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A Main Hobbies . Boca Bearings . Modefo's RC Helicopters

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Gasser Model RC Helicopters > Predator Gasser build
 
 
pgkevet
Heliman
Location: surrey UK

Question:
1)Are the link threads just standards metric threads or any particular fine pitch? I need to make up some more. I've got stainless rod in all diameters just need to buy a die

I had a bit of spare time and started on the links.. the few I've done seem spot-on to century's sizing.. but I seem short of them.. Now I'm not saying they weren't in the kit - I'm not the neatest in a workshop and I did have to clear out the room yesterday because even i couldn't find my way around - but I am careful when it's stuff I might have to buy.. just inherently mean i guess.

Questions:
2)Mounting stuff on the Tray: I was planning on going with hook and loop tape stuck to the tray and each item so I could move it around until happy.. then some top padding and cable ties.. that way i figure I can adjust weight forward for CoG.

3)Haven't figured out the best way of running the futaba 2.4 aerials yet. Have considered a hole and grommet in the tray and mount it underneath with one aerial in aerial tubes along the tray underside and one down the front of the fuel tank. Option of one aerial above tray and one below (at 90deg). Will that tray alloy interfer? Better to have a signal both sides?

4)Pending links I'll start on the tail..any issues there? I'm going stock to start so no front tail servo.

5)Best place to mount the 611? Back on the tray close to the head?

Collective wisdom or Century-Bashing comments welcomed (.. I'll ignore those 'cos this bird is starting to look good!)

pgk
05-09-2008 05:42 PM
 
 
Professorwiz
Veteran
Location: Livonia, Michigan - USA

It's going to be abit before I get much further. I loctited the screws in the clutch hub and stripped the head out on one. I should get that out by Monday, but not much gonna happen till I get that out. Perhaps I'll work on the upper frames / or tail, but I don't have servos yet so can't get to far there.
pgkevet: Looks like your rockin right along.. Let see some update pics.

Go that way really fast.. If something gets in your way.. TURN
05-09-2008 06:12 PM
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
jschenck
Elite Veteran
Location: La Vista, NE.

Quote 
I had a bit of spare time and started on the links.. the few I've done seem spot-on to century's sizing.. but I seem short of them.. Now I'm not saying they weren't in the kit - I'm not the neatest in a workshop and I did have to clear out the room yesterday because even i couldn't find my way around - but I am careful when it's stuff I might have to buy.. just inherently mean i guess.

I fought with the exact same question. I think I did end up finding them all but I had to cut two of the links a few mm's for the elevator push/pull links IIRC. It was not obvious to me if I had all the links.

As far as the sensor mount I understand that the gyro works better the closer you get it to the mainshaft. I mounted my 601 sensor as far back as I could on the radio tray. It's just about directly under the receiver. I used Zeal to mount the sensor.



...yep...
05-09-2008 06:18 PM
 
 
pgkevet
Heliman
Location: surrey UK

Profwiz & jshenck,

I'se a simple lad, straw in gob and lean o'er gate and chew cud...so being a bumpkin I just emailed Ron and told him to chuck a Preddie kit in two boxes and post it with enough spares to keep me flyin'.. and left it to him to choose stuff...so servos and thingies woz all there.

I guess he didn't think I'd be snapping link rods 'cos I got spare balls and link ends and a shovel-full of mixed M3 capheads and all sorts of exciting stuff...

A chance the links will be left over after the head build finishes but doubt it..

Can do some pix.. but not that exciting to look at.. just the frame locktighted and servos with wheels and the head parts.. tail, carb/exhaust in boxes and wires trailing out like a patient in ICU

He also didn't include zeal tape (just zeal in his perfect packaging).. not seen it this side pond.. so likely will fly first with 2 layers gyro pads..

pgk
05-09-2008 06:39 PM
 
 
pgkevet
Heliman
Location: surrey UK

..found the links! I was looking for links that are too long - to cut down.. found links shorter than the cut-down length recommended for the original elevator links length - but work nicely for this carbon mod version - so no biggie.

All the other links work at Century's recomendation.. will get a millimetric tweak later but at mid-stick it's all pretty square, full pitch range wthout any swash binding. Details like actual pitch I'll deal with later.

Skids next then tail...

my usual bad phone images:



pgk
05-09-2008 11:23 PM
 
 
pgkevet
Heliman
Location: surrey UK

Profwiz,

I'm on-call this w/e, so no flyin' but some build-time if quiet. Got lotsa little issues but not Gasser or Century type probs.. just the usual fiddle with stuff issues.

HOWEVER, have assembled the tail and that is nice separate unit if you want bits to do pending your screw extraction. Quite a high parts count. Also the skid supports need drilling. I eyeballed that but you're gonna have access to a pillar drill - so take them to work with you when you take the clutch in! M3 clearance holes centred 5mm inboard from each premoulded skid-slot inboard edge.

pgk
05-11-2008 07:57 AM
 
 
Professorwiz
Veteran
Location: Livonia, Michigan - USA

pgkevet:
Actually got the bolt out quite easily. A fellow at work said to use a cutoff wheel gently on it to make a flat for a screw driver. Use it slowly so while it's cutting it heats the bolt up and will melt the loctite at the same time. Have a screwdriver ready and soon as you take the cutoff wheel off try to remove it. It worked wonderfully. I thought I was going to have to get that thing indicated in and bore the bugger out. Way too easy. Now my classes have started again : (. It'll be slow going with the heli for abit, I was hoping to have a good portion of it together. I've loaded myself with too many classes I'm afraid, but manufacturing is getting worse in the US so I need a backup plan just incase more of it goes.

Russ

Go that way really fast.. If something gets in your way.. TURN
05-11-2008 02:45 PM
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
pgkevet
Heliman
Location: surrey UK

<<It'll be slow going with the heli for abit>>

Shame...rather liked the idea of a simultanoeus build..

At least you're unscrewed even if screwed worrying about being more screwed...

I got the tail in this am.. so it's some tidy=up parts of the build and then a whole lot of stupid questions I shall need help with such as:
Question:

Servos: I got 9254's on cyclic and throttle - they all buzz without any binding, even when links disconnected - normal? They stop at times if I flick tx rapidly back to current position

Gaskets: My (very) limited engine exprience would be to just shove them in. Folk here seem to be using all sorts of gasket gunk. See what happens with naked gaskets?

Kill switch?: Good idea or waste of time?

Fuel filters: Have one in-lie type provided with (ship-me-a-Preddi-kit-and-all-the-bits-I-need) kit. Use it when fueling in but leave carb line direct?

Watch this space - there will be more!.

<<Historic note: I used to have a moped that ran on 2-stroke. 200mpg - I could fart in the tank, wait for it to condense and ride home>>

PS - I have a new bowl. This one's called. "Damn, that's all I can find from the bowl I dropped"

pgk
05-11-2008 04:15 PM
 
 
Professorwiz
Veteran
Location: Livonia, Michigan - USA

I think the 9254's would be a bad choice, I think you need stronger servos for those areas. I think the 9254 would be good choice for the tail, but 9252's would be a better choice (and cheaper) than 9254's. According to the manual you need 90 oz/in worth of torque.

Russ

Go that way really fast.. If something gets in your way.. TURN
05-11-2008 04:17 PM
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
pgkevet
Heliman
Location: surrey UK

Your absolutely right (remember I'm an idiot?) Ron did send 9252's -I just looked with stupid eyes!!

..just as well i left it to someone else

It's built except waiting for epoxy to dry on boom support ends and carbon pushrod.

Got to trim out the canopy and glue windscreen supports

Got to mount carb and muffler - need answer re gasket gunk first!

Then gyro and tail servo and run the lead in servo braid to the front. main front tray - so lay that with hook tape and can place stuff as wanted.

Possible add two kill switches (one each side for emergencies) - discuss!

Then can clean up heliroom and finalise set-up and CCPM interactions - set some assumed curves... and go try it!

Next pics when the muffler and carb are on.

And just remember- I'm an idiot so keep comments simple

pgk
05-11-2008 06:19 PM
 
 
blazobob
New Heliman
Location: us

Quote 
just need to buy a die

hi pgkevet

this is the hot setup for threading rodends , cutting with a die weakens the rod and you have to start out with a larger rod , this rolls the threads in , bob

http://www.biketoolsetc.com/index.c...item_id=HZ-C700

RR Master wannabe
05-11-2008 09:55 PM
 
 
Professorwiz
Veteran
Location: Livonia, Michigan - USA

Rolled threads are much stronger too!
Glad you did get the right servos, I was concerned for abit.
How about some updated pics of your build! I'm so envious!
I'm putting the stuff in a box, for the next week or so till I get organized for the classes. Classes are only 7 weeks for the spring, and I took the next 7 weeks off so I'll have it running then I hope!

Russ

Go that way really fast.. If something gets in your way.. TURN
05-11-2008 10:46 PM
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
windy62
New Heliman
Location: USA

A little OT but, http://www.portlandbolt.com/faqs/ro...t-threads-bolts .

As I read it, they are of the same strength, giving the minor diameter is the same.

In our application though, wouldn't a rod of a larger diameter to begin with, as with cut threads, be stronger than a rod that begins with a smaller diameter, as with rolled threads?

I have seen some machines use a 2.5mm rod with rolled threads to 3 mm, others have a 3mm rod with cut threads.

I think I would rather have the 3mm rods......

windy62
05-11-2008 11:32 PM
 
 
pgkevet
Heliman
Location: surrey UK

Blazobob, thanks for the url but I found the links anyway...

Profwiz,

<<Glad you did get the right servos, I was concerned for abit.
How about some updated pics of your build! I'm so envious!>>

I'm just an old senile fool

Ya want latest pic? Couldn't resist popping the canopy on even if just taped together (not cut as neat as I'd like either.. awkward stuff on the curves but OK unless get really close) Boom supports and tail rod epoxy setting as we speak...

Introducing it to my 450:



pgk
05-12-2008 12:10 AM
 
 
pgkevet
Heliman
Location: surrey UK

The die would have been a quick cheap solution ..I have access to surgical stainless in all sorts of diameters and different temper for rigidity or bending. I'm sure it would have been adequate in practice

Folk here appear to be very engineering technical... makes my blundering along even more inadequate. We'll see if the whole thing shakes apart

I'm planning on being finished and firing it up this week.. then order the spares....

pgk
05-12-2008 12:18 AM
 
 
Professorwiz
Veteran
Location: Livonia, Michigan - USA

windy62:
The diameters are the same, but the material would be smashed into itself (Forged) vs cut off. This creates a thread that is denser than standard. There are many good reasons for thread rolling these days and not many minus. The issues are, if your tapping you have to have a very accurate hole to start with, too much material and you'll break the tap, not enough and there's no threads, vs a cut tap you can have almost 2X the difference in size, example. If you have a M5 tap, the specs might call out a +-.002" tolerance for the hole size, vs on a cut tap you could be off by +-.005" and not see any difference. Another minus is that since it's cold forging itself, the finish isn't as shiny, yes some people really get annoyed that the threads don't have a shiny finish some times.
Plus side is no chips in the hole, specially if it's a bottom tap where you have to thread right to the bottom of a blind hole, and of course stronger threads.
Russ

Go that way really fast.. If something gets in your way.. TURN
05-12-2008 01:33 AM
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
windy62
New Heliman
Location: USA

Are you saying the metal is packed in tighter into the threads that are created?

According to that article, the metal is just displaced outward, creating the proper size of thread.

I wasn't aware that you can create denser metal in this fashion.

windy62
05-12-2008 03:46 AM
 
 
Professorwiz
Veteran
Location: Livonia, Michigan - USA

Yes, the metal is packed in and out, making a forged thread, which is stronger. I work with engineers who sit around all day and explore this stuff. We had some studs we were making for Nascar some years ago and all these discussions came up. Only they wanted us to roll 40 rockwell material.. Not easy but we did it.

Russ

Go that way really fast.. If something gets in your way.. TURN
05-12-2008 04:08 AM
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
windy62
New Heliman
Location: USA

So the threads may be stronger, due to work hardening (is that what you mean by forging?), but you still start off with a smaller diameter rod, right?

windy62
05-12-2008 04:26 AM
 
 
blazobob
New Heliman
Location: us

hi
the rod is not the problem , the weak point is at the bottom of the first few threads , stress is localized and the rod will fatigue in this area , it is well established that control rods with rolled threads are not only stronger , but lighter as well , bob

here are some of the results from a search

http://www.runryder.com/search.htm?...sortby=lastpost

here is one example

http://www.runryder.com/helicopter/...led+AND+threads

RR Master wannabe
05-12-2008 11:40 AM
 
 
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