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Blades, Night Flying and Painting > How to waste a day in a few easy steps:

pariah
Senior Heliman
Location: West Valley City, UT - United States of America

1.) It's too windy out to fly.
2.) Decide to work on painting a fiberglass canopy. (Sure you can buy one, but I'm in the hobby to learn new things...)
3.) Sand the canopy in preparation for primer.
4.) Prime the canopy.
5.) Spend the next four hours sanding & priming until it's perfect.
6.) Shoot the base color. It didn't go on perfect, but it wasn't altogether terrible. (The longer version my airbrush technique needs work, but it's a learning experience, right?)

When paint is drying, you look for things to do, so...

7.) Read the instructions on the bottle.

It's not like it's my first time reading the bottle - but I figured I'd triple-check the dry time before masking for graphics.

And I notice "If you put the object in a booth at 150 degrees F, paint will take 20-30 min to cure." - this is in contrast to 6 hours otherwise.

Hmmm.....

8.) So I tried it in my own feeble way. What I expected was to be able to mask & shoot some of the graphics tonight.

What ended up happening: The paint blistered. Everywhere. It was like looking at one of those smallpox patients from a hundred years back.

Realizing that the paint was a total loss, I started to peel it off while it was still soft. Unfortunately, that didn't go as intended either.

So now I have a canopy that looks like it's got a serious case of leprosy.

Given the overall sturdiness of the canopy, I don't think it's going to be that practical to strip & re-prime. So I'm going to have to write this one up to experience.

Next staps: order a new canopy & start over... Sure, I could get a professionally painted one... but I'm in the hobby to learn new things... And I won't make this particular mistake again.

--
Helicopters & Women: The last thing I want is one whose head has a few loose screws.

04-20-2008 03:38 AM

HOMEPAGE

MrMel
Elite Veteran
Location: Lidingo, Sweden

I know the feeling,

Createx Auto-Air or Faskolor, waterbased paint, dry with hair-blower, clean with water if something goes wrong.

I dont think I would have continued learning to paint if I hadnt had used that...

04-20-2008 07:30 AM

RappyTappy
Elite Veteran
Location: Las Vegas, NV

+1 on the Createx watercolor paint, works great, cheap and easy to work worth. A light coat dries within 20 mins and can even be sanded.

This was painted with createx, nice vibrant colors for flying showed up excellent in the sky.

Chris

Logo 500 3D

Forever Brothers
Mickey Tylo

04-20-2008 07:50 AM

HOMEPAGE

BEAR
Senior Heliman
Location: Peterborough

You can get the createx paint dry faster if you use a hair dryer on it!

04-20-2008 10:35 AM

pariah
Senior Heliman
Location: West Valley City, UT - United States of America

I was using Auto Air - I certainly like the stuff; great colors, has excellent application properties, and pretty safe stuff to use; you don't need special equipment to work with it. I do wish the instructions on the bottle didn't say "No thinning required for airbrush" - especially when the PDF instructions mention that for better flow, it's a good idea to mix with flash reducer (ie. thin the paint).

The results I was seeing with the paint was the rough texture that's characteristic of paint that hasn't been thinned enough and/or not atomizing properly.

Again, I should have done a test shoot on something else to get a hang for the way the paint flows & make any necessary adjustments before painting my canopy. I'm used to working with Model Master paints - so the slightly different properties of the new paint was something I should have accounted for.

I too tried the heat gun technique. Actually, I used a monokote heat gun instead of a hair dryer, and it worked pretty well after I got the hang of it. (I got preoccupied in one spot and wasn't paying attention & the paint blistered; this was easily repaired). But the heat gun died on me, so I was left to find a different method, with disastrous results.

The problem for me was that the paint was already mostly cured when it blistered up - meaning I couldn't just clean it up with water anymore.

All in all, there were a number of mistakes that I made, and all of them beginning when I started shooting the base color. I'm confident that next weekend, I'll do much better. With any luck, I won't make any mistakes, but at the very least, I'll screw up in a new and interesting way.

--
Helicopters & Women: The last thing I want is one whose head has a few loose screws.

04-21-2008 01:32 AM

HOMEPAGE

MrMel
Elite Veteran
Location: Lidingo, Sweden

Even cured Createx Auto-Air is just to scrub off with warm water, as long as you havent put clear on you can always restart, thank god for that

04-21-2008 06:53 AM

pariah
Senior Heliman
Location: West Valley City, UT - United States of America

Hmmm. I must try this. Thanks for the tip; too bad I'll still have to re-prime portions of it.

Just wash it, or does it require a soak first? And how much time? (Minutes/hours?)

--
Helicopters & Women: The last thing I want is one whose head has a few loose screws.

04-21-2008 07:10 AM

HOMEPAGE

MrMel
Elite Veteran
Location: Lidingo, Sweden

I take one of those house-hold scotch kitchen sponge, and under running water (warm) I clean a canopy in less then 20 minutes, often when the warm water starts to de-solve it it comes off in chunks.

Depending on primer used, for sample Createx Direct-To-Metal primer, even that its water based, it stick's, so I can go back to painting directly without doing anything except dry and sand a little.

If you have masked/cut anywhere you might need to sand & re-prime since it can have cutmarks in the gel that will shine through the color.

04-21-2008 11:42 AM

ferincr
Senior Heliman
Location: San Jose - Costa Rica

I know the feeling...
I use automotive paint so I normally spray outside. (good thing is that you can mask it in an hour or so, but I probably wont live as long as you guys

)
The other day it was cloudy but I decided to give it a go anyway so when I'm half way through it started raining. Only 40 or 50 big fat water drops fell, enough to ruin my work (again)

Anyway... It's sanded now waiting for some "inspiration"

Intelligence chases me, but I'm a lot faster! Fernando

04-21-2008 02:46 PM

pariah
Senior Heliman
Location: West Valley City, UT - United States of America

Thanks! Now I'll have two canopies to paint.

I'll still have to prime the "new" one that I just ordered. For the primer, I went with a primer suggested by the paint shop guy - Spray Max 2k urethane filler/primer.

The stuff is pretty neat, if pricy. It's about $18 or so. It's a rattle-can primer, but it's also a two-part primer. The rattle can has a plunger on the bottom which you press to break a capsule with the hardener in it. From then on, you've got 48 hours to use the primer. (After spraying it, it does cure faster than what's left in the bottle - down to 30 minutes if at 60C, or overnight if at 20C.)

So you get a pro-grade two-part urethane primer in an easy-to-use rattle can. The only downside is you have to take similar precautions for this stuff that you do with a urethane clearcoat - respirator with an organic filter, ventilation, eye/skin protection, etc. The overspray dries to a powder, and that powder gets everywhere - I had overspray 10-15 feet away.

So aside from the nastiness of the application, it's an excellent primer - the stuff won't let go, sands well, etc. After scrubbing for a few minutes this morning (before going to work), I've got a small area of the canopy with the pristine primer left. I'm confident about 20 min and I'll be back to the primer.

Unfortunately, I can't just go back to painting after stripping the paint off. The canopy came with a gelcoat on it (which I sanded prior to priming, of course)- the gelcoat flaked off in a few places, so I have to re-prep those areas. But after that, I'm ready to rock & roll.

Thanks for all your help!

--
Helicopters & Women: The last thing I want is one whose head has a few loose screws.

04-21-2008 05:43 PM

HOMEPAGE

RappyTappy
Elite Veteran
Location: Las Vegas, NV

good find on the 2 part primer in a can, I'll have to check that out.

Chris

Logo 500 3D

Forever Brothers
Mickey Tylo

04-21-2008 07:42 PM

HOMEPAGE

MrMel
Elite Veteran
Location: Lidingo, Sweden

Even more annoying is what I did, painted a very nice canopy, to find out at the field today that it was crap to fly.

Oh well, start sanding and redo, no point loosing a heli because of a "nice canopy".

04-22-2008 06:51 PM

pariah
Senior Heliman
Location: West Valley City, UT - United States of America

Quote
Oh well, start sanding and redo, no point loosing a heli because of a "nice canopy".

I learned this the hard way a couple years back. It's easy to make a canopy that is highly visible and easy to orient with.

Making a nice looking canopy has varying degrees of difficulty - I've seen some real works of art that require considerable skill to airbrush.

But coming up with a canopy that his highly visible and nice looking - that's tough.

All things told, I'd rather fly a canopy that looks like it was painted by a color-blind surfer bum than an airbrushed masterpiece that quickly blends to a silhouette. Looking at the designs by professional canopy painters, it seems that I'm not alone in valuing visibility and orientation over fashion.

--
Helicopters & Women: The last thing I want is one whose head has a few loose screws.

04-22-2008 07:58 PM

HOMEPAGE

RappyTappy
Elite Veteran
Location: Las Vegas, NV

Yeap, neons do it for me

You just cant go wrong when your in the air and it gives you orientation cue which means pull off a wicked maneuver or pull off a wicked crash. I'm working on a some Logo 500 canopies right now, I'm thinking some kewl neons right now, lol can't wait to spray them up this weekend

Chris

Logo 500 3D

Forever Brothers
Mickey Tylo

04-22-2008 08:20 PM

HOMEPAGE

RobRoy
Key Veteran
Location: Huntsville, Alabama

Same here, love the neons.

Ignorance is curable, stupidity is for life.

04-22-2008 08:24 PM

MrMel
Elite Veteran
Location: Lidingo, Sweden

My favorite has always been these, but its like, Ok can do that in my sleep now, need something new

04-22-2008 08:24 PM

HelividD
Heliman
Location: Auburn Hills, MI, USA

Interesting topic. Especially with the Auto-Air. I hadn't painted in years(not that I was ever the best at it) but I then tried my hand on a 600N canopy and the results were the pic below. After taking it to the field and looking at it, I pretty much with the sugg of my flying buds decided that it would not be able to be seen. So I stripped it off as much as I could. I have picked up another blank, and will paint it as I get the time, but I had cleared and the previous one isn't doing to well. I may have to just toss that one, but I am holding out hope.

My local hobby shop doesn't have any of the base coat white, so I may have to as you guys did use automotive primer in a can, but at this stage I am just trying to sand everything down and get a good "base" finish. Any tips?

D

Man.... I had no idea what an addiction this was going to be.....

05-02-2008 03:35 PM

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