation like this, if it was known, education and informing the customer would be one of the first priorities.

Dave

Original thread:
http://www.flyinggiants.com/forums/...html#post453283



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05-11-2008 04:27 PM
 
 
rdalcanto
Key Veteran
Location: Salt Lake City, UT

I agree that this is a huge problem for Futaba. This is an design flaw in terms of the chip used to build the receiver. I'm sure planks make up the majority of their sales, and there are going to be problems this summer from the looks of things. Personally, I think they need to recall every receiver made with this defect.

Team MRC & Magnum Fuels
05-11-2008 06:44 PM
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crash n' burn99
Senior Heliman
Location: ottawa, canada

How does the monocote on the plains survive these high temps, it must get real tight?

I live in canada and up here our equipment never gets nearly that hot! But I find it interesting that some of these models are getting that hot. I would be really concered about running lipo batteries in that kind of an enviroment, and voltage regs probable wouldnt survive either. That probably explains why I read about so many voltage reg failures down south and have never seen one here!


I also seen somebody leave a set of heli blades in a car in the sun once and it got so hot that it warped the blades. So I guess it is possible. If i seen my equipment get that hot I would deffinately not try to fly it.

Just a note, I noticed on all of the lcd displays I have owned, when you leave them in the sun and they get hot, they are hard to read. I guess they are not imperviouse to the sun either.

50's are cool but 90's rule
05-11-2008 10:30 PM
 
 
03fomoco
Senior Heliman
Location: Tucson AZ

Monokote

Quote 
How does the monocote on the plains survive these high temps, it must get real tight?

Ultrakote does not show much effect until about 200+ degrees. Actually a well shrunk aircraft will wrinkle when taken from a cool garage to a sunny field. Never really even thought about it until now, not sure if the glue out gases or there is some covering expansion from the heat which is below the required heat to shrink the covering. The beauty of the Comp ARF's is that they are all fiberglass/carbon and painted in the mold, you can wax them or use pledge and they look outstanding.

Dave

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05-12-2008 01:21 AM
 
 
reckless loony
Senior Heliman
Location: MIA

Quote 
if you can, test a 401 gyo at 140F, I think its rated only for 113F or so.

Correct.

http://manuals.hobbico.com/fut/futm0807-manual.pdf

It has a mere 45deg C (113F) maximum temperature rating. The electronics are housed in a small black plastic case.

The gyro for the Raptor and Trex 600E is mounted on top at the back where it is exposed to full sunlight. Black is a great colour for soaking up heat.

Also keep in mind it is very popular and very reliable (better than JR gyro’s). So why haven’t people whinged about GY401 failures?

I also have a few of those gyros and have on occasionally flown a heli fitted with one on a 38deg C (100F) day including a Raptor and Trex 600E. Mind you my heli's are under cover in the shade and then get flown 10 minutes then get placed back under shade. I have not had any GY401’s fail.

Mind you on hot days like that though I tend to be in front of an air conditioner or out scuba diving rather than be doing RC.

People at the club generally tend to stop flying when it starts to get that hot and end up going home.

As for Lipo batteries maximum permitted operating temperature is 60 deg C (140F).

A lot of the RC stuff isn’t rated past 60 deg C

e.g. Hitec servos

http://www.hitecrcd.com/product_fil...1/HS-6975HB.pdf

Maximum temperature is 60deg C (140F).

Sanyo industrial Nicd batteries

http://sanyo.wslogic.com/pdf/pdfs/KR-2300SCE.pdf

Maximum temperature (discharge) is 60deg C (140F).

Futaba GY190 gyro

http://manuals.hobbico.com/fut/g190-manual.pdf

same as GY401 maximum temperature 45deg C (113F).

Most RC products just don’t have a operating temperature range stated. Spektrum uses Cypress IC’s, which are rated for 85deg C (185F) but what about the other components in their Rx’s?

Futaba in their FAQ have a comment with regards to operating temperature.

http://www.futabarc.com/faq/product-faq.html#q879
05-12-2008 10:56 PM
 
 
Four Stroker
Veteran
Location: Atlanta

Looks like 0 to 70C

http://download.cypress.com.edgesui.../cyrf6936_8.pdf
05-13-2008 02:43 AM
 
 
Tomas Ahl
Senior Heliman
Location: Linköping, Sweden

Quote 
The gyro for the Raptor and Trex 600E is mounted on top at the back where it is exposed to full sunlight. Black is a great colour for soaking up heat.
Yes, but mounting it there will provide it with a pretty hefty fan to keep it cool too.

So as long as we keep them out of direct sunlight while on ground, I don't think there is a problem in this situation.
05-13-2008 08:17 AM
 
 
Hirobofly
Senior Heliman
Location: Horten, Norway

Quote 
Looks like 0 to 70C

http://download.cypress.com.edgesui.../cyrf6936_8.pdf

JR/Spektrum should do a recall due to poor design and possible creating dangerous situations by using their system!
Below 0 C is a normal temperature in Scandinavia 6 months out of the year!

JR/Spektrum should recall all their SS-receivers, and issue a refund to all that have crashed a helicopter using their system. This could be the cause of the crash! I heard from a friend that had a friend that read something on a forum somewhere, so this is a fact!
It is a design-flaw that it does not have an operating temp of -40 to +85 C. All receivers with this defect must be taken back.
RECALL!!!! RECALL!!! RECALL all Spektrum system!!!!!!!
05-13-2008 10:38 AM
 
 
greg
Key Veteran
Location: Yorkville, IL

It is easy to make light of a problem as long as you are not the one having it.

Team Radix, Quick UK Flight Team, Team Rave
05-13-2008 01:50 PM
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Radio - Futaba FASST > From the Futaba Forum........Heat and 2.4Ghz Rx!
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