rrTV-PHOTO   New HD TV
HOME   rrTV-PHOTO   GALLERIES   MY GALLERY   HELP-FAQ
myHOME PM pmRR MEMBERS 348 ONLINE 45 EVENTS SEARCH REGISTER  START HERE
 
1 page381 viewsPOST REPLY
Ace Hobby . JR-Spektrum . E-flite

.
.
Radio - JR & Spektrum DSM > Spektrum, Align 500, Static discharge, and conclusion jumping
 
 
dkshema
rrProfessor
Location: Cedar Rapids, IA

I've been finding my way in and out of the Trex forum here on RR over the past months since Align released their 500 electric.

It seems that there are is an inordinate number of 500 owners experiencing problems with their Spektrum radios in this model. Somewhere in the time that's passed since the 500's introduction, people have glombed onto the belief that the 500's tail rotor drive belt is responsible for generating random static discharges that are making the Spektrum receivers go nuts.

I've watched the videos of people chasing all over their helicopters with the $15 static checkers they've bought at the local Home Depot. I've seen the endless discussions about lubing the TR belt, grounding the various parts, grounding the entire system to the battery negative lead, switching out the CF side frames for the glass side frames, and now the introduction of the torque tube TR drive... ...all in that search for the Holy Grail of making their Spektrum radios behave well in the 500.

There are a lot of people writing less than complimentary words about Spektrum-based radios and poor EMI/ESD shielding.

It's even reported that Jason Krause outright claims that the Spektrum radios simply are incompatible with the belt-driven 500.

In all of the discussion, people ignore the fact that there are many other brands of helis, all with belt-driven tails that seem to fly day in and day out with their Spektrum receivers just purring along with never a glitch.

In all of the static about static, I've seen one post that makes sense. It appears that static discharge may be the culprit, but the post suggested that the noise is finding its way into the receiver through the power leads, via the ESC/BEC.

----
Enough background, now for the questions. Has anyone back at the Spektrum or JR ranch ever performed any ESD testing under controlled conditions, on the receivers to determine their ability to operate in an environment that includes multiple high-energy static discharges? Has susceptibility testing been performed on the receivers? Both conducted (via power and signal wires) and radiated sources?

Is anyone back at the JR/Spektrum ranch actively looking into the reported static discharge related glitches? It would be enlightening for someone in the radio production end of things to enter the fray and determine if there is a technical explanation that would confirm or dispel the rumors about these "static induced glitches".

-----

* Making the World a Better Place -- One Helicopter at a time! *

Dave
04-26-2008 05:55 AM
 
 
BarracudaHockey
rrMaster
Location: Orange Park FL

I think those static wicks someone is selling are the ticket


AMA 77227
http://www.jaxrc.com
04-26-2008 12:16 PM
 
 
Futura SE
Senior Heliman
Location: Fayetteville, Arkansas

Paul Beard is flying a 500 with a AR6100E. He posted a pic of him flying it. I would ask him. What Jason says to bash another radio brand just discredits him and the reason no one is griping about being shot down with Futaba is no one flies it anymore. You might ask him why all the top Futaba pilots like Matt Botos are still flying 72mhz at fun fly's????? Hmmm???? Futaba being superior my hind end. Go to the Futaba forum and look around. Superior my foot. He popped off because he does not know. He mave have had a lockout. He sure isn't going to ever admit it. Bad business.

I still suspect the ESC and motor as Curtis Youngblood has done testing on the 500 with a scope and they told me the ESC and motor are VERY noisy. There also was a more than average amount of static coming from the boom and it is not grounded to the frames so... They said what they thought needed to be improved about the 500 WITHOUT bad mouthing the product. In fact they have 430mm Radix main blades, Radix Paddles and Radix tails coming out just for the 500 in a couple of weeks. Not many companies are run like Curtis runs his though unfortunetly.

Norman Ross Jr.
04-26-2008 07:01 PM
 
 
dkshema
rrProfessor
Location: Cedar Rapids, IA

I purposely left out references to Futaba as I didn't want this to turn into a "my brand is better than your brand" thread.

I read the thread about Jason's comments, and my opinion on that topic is that the guy can really fly helicopters, but might want to think twice before going on record to venture into areas that lie outside his expertise. It's also interesting to see what the backlash of his comments seem to be. People are seeing his comments as nothing more than a bald-faced marketing ploy to sell the $80 torque tube upgrade for the 500.......

But, I've seen so many posts about "static" that I was wondering if anyone had actually done some real-life ESD/EMI tests on the Spektrum stuff, and what the results show.

The Spektrum people stepped up to the plate with their QuickConnect software, and adding the blinky lights to indicate "brown out" events that occurred during a flight. They ARE a responsive company. Now, perhaps they should turn their attention to getting to the actual cause of those purported ESD induced glitches.

There is just so much mis-information and bad information out in the ether, it might be time for some real, hard data to either back up or dispel the claims that are being made.

I'm still betting the real source of the trouble is noise coming in through the power lines via the ESC/BEC. If that's the case, the folk at Spektrum might consider some better input filtering on the power for their receivers to make the power inputs more robust.

-----

* Making the World a Better Place -- One Helicopter at a time! *

Dave
04-26-2008 08:15 PM
 
 
JKos
Elite Veteran
Location: Town of California in the state of Maryland

Doesn't the fact that it's only the T-Rex 500 on which people are having problems with Spektrum receivers point to the helicopter and not the radio gear? Does everyone not remember that the Mikado Logo 10 caused lots of people problems for many years due to exactly what's happening on the T-Rex 500? The solutions for the Logo 10 are exactly what everyone seems to be rediscovering for the T-Rex 500.

That being said, I've now flown three different Logo 10s with Spektrum receivers without any of the static precaution mods and haven't had a single issue.

- John

Protos -- Logo 14 -- Logo 10
04-26-2008 08:28 PM
 
 
SynergyRC
Heliman
Location: California

Matt Botos is flying the Futaba FASST 2.4Ghz system. The only reason he still has his antenna mounted is for balance.

Team Synergy
04-26-2008 08:58 PM
 
 
drdot
Elite Veteran
Location: So. California, Orange County.

fwiw...

I feel this is an issue still in need of sorting..But I do not believe the Spektrum has been the source of the problems, but the Align bec/esc.
If static is an issue, the brownouts could easily be the bec resetting/shutting down...Would look exactly like a lock out, and the reset time of the original Spektrum rxs would exacerbate the problem...I wonder how may 500s are flying with another brand of esc/bec and are having issues?

John.
04-28-2008 04:39 AM
 
 
cbflys
Senior Heliman
Location: Central Islip, Long Island NY - USA

I personally have witnessed TRex 500 glitches due to ESD. Furthermore, the offending ESD source was apparently the belt drive. To add to this, I've personally seen this happen in helis with a Spektrum AR7000 receiver AND with a Futaba R617FS receiver. In both cases, as soon as the glitching started the helis were landed and the belts re-lubed with either silicon spray or static guard and immediatley flown again. In both cases the glitches were gone.

There are many opportunities for the ESD to get into the control system, however my most likely suspect is the gyro. I say this because in both cases mentioned above, the glitching was only witnessed in the yaw. I would think that if the ESD was getting into the receiver, I'd see more than just the rudder act up.

In both these instances, the helis were stock with no ESD modifications.
04-28-2008 02:50 PM
 
 
Slartybartfast
Senior Heliman
Location: Somewhere in England

I'm going to have to make some guesses here (not going to say assumptions but....)...

Seeing as how there is little documentation for the Spektrum systems here in the UK that isn't USA sourced (ie none...) then its difficult to state exactly.

IF the systems was tested over this side of the pond to the EU specs then there is a section on ESD & EMC susceptibility that it has to pass.

Reference is EN 301-489 part 1 table 7.2 on page 21.

Not certain how that migrates over to the FCC rules ( it's a massive pain just going through the EU rules etc.... just couldnt bear to go wading through FCC standards...)

But I would imagine that IF it passed over here (guessing that it has been tested) then it SHOULD pass any FCC immunity requirements.
04-28-2008 03:47 PM
 
 
1 page381 viewsPOST REPLY
Futaba-RC . Next D . Fast Lad Performance

.
.
Radio - JR & Spektrum DSM > Spektrum, Align 500, Static discharge, and conclusion jumping
  UPDATE SCREEN   PRINT TOPIC Advertisers 

Subscribe to This Topic

Wednesday, July 9 - 8:56 am - Copyright © 2000 - 2008 runryder.com | email | link to rr | runryder needs cookie