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Gasser Model RC Helicopters > oil brand
 
 
shuttlepilot
Elite Veteran
Location: Mullins, South Carolina

I studied the heat related to oil content theory quite a bit when I was flying glow because I was mixing my own fuel. I was usually running 0-5% nitro with 16% oil. I tried with 12% and 16% and I couldn't see any significant difference in hovering temps, so I stuck with 16%. Actually, when I quit worring about temps so much, my tuning got much better. I've never even checked the temp on my gas engine. I'm going to stick with 32:1 36:1...in that neighborhood. Engine runs smooth and has more than enough power for my flying style.

Gas is Great
Quick OD 26
04-21-2008 04:52 PM
 
 
Flyfalcons
Veteran
Location: Bonney Lake, WA

So what some of you are saying is you mix oil more rich than the mfg recommends to compensate for your tuning inabilities.

_______________________

Ryan Winslow
X-Spec, EVO 50
04-21-2008 05:10 PM
 
 
shuttlepilot
Elite Veteran
Location: Mullins, South Carolina

Zenoah says 32:1...... If you are referring to my tuning abilities...you are sadly mistaken.

Gas is Great
Quick OD 26
04-21-2008 05:14 PM
 
 
Flyfalcons
Veteran
Location: Bonney Lake, WA

Would you mix Amsoil Sabre at 32:1?

_______________________

Ryan Winslow
X-Spec, EVO 50
04-21-2008 05:24 PM
 
 
shuttlepilot
Elite Veteran
Location: Mullins, South Carolina

I dunno. I've never used Amsoil. I would probably try it that way first and see how the engine ran, and how the plug looked after a tank of running....then adjust the percentage from there.

Gas is Great
Quick OD 26
04-21-2008 05:29 PM
 
 
rbort
Elite Veteran
Location: Franklin, MA - U.S.A.

Yes we're dumb

And we need more oil so to protect us from our stupid mistakes.

I mix Amsoil at 36:1, if you're smart you should mix it at 100:1 per the manufacturers recommendations.

-=>Raja.

1005 Xcell Gas, BHH G26 3D Plus, Jewel Generator
Spectra-g, BHH G26 3D Plus, Jewel Generator
04-21-2008 05:31 PM
 
 
Flyfalcons
Veteran
Location: Bonney Lake, WA

Well that's what I do on all my gasser planes, even when I had a Zenoah. Zenoah created their manuals before God was born and before synthetic oils were created to be run at leaner ratios. As long as you mix oil per the oil mfg's recommended ratio you'll be fine - no need to mix it 2-3 times richer than recommended simply because you are running in the 10K range. What range do 2-stroke motorcycles run?

_______________________

Ryan Winslow
X-Spec, EVO 50
04-21-2008 05:39 PM
 
 
shuttlepilot
Elite Veteran
Location: Mullins, South Carolina

Quote 
Well that's what I do on all my gasser planes, even when I had a Zenoah. Zenoah created their manuals before God was born and before synthetic oils were created to be run at leaner ratios.

I don't know if synthetic was neccessarily made to be able to run leaner. I DO know that synthetic oil will burn off quicker than petroleum based oil. That is why synthetic oil usually produces less smoke....so to run leaner is not exactly why synthetics were made. As far as Zenoah writing their manuals before synthetics......I was running synthetic oil in my moto-x bikes back in the late 70's early 80's.....my G26H wasn't being produced then..

Like has been stated earlier, most come up with their "own thing" that works for them. With that in mind, I don't think I would come on here and say to folks that have been flying gas for MANY years that they run a "rich" oil mixture because they have "tuning inabilities", when you have never heard or seen their helis fly.
I guess it's a great way to make new friends though...

Gas is Great
Quick OD 26
04-21-2008 07:37 PM
 
 
Flyfalcons
Veteran
Location: Bonney Lake, WA

Well if you do your own thing with stuff that has a specific way to be used, you might be in for a shock. Steve Wittman, famed airplane designer, did his own thing with modern aircraft fabric and died because of it. I'd really like to see these engines that are running Amsoil 100:1 Sabre at a mix ratio of 32:1. You do realize that it was designed to lubricate at a higher mix ratio, right? Notice I didn't say cool - the fuel cools the engine, the oil lubricates it. So yes, if you are running oil 2-3 times thicker than it was designed for, chances are there's something up with your engine tuning.

_______________________

Ryan Winslow
X-Spec, EVO 50
04-21-2008 08:31 PM
 
 
haggy38
Senior Heliman
Location: Bogotá - Colombia

Motul 800 offroad, 40:1, the engine has at least 5 gallons, and looks like new inside the engine(Zenoah 231). Motul recommends 50:1, but I like the safe area of 40:1. Very smooth.

Regards,
Gustavo
04-21-2008 11:39 PM
 
 
FCM
Elite Veteran
Location: Back in Blighty!

Just to clear up what is possibly a commonly held misconception here:

Quote 
I studied the heat related to oil content theory quite a bit when I was flying glow because I was mixing my own fuel. I was usually running 0-5% nitro with 16% oil. I tried with 12% and 16% and I couldn't see any significant difference in hovering temps, so I stuck with 16%.

Running oil ratios typically used for plain bearing engines like most heli glow engines are, does mean that the oil will remove some heat from the engine.

This in effect can be basically ignored with Gasoline powered engines in our helis due to the small percentage we are using. Any increase in oil raises the combustion pressure, which raises the temperature. The Gasoline 'burn' is far more mixture sensitive than methanol.

Of far more significant effect, is being able to run the engine richer by running less oil. The combustion temperatures of a gas engine are higher than glow anyway and running the carbi rich does reduce the combustion temperatures. You can't do this running synthetic oil at mineral oil ratios.

If you were to follow Zenoah's instructions, there would not be any Vario gas powered helis flying today as this engine is for 'RC car use only'.

Paul.

Motul 800 Off-Road is a good oil. Motul themselves say you can run this oil up to 100:1 ratio in some motorcycles. 40:1 is way over- oiling the engine.
04-22-2008 02:15 AM
 
 
hal
Heliman
Location: canada

Oh ya these little motors can rev.


And speaking of which, here is "The Beast"

Head Shell: DarkSoul
Cylinder: CC Racing Pro Modified Zenoah 34mm 4-bolt marine cylinder
Base Gasket: CC Racing/DarkSoul Copper
Crankcase: DarkSoul Billet 4-bolt
Piston: CC Racing Pro Modified Zenoah
Crank: Zenoah 28mm
Crank Bearings: Fast Eddy Ceramic
Plug: NGK
Intake Manifold: CC Racing Engines
Low Drag Seals: CC Racing Engines
Ignition: Cy
Estimated HP: 6.5+ (still testing)
Est. Max RPM: 20,000


Bear in mind this is a rc car motor, but as previously mentioned the toxic motor does rev to 12500 at optimum conditions.
04-22-2008 04:16 AM
 
 
shuttlepilot
Elite Veteran
Location: Mullins, South Carolina

Quote 
If you were to follow Zenoah's instructions, there would not be any Vario gas powered helis flying today as this engine is for 'RC car use only'.

I bow to your infinate knowledge. My G-26H says made for RC-Heli.....I guess it wouldn't start being mounted in anything else.. Sorry, this is just my reaction when faced with a SA comment.

I guess all the years of moto-x racing I was involved in was "wrong"...by me mixing oil according to Yamaha and Suzuki's recommendations... So.....don't follow the directions guys, the manufacturers don't know what they are talking about.

Hanson doesn't recommend running a "lean" oil mixture on their modified engines either.....guess they don't know what they are talking about.

I'm not telling anyone what is wrong or not as some on here. Just posting what works WELL for my engine.
Have fun.

Gas is Great
Quick OD 26
04-22-2008 02:25 PM
 
 
FCM
Elite Veteran
Location: Back in Blighty!

No really, the G230/260 engines are not for heli use. They work great in helis but Zenoah have their own marketing strategy.

Not being sarcastic - really, but all these manufacturers and even engine tuners have their own agenda. Anyway, as I mentioned, if it works for you then good for you

Paul.
04-22-2008 02:40 PM
 
 
rerazor
Elite Veteran
Location: Mich.

I raced Moto-cross for 30 years and we went thru the whole 100:1 amsoil concept. I could never tell the difference in power and after engine tear downs (every 5-10hrs or less) the exhaust ports (mostly the power ports) looked the same as running the recommended manufacture amounts.

Just my 2 cents.
04-22-2008 02:55 PM
 
 
FCM
Elite Veteran
Location: Back in Blighty!

The whole point of running low oil content in our gasser helis is this: Low oil means you can run the carbi rich - rich and smooth and lower temps. That's all it is. There is no other reason to do it apart from perhaps saving a bit on oil costs. Oh yes, it may also reduce carbon build up depending on the make of oil used.

You can of course compare this to other 2 stroke running experiences but I don't imagine there are many installations that will benefit from this specialised running regime. I too used to run MotoX bikes in my youth (who didn't ) but what we are doing here is not comparable IMHO.

Paul.
04-22-2008 03:55 PM
 
 
fla heli boy
Senior Heliman
Location: cape coral, florida

How did I get on this thread??

actually cuz I like gassers. In my d-bike days which ended not long ago, we changed oils many times. When I finally had a pro trick out my last motor, I was informed to run H1R at 32:1. I'll tell you, waht a difference!!! Not in performance, but when you tore the motor down, you could pull the head and literally wipe your finger across the dome and it would look like it just came off the bench. I also went twice as many hours between doing a top end. I didn't race motocross, but hair scrambles, so we didn't tear down every week like those guys. Probably twice a year with TONS of HOURS on the top end in between take downs. I don't know if the little motors like it, but I can tell you my 250's LOVED that oil.

"If it flies, floats or f***ks, you're better off renting it"
04-22-2008 04:02 PM
 
 
JETMAN
Senior Heliman
Location: WA

FCM, majority here is saying to run much more oil, meaning, extra.. There was only a handful of us saying to use the oil as per the manufacturers specs, and nobody said to use less unless I missed it..

www.3dfoamy.com
04-22-2008 04:10 PM
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
rerazor
Elite Veteran
Location: Mich.

Yeah I don't even own a gasser (looking to get one, maybe) so I'm just throwing my 2 cents worth out there since I have raced/worked on MX bikes.

Don't even get me going on the change to stupid 4 strokes in MX. The cost has sky rocketed and the valves are JUNK JUNK and sound is off the chart.

Okay, I'm done sorry to hijack the thread.
04-22-2008 04:21 PM
 
 
rbort
Elite Veteran
Location: Franklin, MA - U.S.A.

fla heli boy

That would be my exact and precise point. If you run with more oil than less, your motor outlasts you unless you break it in a crash. You'll never have to tear it down and do repairs on top ends, etc. I've proven this theory by flying my gassers 2260 flights or 565 hours and I've NEVER had to tear down a motor and rebuild it due to wear. The only time I had to do that was due to crash damage or upgrading it to a lighter piston or from a 23 to a 26.

-=>Raja.

1005 Xcell Gas, BHH G26 3D Plus, Jewel Generator
Spectra-g, BHH G26 3D Plus, Jewel Generator
04-22-2008 04:24 PM
 
 
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