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HeliHobby . Ron’s HeliProz South . Century Helicopter

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RJX Hobby Hurrican 50 - Xtreme 50 > Corkscrew rolls - Phase Ring, Nose heavy, or Other???
 
 
Rockohaulic
Elite Veteran
Location: Valencia, CA, USA, 3rd Rock from the Sun

Hi guys - I did the I3DM thing last night to adjust the phase ring. Ended up turning it slightly more clockwise to get rid of interactions for aileron.

But today it was still corkscrewing in rolls. Now I did find out that my bird is nose heavy - even with a full tank of fuel, the nose is heavy. So for the first half of the day I thought maybe it was due to the balance being off.

Then I did a stall turn and pointed the nose straight down and tried to do a rolling stall turn. The heli did an ugly corkscrew that really caught me off gaurd!

So I did another one, and it corkscrewed again. So I really don't believe it is a balance issue. So is my phasing still off? Should I do some fly-fix-fly at the field with the phase ring? I could try going counterclockwise with the phase ring and then flying it to see if that straightens things out.

What else could be causing these non-axial corkscrewing rolls???

Don't Just Survive Your Life - Live It!
Team RJX of USA
04-20-2008 12:04 AM
 
 
ez2bgman
Elite Veteran
Location: N'awlins, LA

After aligning the washout arms with the main grip arms, my cork screwing went away. I was able to do consecutive rolls and they were all straight.

Loosen the phase ring and while looking down from the top of the head, turn the washout base until the washout arms are perfectly parallel with the main grip arms. This is how I have always initially set up the phasing ring on my helis that had adjustable phasing. It has always worked for me.

Gary
RJX of USA
Magnum Fuels
SwitchGlo
>Hot Girlz in da gallery<
04-20-2008 02:12 AM
 
 
AzHyper
Veteran
Location: Az.

Don't know what blades you are running during these tests, but put a set of Radix 600's on it and report back.
04-20-2008 02:32 AM
 
 
Rockohaulic
Elite Veteran
Location: Valencia, CA, USA, 3rd Rock from the Sun

I'm running RotorTech 610s. Very good blades!

Don't Just Survive Your Life - Live It!
Team RJX of USA
04-20-2008 04:35 AM
 
 
patriot21
Key Veteran
Location: Eagle Lake,MN

Rock
Mine cork screws too... i did the "line up the flybar with the boom etc..." phase method... and mine still does it.... after doing rolls a few times i noticed everytime i cork screw.. my fingers putting in elevator without even trying.. i really tried hard on the next attempt to not do this and I was able to complete a nice roll...
I am going to add some expo in... I believe this is my problem

My Sponsor:VISA
04-20-2008 02:47 PM
 
 
Tom Viper
Senior Heliman
Location: Gothenburg, SWEDEN

Nose heavy or tail heavy will do this to a heli.
Mine was tail heavy, but now with the weight on the mainshaft, it goes straight as an arrow.

You can't use trims to balance the heli, use weight instead. Ex. When you trim "back" this will be opposit when you´re inverted or during a roll.
04-20-2008 09:54 PM
 
 
Foxden
Key Veteran
Location: Port Charlotte, FL. USA

30% expo does wonders

Clyde Fox
Port Charlotte FL
RJX of USA Field Rep
Team Rotorworkz
Morgan Fuel Rep
04-21-2008 04:59 AM
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
Delamar
Senior Heliman
Location: adelaide, australia

ez2bgman

can you please explain what you did in more detail. Are you talking about the mod were you have the mixing arms parallel with the blade grips, instead of 90 degrees from the long link? Or are you just talking about adjusting the phase ring.
04-21-2008 01:37 PM
 
 
ez2bgman
Elite Veteran
Location: N'awlins, LA

Delamar,

I am taking about the phasing ring. If you were to look straight down the head of my Xtreme 50, you will see that the washout arms are aligned with the main grip arms (not the mixing arms on the main grips). I found that with aligning the phasing ring according to the manual, the washout arms were not parallel with main grip arms and my X50 would cork screw while doing rolls. Since I realigned the phasing ring so that the washout arms are parallel with the main grip arms, the cork screwing has gone away. When I flew this passed Saturday, I was able to do consecutive linear rolls with ease.

As far as the mixing arms go, I do have mine so that they too are parallel with the main grip arms. I easily get equal travel on the collective and the cyclics. I am running +/- 12.5 for collective and +/- 8.5 on the cyclics and my X50 is very quick on the sticks yet doesn't exhibit any unwanted tendencies.

Gary
RJX of USA
Magnum Fuels
SwitchGlo
>Hot Girlz in da gallery<
04-21-2008 06:13 PM
 
 
Nasscar][
Veteran
Location: Newark, Delaware

 ez2bgman

Can you post a detailed pic(s) of what your talking about?


Thanks,


Nas,
04-21-2008 06:56 PM
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
patriot21
Key Veteran
Location: Eagle Lake,MN

ahh.... nascar... just look down the top of the heli... your main blade grips should be parallel to the washout arms just above the swash... make sure your flybar is centered with the boom...
mine was off... i can't wait to try a flight now

My Sponsor:VISA
04-21-2008 08:12 PM
 
 
patriot21
Key Veteran
Location: Eagle Lake,MN

ez2... you are the man... did your method and just took 2 flights with the bird and she rolls like an arrow even stationary...

My Sponsor:VISA
04-21-2008 09:58 PM
 
 
Rockohaulic
Elite Veteran
Location: Valencia, CA, USA, 3rd Rock from the Sun

I can't wait to try it out!

Of course I have to fix my crash damage first!

Don't Just Survive Your Life - Live It!
Team RJX of USA
04-21-2008 10:04 PM
 
 
inkspot1967
Elite Veteran
Location: cranston ri.

like Tom Viper said you never trim a heli you gotta have a perfect balanced heli to fly perfect, everyone always makes this mistake and adds trim or subtrim then exspects it to fly perfect, well it wont. the minite you add trim to the heli you perfectly setup swash will now be tilted which will effect the way the heli will fly.

all my heli's i have had or even setup for everyone i disable the trims so theres no accidently hitting trims in flight. ail,elev,rudder all disabled

Team Cajunhelicopters.com
Rave mini-g
WENZEL CANOPYS
Vibe50 flybarless
Team no Turds
04-22-2008 03:03 PM
 
 
Rockohaulic
Elite Veteran
Location: Valencia, CA, USA, 3rd Rock from the Sun

Hi Gary and Patriot,

I checked on my Xtreme last night, and in it's current configuration, the phase ring is turned quite a bit clockwise from optimal. In other words, I would have to turn it about 1/8 to 1/4 inch counterclock to get the mixing arms parallel with the blade grips.

So, I loosened the set screws and did exactly that. After getting it parallel, I checked out the balls on the swash (with the flybar parallel to the boom) and for the most part they were aligned also with the boom - like in the owners manual. If anything they might be just a tad (very techinical engineering term) counterclockwise when looking down from the top.

So my question to both of you is - where are the balls on the swash on your Xtreme now that you have aligned your mixing arms with the blade grips???

Thanks guys!

Don't Just Survive Your Life - Live It!
Team RJX of USA
04-22-2008 05:52 PM
 
 
I3DM
rrProfessor
Location: Israel

Rock,

My method for getting the phasing done worked for me in every single phasing adjustable machine i have ever flown (probably 10-20 machines) - i find it strange it does not work for you.

Did you make sure youre not inputing any pitch cyclic together with your roll cyclic while doing rolls ? that may very well do it for you, the Xtreme can be very hot on cyclics on some setups.

Team pilot for RJX, Helidirect, Logictech, ThunderPower, Fromeco
www.liorzahavi.com
04-22-2008 11:59 PM
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
Tom Viper
Senior Heliman
Location: Gothenburg, SWEDEN

It can also be the blades, I got a pair of blades where this phenomenen was apparant. Just changing blades and it went away.
04-28-2008 10:39 AM
 
 
patriot21
Key Veteran
Location: Eagle Lake,MN

Quote 
So my question to both of you is - where are the balls on the swash on your Xtreme now that you have aligned your mixing arms with the blade grips
After the realignment per ez2bgman's method... the balls on the swash are a tad counterclockwise to where the rear servo rod hooks up to the swash

My Sponsor:VISA
04-28-2008 02:05 PM
 
 
Rockohaulic
Elite Veteran
Location: Valencia, CA, USA, 3rd Rock from the Sun

Quote 
After the realignment per ez2bgman's method... the balls on the swash are a tad counterclockwise to where the rear servo rod hooks up to the swash

Thanks Patriot.

That is a big difference from mine when I did it the other way. They were a bit clockwise.

I am going to try the same method you and Gary did and see how it rolls...

Don't Just Survive Your Life - Live It!
Team RJX of USA
04-28-2008 05:30 PM
 
 
ez2bgman
Elite Veteran
Location: N'awlins, LA

Rock,

Did you get a chance to try out your X50 since you changed the phasing?

Gary
RJX of USA
Magnum Fuels
SwitchGlo
>Hot Girlz in da gallery<
05-01-2008 05:18 AM
 
 
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RJX Hobby Hurrican 50 - Xtreme 50 > Corkscrew rolls - Phase Ring, Nose heavy, or Other???
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