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Aerial Photography and Video > Whats your slowest shutter ?
 
 
FinnDave
Elite Veteran
Location: Kouvola, Finland

I think I have a good idea of who Walt is; there have been a couple of articles in the mags in the last couple of years, at least one of which used some of the pics he has posted here. A true professional.

David S., Kouvola, Finland
04-10-2003 Over year old.
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
MPA
Elite Veteran
Location: Australia

John no-one disputes Walts ability and experience, he has posted some of the best shots here to date and there is no need to divert this into defence of Walt since there is no attack on him.
Plain to see he is good at it.
The point here is information.
Specifically about vibration performance since that is going to be a limit to shutter speed.

Many of us have gear we have fabricated ourselves and may benefit from exchanging ideas on the performance of them and this is one that concerns all those developing their own gear.
Shutter speed levels are a fair way to judge the performance to vibration.
04-10-2003 Over year old.
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
cyhyam
Senior Heliman
Location: So. California

John, Dave,

Thank you for the kind words.

At one time I shot motion from helis, (35mm motion film). I helped develop the heli (35 pounds, 80” rotor) and camera platform, a 3 axis, gyro stabilized. We were in business for 5 years and shot all over the globe. The partnership broke up (1996).

In 1995 we were asked to present our equipment to the Academy of Motion Pictures for a “technical achievement award”, although we didn’t win it was quite an honor to be nominated.

Most jobs were commercials, music videos and a few movies; some jobs were too hazardous or impossible for full size helis to do. I miss the challenges that work presented and the opportunities to visit a lot of neat places.

I have one of the large helis left and have occasional fleeting thoughts of getting back into the motion biz.

Aerial Images is the still photo end of things and was put on the back burner during the movie work. It is owned by me, (no partners), so a bit easier to manage. I have found that the stills keep me very busy.

Sorry for the diversion.

FYI, Making a mount that dampens the vibration is secondary to removing the vibration from the heli.


Walt
04-11-2003 Over year old.
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MPA
Elite Veteran
Location: Australia

Walt

Id like to get in to Video but here that is 35mm motion at least or dont bother so Im not close the equipped to hand gear like that.
Oddly I get more requests to carry such gear than for stills but that'll change in time working with Greg.

"FYI, Making a mount that dampens the vibration is secondary to removing the vibration from the heli."

I think thats a given you need to get the vibes out of the heli but even if you do you still need a good dampening in the mount.
Im sure the 1/50 shots I can get off a 600 gram camera has a bit to do with the lack if vibration in the heli not just the mount.
04-11-2003 Over year old.
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cyhyam
Senior Heliman
Location: So. California

MPA,

I know it is common sense to remove the heli vibrations but most people think that if they don’t see a vibe on the airframe then it isn’t there. Your camera is telling a different story, as to what level people are able to reduce the vibes is up to the individual’s abilities. A dampened mount is only for final clean up of the last little bit, and usually it is engine vibes (high frequency) that we can’t easily reduce.

The main rotor turning at 1500 rpm will create a vibration of 1500 cycles per minute, or better stated 25 cycles per second. This means the vibration will be ½ cycle during the shutter movement As you have said The only way I can get some shots in focus is to rapid shoot a pile of them and out of those there are some that obtain focus. If the vibration frequency was one full cycle per shutter movement then you would never see a clear frame. My guess is your camera is picking up the vibration of the main rotor and sometimes your at a null (the top or bottom of the sine wave = clear photo) and other times your shutter travels when the vibration is on the side of the wave, (the vibration moves from one peak to the other = blur) a I can draw a picture if you don’t understand.

A simple test would be to attach a 12” – 18” balsa pointer to the camera, not the mount. I would put one straight ahead to indicate tilt and pan and one to the side for roll. Put the heli in a hover and observe the tips of the pointers.


Walt
04-12-2003 Over year old.
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MPA
Elite Veteran
Location: Australia

Yep im aware of what your refering to with the rotors I just am yet to make improvement them which is just a matter of buying them.

The rotors are stock size CF's, I have some exta room to move and planned to go up size in rotors.
Plus 1500 is pretty low and I have more room to move there to increase it as I say earlier if need be but not unless it is needed.

Ill see how the larger high lift rotors go on it and the raise the head speed if need be then.
04-12-2003 Over year old.
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Phil Clark
Heliman
Location: Working in Dubai UAE / from UK Newcastle

Faster speeds the better.
With these modern cameras / films and slide films you could take one shot at 2000 and another at 100 and you can not tell the difference.
However you have a better chance of keeping the entire shot pin sharp.
Read the text on the wheel cover.

Phil.
04-15-2003 Over year old.
 
 
MPA
Elite Veteran
Location: Australia

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04-15-2003 Over year old.
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
cyhyamSenior Heliman - Location: So. California -
An example:

1000th, ASA 200, f8

I have included a close up and distance crop.

The fuzziness of the zoom examples is due to the grain of the film, if the whole frame was printed that magnification it would result in a 50" print, not bad for 35mm film.








Walt
04-15-2003 Over year old.
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MPA
Elite Veteran
Location: Australia

Nice shot.
A bit bright with that sun but good detail and focus all the way back in it..
04-15-2003 Over year old.
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
cyhyamSenior Heliman - Location: So. California -
Here is one where DOF is a problem, again 1000th, but keep in mind the focus was set to 7 feet. The photo is of a freeway camera cluster. It sets on a pole about 50 – 70 feet up, I was hovering 5 feet away from it. The subject is sharp but the distance is not. This is a very unusual shot for us, normally we shoot at infinity which keeps everything in focus after 30+ feet, even at 1000th.




Walt
04-15-2003 Over year old.
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MPA
Elite Veteran
Location: Australia

Wow thats close.
Macro ;-)

Looking I'd say close enough a short DOF doesn't matter too much to the shot, the tower takes up most of it and an interesting enough subject itself.
A real short DOF just focusing on the tower could look quite good and amplify the height and distance to tower from the ground more so for effect plus still show the tower in detail.
04-15-2003 Over year old.
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Phil Clark
Heliman
Location: Working in Dubai UAE / from UK Newcastle

OK.
So I am still learning.
Planning to go back to UK in June to do a month of Aerials.
Since Aerial Photography is forbiden in this part of the world.
Hoping to make a portfolio.

So what you guys are saying is that if I should use the slowest possible shutter speed I should get more definition / depth of field / colour etc.

Guide me on this one.

Phil.
04-16-2003 Over year old.
 
 
cyhyam
Senior Heliman
Location: So. California

Phil,
I recommend you shoot at least a couple stops above your lenses widest opening. Then use a fast shutter speed to stop any heli motion. As you can see in my examples you can get good DOF at 1000th.

The theory that MPA is sharing is correct. A slower shutter speed requires a smaller aperture (for proper exposure). The smaller aperture uses the center of the lens (flatter) where the distortion is less. Point and shoot and smaller digital cameras don’t have the best lenses so the problem is more evident.

What hasn’t been taken into account is the motion of the heli. Let’s say you have a lens that does better DOF with a small aperture opening and you choose a slow shutter speed to allow that. In turn the motion of the heli blurs the distance, what have you gained?


Walt
04-16-2003 Over year old.
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
MPA
Elite Veteran
Location: Australia

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04-16-2003 Over year old.
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
cyhyam
Senior Heliman
Location: So. California

You will find that there are people that will are textbook educated but have little practical experience in the field. At the airport we call them “hanger pilots”. Theory is great but no substitute for experience.

FYI, low light angle shots, (first light, last light) although giving interesting colors and effects also create long lines on the groung from tall objects like poles and trees, etc. These are not issues that ground based photographers have to deal with.


Walt
04-16-2003 Over year old.
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
MPA
Elite Veteran
Location: Australia

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04-16-2003 Over year old.
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
cyhyam
Senior Heliman
Location: So. California

MPA,

Your advice is valuable, for sure.
I have been doing this for 14 years, full time. It is how I make my living. I am sure your friend Greg is a good photographer in the field he works in. I am also sure he doesn’t have the experience that myself or many others on this board have when it comes to “low level aerial photography”.

“If you have any award winning shots Walt then lets see one.” Look around I have been posting them, all these shots were paid for by clients. If you need to see a piece of paper certifying that they are award winning shots I have lots of them too,…..they have Ben Franklins face on them.

If you want to critique my shots go ahead, they feed my family, so the important people (my clients) must like them.

The example of the house that you said :” Your at the wrong end of the house and its clear to see"
That is the angle the client requested and he picked the shoot time window. The property is used for weddings and later light was not an option. Also to consider is the 10 foot hedge on the left side of the frame, a later light would have it casting a shadow on the lawn and hidden the gazebo in the shadow. Like I said before there is a lot more to consider than what you see from the ground.

You sound like an expert and freely give advice that is second hand, you critique others work and provide none of your own to substantiate your expertise.

People like you are why people like me don’t frequent these forums, I have a living to make and freely share my knowledge eats into my productivity. This isn’t helping anybody.


Walt
04-17-2003 Over year old.
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
MPA
Elite Veteran
Location: Australia

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04-17-2003 Over year old.
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
Smithprod
Veteran
Location: Oklahoma

Hey Hanger Pilot, AKA MPA

You need to get away from the computer and go burn some fuel, which is obvious from the pictures you've posted that look like they were taken from a step ladder. Your photography "expertise" isn''t doing anyone anygood because you have no realworld experience. Guys like you (hanger pilots) are a dime a dozen. Now please slam away while I'm out flying!

Brad
04-17-2003 Over year old.
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
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Aerial Photography and Video > Whats your slowest shutter ?
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