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Beginners Corner > Fresh to RC helis, is t-Rex too much??

speeddemon370
Senior Heliman
Location: Spruce Grove, Alberta, Canada

I'm calling that a good plan in my books. If you're going to actually fly it and be somewhat proficient at it when you do..... I'd say the SEV2 is what you want. Let's not kid ourselves, you'd end up buying all that bling anyways sooner or later (or at least I would

). May as well be sooner and in the "all inclusive" yet less money package.

with 2 ears and 1 mouth you should listen twice as much as you talk

05-02-2008 02:01 AM

HOMEPAGE

flag8r77
Senior Heliman
Location: Jacksonville Florida

Go with a Mini Titan, great machine, great price. If you are thinking you may want a nitro some day, get that now, first!

05-04-2008 09:11 PM

speeddemon370
Senior Heliman
Location: Spruce Grove, Alberta, Canada

IMO learning to fly a heli is hard enough without dealing with engine issues. If you're already familiar with rc engines and nitro then no prob but nitro has a fairly steep learning curve in itself. I would reccomend one thing at a time or else you're going to quit out of sheer frustration. Nothing says your first heli has to be your only and final heli. Buy one for learning, then get what you want depending on your EDUCATED prefrence and flying style.

with 2 ears and 1 mouth you should listen twice as much as you talk

05-04-2008 10:27 PM

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jm417
Heliman
Location: Florida

Don't buy a micro heli!! You will want to fly it into the garbage. I started with the Blade CP Pro and spent enough money fixing it that I could have bought a .90 size heli instead.

If budget is tight, like others have said the Blade 400 is the best way to go. Comes ready to fly out of the box and most important the replacement parts are easy to find at any local hobby shop. It’s similar in size to the T-Rex 450 and is capable of 3D flight (for when you get there). The only problem you will experience is wind. The smaller the heli the harder to fly.

If you can spend the money, instead of the T-Rex 450 you should at least get a T-Rex 500. It’s bigger and MUCH more stable in the wind making it easier to fly. Realistically when it’s all completed it’s only a few bucks more than the 450. You will spend approximately $1500 - $2000 with either heli depending on how many extra batteries you buy.

It you plan on going nitro, DO IT NOW and get a Raptor 50 which will probably run you the same $$ as the 450 or 500. A 50 size heli is very stable and can meet the need of any flying style.

Finally, you do NEED a simulator to practice. If you get a simulator before getting a heli, Real Flight G3.5 or G4 is a good simulator because it comes with a radio. G4 is the newer version. Practice hovering and basic flying techniques until you can maneuver comfortably without crashing. If you are comfortable flying on the simulator, you should have no problem hovering or doing basic flying with your new bird. The practice will pay off!!

Good Luck and let us know what type of bird you choose.

If you touch my heli, I'll triangle choke you!

05-06-2008 02:06 PM

FBoss
Senior Heliman
Location: Cincinnati, Ohio, USA

Looks like there is some very solid advice on this thread. Ive said B4 Id might start out with the balde 400. Read a thread yesterday that made a good case against it......Ill throw in a Century Swift, and at least Rick, from Ricks heliproz south has written a good review of the Cyclone (never seen one myself but he is respected). Trex, wont have too many vote against it but I think the SA (basic) mdl would be a better starter. You are gonna crash and break parts, if you are like me, crash ALOT. Save the bling forthe other side of the learning curve. Ill also throw in getting a used bird from a well respected RR member. Get it, tear it down to the bits and rebuild it. Dont just buy it and fly it. Its not a bad wat to go, saves some $$ or gets you a better bird and helps with the building learning curve. As noted no question about the SIM.
2 more cents

The good ole times are now ,000132

05-06-2008 03:16 PM

beeflyer2
Veteran
Location: Woodstock, GA

Quote
Finally, you do NEED a simulator to practice

No, you don't NEED a simulator. I started 2 years ago with a Blade CP and I have come pretty far without using a sim. You just need to take baby steps and never try something new until you are confident you are ready.

I'm not saying a sim is not a useful tool, but it irritates me that most guys claim it's absolutely necessary to learn to fly. My approach has been to put in as much "real" stick time as possible. I logged just under 1000 flights last year.

Quote
For sure get a sim. I don't know anyone who's serious about heli's that doesn't have one.

By the way, Alan Szabo Jr. doesn't use a sim.

05-06-2008 03:45 PM

speeddemon370
Senior Heliman
Location: Spruce Grove, Alberta, Canada

I could see this getting heated fast. Lol

Ok, I'm not trying to escalate. I'm just putting my 2c in.

Having a sim let's you practice tricks that you have no business doing with your heli. Lots of times you find out (after 20 crashes) that it's not so bad and maybe you could do it with your heli. Another 20 crashes on the sim and it hasn't cost you a cent, then you go outside and rock the trick the first time, first try, and you and only you realize that you got a little bit out of shape halfway through but due to your sim experience you corrected it perfectly and life goes on.

Not just tricks but basic orientation is vastly improved with sim practice. Nose in, side, side, inverted, inverted nose in, etc etc. It dosen't take very many dumb thumb moves flying your real heli to cost as much as (or more than) a good sim. So why not.

Also, you can virtually get some stick time in when it is in no way convienient to get actual stick time in. Winter, windy, rainy, stormy days for example. Or..... I have a very sick wife today that I have to bring food and juice and such. If I were to sneak out of the house for a couple flights with the helicopter all hell would break loose, but I'm probably gonna log 4hrs of virtual flight time by the end of the day. My goal is to perfect the tic toc.

Anyways, just my 2c
Buy the sim. You won't regret it.

with 2 ears and 1 mouth you should listen twice as much as you talk

05-06-2008 04:28 PM

HOMEPAGE

jm417
Heliman
Location: Florida

beeflyer2

I can agree that you don't NEED a sim to learn to fly. It was done before sims. But if you don't have a trainer or a ton of money to spend on repairs, the sim will pay for itself. It will only help your progression and make you more familiar with stick movement and orientation. It also offers a training session teaching you basic hovering and maneuvers as well as stunts. Best of all it allows you to fly on a rainy day. So, why not take advantage of that.

Its sounds like you have progressed with you're flying through trial and error with a lot of patience. That was you're choice and there is nothing wrong with that... No need to get "irritated" from people who choose to use a sim and believe that it helps real stick time.

Plus Alan doesn't pay for his heli's either.

If you touch my heli, I'll triangle choke you!

05-06-2008 04:58 PM

speeddemon370
Senior Heliman
Location: Spruce Grove, Alberta, Canada

Quote
By the way, Alan Szabo Jr. doesn't use a sim.

Quote
Plus Alan doesn't pay for his heli's either.

Yeah I'd imagine that might change your outlook on crashing just a bit huh?

His heli's are his sim. Ahhh, it's a tough life isn't it.

with 2 ears and 1 mouth you should listen twice as much as you talk

05-06-2008 05:30 PM

HOMEPAGE

nooobs
Veteran
Location: Toronto, Canada

Just sharing my experience.

I started off with a sim. Spent 400 hours on the sim before flying my first "real" heli.

My first heli was a 90 size electric heli. (Maxi-Joker2) First flight a 5 minutes nose in hover.

Second.

I wanted to hover inverted. Practiced on the sim for about 2 weeks.

First inverted hover was 5 minutes nose in with a Trex600.

05-06-2008 05:44 PM

HOMEPAGE

TJinGuy
Key Veteran
Location: Socorro, NM - USA

I know you are trying to impress us with your initial skills and that sounds great but some of us would rather fly a real heli for 400 hours instead of sitting at a computer. Plus big helis are much easier to fly.

- Chris

I own the King of helis! And a Mini too!
TAKE OFF AND LANDING CHAMPION SUPREME

05-06-2008 07:11 PM

nooobs
Veteran
Location: Toronto, Canada

Not trying to impress anyone here. I couldn't care less how someone learns.

Just sharing my experience of how I started. Sim saved me a lot of money.

05-06-2008 07:59 PM

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Skarn
Senior Heliman
Location: Pasadena, MD

For those that say you don't NEED a sim. Ok technically you are correct. But to not recommend on is just wrong IMO. Guess what? You don't NEED a gyro either! Back in the day, they didn't have one and people learned to fly....eventually.

A sim is an invaluable resource that while many learned without one, there simply is NO good reason NOT to get one! I can just about guarantee you that if you take two identical newbies (if that were possible), one starts with a sim and the other without...the one with the sims will have a MUCH shorter learning curve!

So no, you don't need a sim....just like I don't NEED power steering and brakes in my car! Would I have a car without them? No.

Skarn

It's better to burn out than to fade away...

05-06-2008 08:19 PM

TJinGuy
Key Veteran
Location: Socorro, NM - USA

Sims are good and have their place but they do not replace real flying.

- Chris

I own the King of helis! And a Mini too!
TAKE OFF AND LANDING CHAMPION SUPREME

05-06-2008 08:22 PM

nooobs
Veteran
Location: Toronto, Canada

Quote
but they do not replace real flying.

Sims does not replace real flying. That's why it's called "SIM" for simulator.

It's suppose to teach a newbie "orientation" mainly.

05-06-2008 08:47 PM

HOMEPAGE

2old2fly
Senior Heliman
Location: Mill Creek, Wa.

Quote
if you take two identical newbies (if that were possible), one starts with a sim and the other without...the one with the sims will have a MUCH shorter learning curve!

Actually, I would suspect that their learning curves would be very similar. Rather, one would spend his "flight time" on the sim, while the other spent his on a real heli. I would think that the total number of hours spend would be very similar, if not favoring the real heli pilot for shorter hours.
What may be different in the end is the amount of money spent.

One would be spending money repairing crash damage, but learning much more about the actual physics of the heli.
The other would have spend around $200 for a decent SIM, and thus saved all that crash repair $20 at a time(it would take a fair number of crashes to pay for the sim IMHO).

I have a SIM, and personally, I find it boring, and a pale representation of the physics of flying a Heli. It's good for practicing manuvers, and building hover orientation experience. But I notice a substantial difference between the SIM, and a real heli. I'm also willing to spend more time flying with a real heli, than I am sitting behind a computer playing, what amounts to me, a video game (don't mean to be insultive there, it's just how I feel about it).

IMHO:
Do SIMS have a place?
Yes, absolutely.
Will they teach you to fly?
Probably not.
Has mine saved me the $200 purchase price in crash damage avoidance?
Hard to say, I'm only getting started.

Would I recommend that people get one?
Probably depends on the person, their willingness to spend an extra $200, whether they have local fliers to help, their willingness to spend long hours in front of a computer.. etc.

And just an aside:
I'm a systems analyst. I spend all day, and most of the evening in front of my computer. I'm getting back into RC for the explicit purpose of getting OUT from behind the computer, not finding more reasons to spend even MORE time here!

But in summation: I don't think SIMS are a one size fits all solution for everyone. Yes, they CAN be a very usefull tool if properly used. But I learned far more about hovering a heli from my little Walker 4#3 than I have from my SIM.
In fact, what the sim has taught me is some really creative ways to crash! There's no consequence to crashing on the sim, so you don't try as hard.

But that is just my opinion. Yours probably varies.

Helicopters don't fly, they beat the air into submission.

05-06-2008 09:06 PM

Skarn
Senior Heliman
Location: Pasadena, MD

Quote
Actually, I would suspect that their learning curves would be very similar. Rather, one would spend his "flight time" on the sim, while the other spent his on a real heli.

Actually no, the one flying the real heli would have MUCH more downtime due to constantly repairing it! And depending on what heli he has, waiting for parts.

Quote
One would be spending money repairing crash damage, but learning much more about the actual physics of the heli.

As stated above, he wouldn't be learning too much about the physics of the heli while it's sitting on the bench waiting/being repaired.

Quote
The other would have spend around $200 for a decent SIM...

There is no need to spend $200 on a sim. I did and in retrospect wish I would have used a free one like on helifreak. But I DEFINITELY saved more than $200 by using the sim! I still use the sim today...if you are bored and don't think the sim is realistic at all, you might want to check out another sim! Yes there is definitely a difference, but the free sim on helifreak is very close and you can dial in wind, use expo, etc....all for free!

BTW, I am an Aerospace Systems Engineer and spend the majority of my time at a computer as well. I just like computers

And yes, to each his own....maybe a sim is not for you, but I still say one who uses a sim WILL have a much shorter learning curve and save money as opposed to one that does NOT use a sim.

Skarn

It's better to burn out than to fade away...

05-06-2008 09:32 PM

2old2fly
Senior Heliman
Location: Mill Creek, Wa.

Quote

Quote
Actually, I would suspect that their learning curves would be very similar. Rather, one would spend his "flight time" on the sim, while the other spent his on a real heli.

Actually no, the one flying the real heli would have MUCH more downtime due to constantly repairing it! And depending on what heli he has, waiting for parts.

Not to be nit-picky.., not argumentative.. but. I said "flight time".
The premise is based upon the flier having access to parts, and alowing for repairs, etc. . I wan only counting flight time, not calendar time.

And personally, I'm finding 10 minutes of real heli stick time is worth 10 hours of sim time.

Helicopters don't fly, they beat the air into submission.

05-06-2008 10:11 PM

TJinGuy
Key Veteran
Location: Socorro, NM - USA

You can get there either way, that is not being disputed but one way teaches you more about ideal heli flying and the other is real heli flying. The ideal stuff allows you to learn how the sticks feel, learn how to react in an ideal world and learn to fly in all orientations in an ideal world. Real flying teaches you all that stuff but also includes all the real non-ideal stuff. That makes it much more difficult but you learn way faster.

Yes crashing makes for downtime but part of flying a heli is working on a heli. The more you really fly it the better you understand how it works, how to set it up and how to watch for problems. The guy that comes off a sim and steps right into a .90 heli setup by a LHS is flying with way less knowledge than someone who has learned on a real heli. As for downtime, my last 2 crashes took me less than 30 minutes to fix each. There was no "sitting on the workbench" time.

As for money spent, I have spent much less than $200 in broken heli parts. I think I am somewhere around $120 right now and most of that was from my first 3 crashes. My last 3 were cheap. Plus the sim guy is going to crash anyways and the sim can't help with that. Hell the added stress and adrenaline alone will make a newbie crash at least once.

That all said ... there is nothing wrong with doing both at the same time and frankly, I would recommend that to anyone. Spend an hour or two on the sim learning how to hover enough to keep the heli in the air. Then go outside with your training gear mounted heli and take it slow. Then play on the sim here and there and work on your hovering and orientations. Then go back out and hover the real thing. Rinse and repeat. Worked for me and is working for my friend that just started 3 weeks ago.

- Chris

I own the King of helis! And a Mini too!
TAKE OFF AND LANDING CHAMPION SUPREME

05-06-2008 10:36 PM

nooobs
Veteran
Location: Toronto, Canada

Quote
The guy that comes off a sim and steps right into a .90 heli setup by a LHS

I built my own.

05-06-2008 11:31 PM

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