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Ace Hobby . Esprit Model . Thunder Power RC

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Gasser Model RC Helicopters > Predator Gasser build
 
 
JETMAN
Senior Heliman
Location: WA

I believe the manual says 70oz servo's.

www.3dfoamy.com
05-12-2008 09:43 PM
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
pgkevet
Senior Heliman
Location: surrey UK

I thought the physical construction was complete..My last issue was the CenturyV3 muffler which I foolishly assumed would be a straight bolt-on job. But this is a Gasser!!

It turns out that the cap bolts supplied with the engine are too long for the century muffler and their thread length isn't enough to just cut 'em down. Even if i did then the depth of the attachment hole on the V3 muffler is too long for conventional allen keys, too large for any easily obtained hex drivers and too narrow for a bit-ended screwdriver.

The solution isn't ang biggie... just meant sourcing some steel tube with a good fit and making up a pair of tube-spacers. For a change there was a stock length in B&Q that was perfect and 20 mins work with hacksaw and dremel disc did the rest.

I've got the air filter on .. but have swapped out the connecting block beneath for the upgrade that comes with teflon gaskets.

The delay though is in placing electronics This isn't a heli design that lends itself to easy places to stick stuff on the side and the provided electronics tray is a bit small for everything - and it looks like the best solution is to make up a small sub-tray - let's face it this is a Gasser!

So it's gonna be another trip to buy a small sheet of ally - then cut, bend, file, drill and polish. Plaigerising Jschenck's approach

I've also got a problem with running the 2.4Ghz aerials - but some ideas brewing.

Nuisance is they're making me work today - so that means make the tray tomorrow and if it works then finally start the 611 programming and CCPM interactions - and find time to fly other helis!

I'm still hoping to fire it up this w/e but more likely Sunday than Saturday and that's gonna be scarey!!!

pgk
05-15-2008 08:18 AM
 
 
JETMAN
Senior Heliman
Location: WA

I put 2.4 in mine a few days ago, works great on mine so far, only got a couple flights on it so far, but its working.

www.3dfoamy.com
05-15-2008 02:54 PM
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
litespeed600
Senior Heliman
Location: St. Charles, Missouri

Quote 
It turns out that the cap bolts supplied with the engine are too long for the century muffler and their thread length isn't enough to just cut 'em down. Even if i did then the depth of the attachment hole on the V3 muffler is too long for conventional allen keys, too large for any easily obtained hex drivers and too narrow for a bit-ended screwdriver.

The muffler is the down fall on this machine in the way it's hard to keep the bolts tight. With all that extra material expanding and contracting (Your tubes) I think your going to have a harder time with this. You need to just go up to a hardware store and get some shorter screws and a 4mm "T" handle allen wrench and you will be set.
You do have the spacer too right?

Tighten it up as much as you can ( no Hulking the screws though!) and then run it. After a min or two or 5 when it heats up, then tighten the screws again. If you tighten them when hot they should last a while. I believe this should be a post-flight check. It's what I do and haven't read of anything to fix this problem. I have never asked though!

Tom

I'm married so you know I am no stranger to pain!
05-15-2008 03:25 PM
 
 
Billme
Key Veteran
Location: MS

I think if you will do the the oring fix on the auto clutch, it will help in this situation. Much smoother on the heli drive train.
Doing the heli coils, and using the copper gasket will help as well..
Bill
05-15-2008 04:02 PM
 
 
TooBizzy
Senior Heliman
Location: Georgetown, Ohio USA

I just put a V3 on my 231 and it came with the right length bolts. Wonder why yours didn't? I also struggled with "How to tighten the bolts up" but then remembered I had a set of T-Handle allen wrenches I had bought from Harbor Freight. (Like Litespeed suggested, its the only way to tighten them.) I've ran over a gallon since adding the V3 and I have not retightened the muffler. It appears to be holding well.

P-Gasser Se, Raptor 50 Se Hyper, Raptor 30v2, Trex450se, 3dx450...
05-15-2008 04:59 PM
 
 
jschenck
Elite Veteran
Location: La Vista, NE.

My experience with my V3 - it was tight after about gallon of flying. I have a good 4mm T handle to tighten the bolts, they are the correct length.

...yep...
05-15-2008 05:02 PM
 
 
pgkevet
Senior Heliman
Location: surrey UK

<<You do have the spacer too right?>>
I left that off because the clearance was fine with the century muffler's own bit sticking out and as usual no instructions..I know someone is going to lecture me on balanced exhaust systems.. is it that critical? Not that i've tried putting the canopy on yet...

My tube spacers dogged down nicely...

I can , of course, change it and as ever I'm garetful for the advice of folk here.. or I wouldn't be asking

..but sounds like I'll be hunting hex shaped steel rod to make own key if needed...or waiting for the post..

I've made up a plate to angle down over the electronics tray and that gives room for everything.. used a piece of perforated steel sheet so plenty of holes to tie stuff down

pgk
05-15-2008 05:27 PM
 
 
pgkevet
Senior Heliman
Location: surrey UK

Reviewing exhaust

The spacer supplied with Zenoah's own exhaust is necessary for clearance. The Century exhaust fits with canopy clearance and a one inch plus air gap by the canopy without the spacer. Airflow will hit the end of the muffler rather than towards its inner edge. Someone with a wind tunnel is encouraged to test the difference

The thickness of the zenoah spacer wasn't enough for the zenoah bolts to fit on my original test (screwed them in hand tight and measured then measured distance muffler and spacer).. now it might be that dogged in tight the bolt holes are deeper but I didn't want to risk damage and I have a good length of bolt in that hole.

Is the Century muffler balanced' and critical on spacer volume?
Is the Century muffler designed to use the Zenoah spacer or just assumed so by those that have?
Does it really matter?

The issue of expansion and loosening: Well the tube spacers I made up are steel as are the capbolts and as is the zenoah cast spacer so surely expansion is going to be similar whichever but the spacers allow some 'compression' which the spacer doesn't.

Is there a definitive answer?

pgk
05-16-2008 09:12 AM
 
 
Billme
Key Veteran
Location: MS

Nothing that Zenoah supplies will be used for as a muffler...You should have two bolts supplied with the muffler, and simply bolt it on...

The copper gaskit is from daves motors that you will have to order as well as helicoils from a local hardware or auto part dealer...

The muffler was design with balance in mind, even before the Hatori, it was understood that one must have equal distance each way to help with vibration resistance coming loose.
It has always been my position that if the drive train is perfect, the less problems you will have which is becoming true as we continue the journey

Its the bottom bolt that goes first, because of oily residue from the exhaust, so its best to get the engine tune as good as possible to keep this to a minimum asap...Some folks use a high temp sealer on the bolts to help with this...

You can also put a 5mm steel nut behind the threads, you will have to grind it down to fit properly on the engine... This is a quick fix but does a great job if you strip the cast threads...

When putting the muffler on without first running it, do all the above that you would like to do, then as you tighten it up, I use a heat gun to get everything heated up, and then put a final twist with a "T" driver...

Bill
05-16-2008 10:46 AM
 
 
pgkevet
Senior Heliman
Location: surrey UK

Bill,

Thanks for a fast reply. Nothing came with the muffler apart from 2 bags of silica drying agent that were looking past their date and a warranty.

I fixed it on with the zenoah bolts and gasket and that may explain the length issues. Looks like I'll have to try it that way and see..unless there's serious reasons why not.

pgk
05-16-2008 12:14 PM
 
 
jschenck
Elite Veteran
Location: La Vista, NE.

Quote 
Nothing came with the muffler apart from 2 bags of silica drying agent

There's the issue! The muffler should have come with the correct bolts.



...yep...
05-16-2008 12:59 PM
 
 
pgkevet
Senior Heliman
Location: surrey UK

Quote 
<<There's the issue! The muffler should have come with the correct bolts>>

..You'ld have to buy a longer ruler for mine!

..still my tube spacer fix means i can use a standard allen key.. and it's on there solid (today)

..so just another gasser fettle

..plaigerised your electronic tray using some pierced steel sheet - a bit like flat mesh but not woven - lotsa holes for lashing stuff down..just need to 'get a round tuit' but weather is good here today and forcast iffy for the w/e.. had 6 lipos at the field earlier and will go back this evening..

pgk
05-16-2008 01:49 PM
 
 
jschenck
Elite Veteran
Location: La Vista, NE.

someone else here posted a pix of a similar tray, not really my idea. I just used the plastic piece because it was on my bench and looked about right.

I still have my pred. apart - good weather + raptor has been getting my limited hobby time.

...yep...
05-16-2008 02:49 PM
 
 
Billme
Key Veteran
Location: MS

Just so long as you get the length right, and make sure that only threads stick out of the muffler...I try to get bolts that the non threaded part stops just short of the flange...
Ace hardware has lockwashers that fit the hole with these bolts...that helps..

Gasser guys have to find their own way most of the time..those who stick with it, learn, and save, and enjoy the true benefits of flying gassers.
Bill
05-16-2008 07:47 PM
 
 
pgkevet
Senior Heliman
Location: surrey UK

<<Just so long as you get the length right>>

I know I say I'm an idiot, but I'm a mean idiot so I did measure the length of thread that went in hand tight and adjusted my system to be 2mm less so I could torque it up with a bit of safety if my tube spacer compressed - not that I expect that guage steel to move easily...and I tightened the allen key with a tube extension on the handle - it's tight and I'll check it hot...

But please do add any tips and ideas..I may have got stuff wrong and other folk will be reading this too..

pgk
05-16-2008 09:22 PM
 
 
Billme
Key Veteran
Location: MS

I understand PGK...Soon, you will be familiar with what is needed, then pass it on when your time comes...

I hardly get in here because there is enough good knowledge here to get someone into the air..But I always remind folks, its up to you make , and learn the finesse of becoming a excellent gasser pilot operator..

Bill
05-16-2008 09:42 PM
 
 
xcellgasman101
Elite Veteran
Location: WOODWARD, OKLA....

Quote 
Gasser guys have to find their own way most of the time..those who stick with it, learn, and save, and enjoy the true benefits of flying gassers.

Bill,,, That's the BEST STATEMENT that I have read in a long time,, You are the MAN!!!!! Thanks for all your help, in the past, present, and future,,,

PGK,, Hang in there,, Your going to make a Great Gasser Heli Pilot,,, XGM/VGM

John Crotts
www.soonerhelicamproductions.com
05-16-2008 09:55 PM
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
pgkevet
Senior Heliman
Location: surrey UK

Ya Gotta get building Profwiz!

..just a few bits of ccpm and throttle opening to set and trial tomorrow:



pgk
05-17-2008 12:58 PM
 
 
TooBizzy
Senior Heliman
Location: Georgetown, Ohio USA

Quote 
..still my tube spacer fix means i can use a standard allen key.. and it's on there solid (today)

If it were me, I would contact the place where you bought the muffler and ask them to send you the correct allen head bolts since yours were missing. You could fly it the way it is, temporarily, then put it together right when the correct bolts come in.

The spacers and added length bolts might cause you problems down the road. Having the correct length bolts on hand might save you some down time.

P-Gasser Se, Raptor 50 Se Hyper, Raptor 30v2, Trex450se, 3dx450...
05-17-2008 02:45 PM
 
 
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Gasser Model RC Helicopters > Predator Gasser build
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