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e-Minicopter Joker > MJ2 Tail Wag... another one

nooobs
Veteran
Location: Toronto, Canada

Did some searches here on tail wags and it seems I'm not alone here.
What I've done so far...

- swap out the 611 gyro to another 611.
- Changed tail servos from 9256 to BLS251.
- went through various percentages on both the control unit and TX. From 10% to 100%
- Tried various head speeds from 1250 to 1450
- Tried normal and governor mode with the ESC.
- I've installed new tail shaft and bearings, new main shafts and bearings.

No luck. Tail wags like a dog.

I think it may be my Schulze ESC. In the last 4 months I've had several crashes with the ESC. I think it may be damaged.

If I have to replace the ESC what's another that can handle the Pletti at 12s?

04-26-2008 04:48 AM

HOMEPAGE

krav
Heliman
Location: Portsmouth - UK

Power Jazz should do it but check with more experienced guys than me.

Order the set up card as well, I had to change the settings to get a nice soft start.

It'll handle from 13-63V, i.e. 18-45 cells NiCd/NiMH or 5-15S LiPo's

04-26-2008 06:16 PM

HOMEPAGE

sky vision
Heliman
Location: Ontario - Canada

Noobs,

Have you checked your timing adjustment on your ESC?

I have a JetiSpin 200 Opto with the Pletti and 12S. I picked mine up from Advanced Hobbies in Markham. You'll also want to pick up the JetiBox to assist with setup and monitoring.

Laurence

04-26-2008 07:42 PM

fergus
Veteran
Location: Ireland

If you can hold out a while the new Kontronik Jive is another option which should work very well (Should have a better Governor than the PowerJazz) :

Pic is the low voltage model - check here for the 12s model

http://www.heli-chris.de/product_in...a769b4f13a490f8

Regards

Fergus

Regards

Fergus

04-26-2008 08:07 PM

nooobs
Veteran
Location: Toronto, Canada

Guys thanks for the feedback. Just what I'm looking for.

Krav I was looking into that PowerJazz just now.

Laurence yeah I tried both normal and governor mode. No diff in tail wag. I know the guys at Advance well. I fly with them. But I'm the only one with a MJ2. Nobody else flies a Joker except for one with a nitro. He's having problems with the one way bearing though.

Fergus thanks for the tip. If it comes out soon then it'll probably be an option.

Anyway I'm in contact with Shulze. If they can fix this then I'll send it over. But I'm still going to get another ESC. I need to fly!

I think somewhere along my last 4 crashes must have fried something.

Almost crashed again today. I think the ESC is causing some sort of "loss of control". I was prepared for it. I was just hovering the MJ2 around then all of a sudden no control and the heli started to tip forward. I immediately hit throttle hold and autoed. My first unplanned auto. LOL

04-26-2008 10:24 PM

HOMEPAGE

nooobs

Veteran - Location: Toronto, Canada -

Here's the damage from the first crash this year caused by the tail pinion. The impact probably caused some short circuit within the controller.

Not sure if Schulze can fix this. Still waiting on a response.

04-27-2008 10:52 AM

HOMEPAGE

Seablade
Veteran
Location: floating around

that doesn't look like impact damage, more of a melt down.

If cutting off the shrink wrap doesn't offend Shulze,(if you still have warranty left), I'd take a look at the board for any signs of high heat or obvious shorts.
However, since your sending it to them it they can do it!

There is shrink wrap available to recover the Shulze, I just forget where I bought it! I used it when I sprayed the ESC with Corrosion-X to protect the board from the elements.

"Vini, Vidi, Velcro"

04-27-2008 03:33 PM

krav
Heliman
Location: Portsmouth - UK

That looks more like the sort of damage caused by a connector getting unplugged during the impact... would have been a lot of amps going through at the time so the resulting arc would have caused that melt down.
Epower is nice but a little scary sometimes

04-27-2008 07:16 PM

HOMEPAGE

nooobs
Veteran
Location: Toronto, Canada

Yeah I guess you guys are correct. I didn't realize what happened at the time. I just thought I bent the connector and thought nothing of it. DOH!

I showed Schulze the image. They didn't respond whether or not they'll take it back for repair.

04-28-2008 08:26 AM

HOMEPAGE

krav
Heliman
Location: Portsmouth - UK

One more thing in the Power Jazz's favor... doesn't need any protection from the elements.

04-28-2008 01:23 PM

HOMEPAGE

daytonabeach
Senior Heliman
Location: Oslo, Norway

Ross!

I got the same problem after changing tail pinion... ask Rhett, i think he solved his problem with shorter tailblades

2 days left before Profi mounting now

Never argue with an idiot, he'll drag you down to his level and beat you with experience...

05-04-2008 03:30 PM

HOMEPAGE

nooobs
Veteran
Location: Toronto, Canada

Thanks Chris.

Been down that road. I've tried 105,110 & 120. Tail still wags.

Keep us posted on the Profi!

05-04-2008 08:59 PM

HOMEPAGE

daytonabeach
Senior Heliman
Location: Oslo, Norway

De nada amigo

Im planing to use the rigid function in the profi and make the head flybarless, but im not certain...
Do you think its better with no flybar no matter what, or could there also be some issues with it?

Never argue with an idiot, he'll drag you down to his level and beat you with experience...

05-04-2008 09:31 PM

HOMEPAGE

nooobs
Veteran
Location: Toronto, Canada

Quite honestly I'm not sure if flybarless is the best for AP. Maybe for scale and 3D.

Do you think a 5% gain in efficiency is worth it?

Do you want a flybar to stabilize your heli or stabilized electronically?

Can you accept the increased workload on the servos?

With a flybar you can turn off HC and still fly the heli normally.

Without a flybar you can turn off the "horizontal hold" of HC but still dependent on the HC for stabilization.

In case of an emergency, it doesn't matter what system you have, just auto if you still have radio control.

Some will argue less parts to replace in case of crash - True. With most crashes the flybar will definitely bend. No biggie.

Less parts to cause vibration - Yes and No. If it's assembled correctly then there should be no problem. The MJ2 flies well as it is.

I'm not familiar at all with the Profi. Maybe someone with the Profi can explain the pros and cons a bit better.

If later on you do decide to get a Carvec flybarless may not be the way to go. The Carvec can be completely disengaged and still fly the heli.

05-04-2008 09:56 PM

HOMEPAGE

rroback
Key Veteran
Location: Irvine (UCI), Ca

Profi is basically just like the carvec, in that they handle all the mixing for the heli. You can use the profi/carvec and just fly around, or you can use their actual features. Both have 'horizontal" hold ( not sure what carvec calls it specifically), which keeps the heli horizontal. Profi has optical position hold, carvec doesn't ( but you can get gps, profi gps isn't out yet).

I like flybarless because it's much more simple mechanically, easier to balance.

Rhett... There's no power like E Power!

05-04-2008 10:58 PM

daytonabeach
Senior Heliman
Location: Oslo, Norway

Hmm hmm, have to rethink this during the day

I hear the Profi uses a great amount of power, the guy whos gonna help me with the setup told me so, hes got a flybarless Joker 2, maybe its because of that the servos is working harder to compensate for the flybar...

Rhett, what kind of receiver battery do you use? Have you had your joker flybarless since the begining, or, if not, is there a noticeable difference in the power consumption before and after?

Chris

Never argue with an idiot, he'll drag you down to his level and beat you with experience...

05-05-2008 08:20 AM

HOMEPAGE

rroback
Key Veteran
Location: Irvine (UCI), Ca

I've had a flybar and flybarless. For the receiver pack, I use a arizona regulator, with a 2s 2400mah pack. I use somewhere around 400 mah for flight, and before the profi, I use about 350, so not a whole lot of gain. The heli can fly a little longer, somewhere around 20-30s, but if one belt is not good, that number changes a lot.

Rhett... There's no power like E Power!

05-05-2008 09:52 PM

snurre
Heliman
Location: Sweden, Stockholm

Could it be the auto rotation bearing?

Noobs,
I understand the frustration of wagging tail. Those problems many times have their source in the drive line. In this case, if the ESC and the motor are running smoothly, you might want to check the integrity of the oneway bearing for the auto rotation. If it suffered damage during a crash it might just not be able to get a firm grip on the inner shaft during normal drive, occasionally slipping a little in the transmission... if so, you can imagine the rest...

Another reason, but less likely, is resonance in the tail servo push rod and/or tail boom / tail belt. The MJ2 is designed with the pushrod supported in just one point between the servo and the tail control cranc. If, by some reason there is a resonance here, it might just give strange behavior on the tail control. Though, I do not beleive this is the nature of your problem, because you tried a range of different rpm, with same result.

05-05-2008 10:54 PM

nooobs
Veteran
Location: Toronto, Canada

Snurre

Thanks for the tip.

I'll soon find out if it's the ESC or one way bearing.

I'm waiting on the new ESC to arrive. Should be in a day or two. If it's not the ESC then a one way bearing is readily available at my LHS.

I'll still have use for the new ESC... ;D

I'll keep you guys posted.

05-05-2008 11:27 PM

HOMEPAGE

nooobs
Veteran
Location: Toronto, Canada

Well Snure

You may have the answer. New ESC arrived today.

...tail still wags.

Time to buy that one way bearing.

05-06-2008 11:34 PM

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e-Minicopter Joker > MJ2 Tail Wag... another one

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