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Gasser Model RC Helicopters > oil brand
 
 
digger123
Senior Heliman
Location: suffolk .uk

why risk running 100/1 ratio theres no sense in it the needles would have to be spot on or you will risk wearing the engine out rapidly.i have run a fg marder 1/5th scale r/c car flatout for two years on £3 mineral oil at 25/1 yes it is alittle more messy but the engine is well protected..all oils work well its up to you mineral oil cheap messy, semi synthetic ,or fully synthetic for smaller amounts and little smoke and mess..
04-18-2008 09:04 PM
 
 
Busher
Veteran
Location: Manchester, England

I have used the King cobra racing venom in my FG Monster Beetle for 2 years now. This oil is castor based and very sticky, but I can tell you that after 2 years ragging the car up and down a field at full blast, there was no discernable wear on the ring. The only down side to running this oil is that it did coke the top of the piston with a bit of carbon, the synthetics don't seem to do this as much.

I would use it without hesitation, but you could also try the fully synthetic brew that they make I have heard good results from the guys that use it.

Good luck
Busher
04-18-2008 10:02 PM
 
 
digger123
Senior Heliman
Location: suffolk .uk

i have the venom oil in my shed it is caster based but is a very good quality oil. i use it to break in my new engines. it is very sticky smokey stuff.not my ideal choice for helis.
04-18-2008 10:25 PM
 
 
mcfast
Veteran
Location: Canada

It's so easy, when looking for a good oil, just look at what temp it burns, the higher the better and once it is all burned up, the lest amount of deposit, that one is harder can only go by experience, we did a bunch of test a few years back, we pored a bunch of different brands of oil in to a frying-pan and heated it up until it caught on fire and then we would check the temp, then once it all burned up we would look at the deposit left in the pan, found some very interesting things about so call "very good oil" I wont name any brands, it's like thong gas on a fire, you know what mean, but one of the highly recommended oils here did not do so good.
04-19-2008 03:42 AM
 
 
hal
Heliman
Location: canada

I'm running belray h1r at 32:1. These motors rev alot higher that any airplane motor. Like twice. I also have a few 1/5 scale gas cars, couple gas planes, and now a gas heli. Err on the side of caution and run with a bit more oil to be safe. I just run this mixture in everything with no ill effects. One jug, good for everything, including my whipper,blower, and chain saw.
04-19-2008 05:04 AM
 
 
shuttlepilot
Elite Veteran
Location: Mullins, South Carolina

I almost hate to admit that I run a cheap synthetic oil that you can buy at Walmart. I usually run around 32:1. Amsoil is not available anywhere near me and Walmart is down the road about 4 miles...so..
I bought a gasser for the economy of operation and convience....so I got the convenient oil....

I'm not 3ding my heli like a lot of guys do, but I don't putt around with it either. I have a total of 72 hours on my engine with at least 1/2 of that with this oil and the piston and ring are nice and shiney without any scoring on the exhaust side at all. Now this maybe just because I'm running at 32:1, but it works for me.

Honestly my G-26 doesn't look any more "precise" than my leaf blower engine....inside. The G-26 does have a more precise carb, but the guts look pretty much the same. Seems like the largest difference is the load that they are put under, which makes heat dissapation more critical. Sometimes I think folks "overthink" things because the engine is in a model heli.

I haven't had to touch my leafblower, string-trimmer, or chainsaw in 8 years now. I think the only reason that the G-26 would need maintenance in that span is that it is used MUCH more often......not from the oil I'm running in it. Of course these are MHO only....and usually each with develop his or her "own way" of doing things..

Gas is Great
QWW Field Rep
04-19-2008 05:37 AM
 
 
High Spy
Heliman
Location: UK

We use Amsoil Sabre professional here in the UK, you can purchase on the net from:
http://www.performanceoilsltd.co.uk/

We mix at about 95:1 on our helicopters with no problems using standard unleaded 95 octane. We use the same oil and mix for running in, replacing piston rings at around 40 hours. I have just rebuilt a 23cc engine that has done 107hrs without any servicing. It belongs to an Italian client, there was little or no wear of the bore and the carbon on the piston came off with a finger nail.
04-19-2008 03:28 PM
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
Disciple4123
Veteran
Location: Waynesboro, VA USA

I run 2.5 OZ/gal of Amsoil Sabre.

A tip: the oil I use weighs 21 grams per ounce. So I weigh the bottle before pouring, then pour oil until the bottle is 53 grams lighter. This gives me exact, easy measurements.

Eric
04-19-2008 06:02 PM
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
TooBizzy
Senior Heliman
Location: Georgetown, Ohio USA

Can someone, who has experimented, tell us the difference they see when mixing Amsoil @ different ratio's. Like 2oz, 2.5oz, and 3oz/gal? Since we're talking about oils, ratios, and brands, maybe someone could chime in and tell us the results of what they've tried?

P-Gasser Se, Raptor 50 Se Hyper, Raptor 30v2, Trex450se, 3dx450...
04-20-2008 02:15 PM
 
 
FCM
Elite Veteran
Location: Back in Blighty!

It's okay to run fully synthetic oils at rich ratios - many do it here but you don't need to with most modern fully synthetic oils. If you want to run straight mineral then yes, you need to run a good amount of oil in your fuel as it does not provide as much protection at so called lean ratios as a good synthetic. There are also semi-synthetic oils that are good to use but also need to be used really like straight mineral oil.

I run Motul 710 as I cannot buy Amsoil here. I run it at 66:1 ratio and lift heavy payloads with my Benzine in tropical heat on a daily basis. I run this ratio as more oil is just not needed. More oil raises the compression ratio, increases the temperature and makes the needles more sensitive to tune. It can also make a mess. If you do decide to run 'lean' oil ratios then you will need to learn how to do this as simply cutting the amount of oil may cause you problems.

The use of Amsoil and other fully synthetic oils at ratios higher than 40:1 in Gasser helis was pioneered by Bill Meador and others who used to post a lot on RR here. They carried out extensive testing before deciding it was a good thing to do. They also have always maintained that this is just one method of running your Gasser heli and that there are other successful way to do this.

It will be up to the individual to decide which way to run and tune their heli. I can tell you my expereince and that the only time I have ever had any wear or damage to an engine was when I stuck a piston ring when running Motul 510 semi at the ridiculous ratio of 20:1! It took me a while to arrive at my present ratio of 66:1 but the engines just love it. I have never worn out any engine component since. I would also try to reduce the oil content more if only I had the time to carry out more testing.

Hope this helps,

Paul.
04-20-2008 02:57 PM
 
 
rerazor
Elite Veteran
Location: Mich.

Quote 
More oil raises the compression ratio, increases the temperature

That is one of the biggest points that most people that run two-strokes don't understand. With that said I always used Honda HP2 in all of our moto-cross race bikes at 40:1 (thats what was recommended). Before synthetic oil the main problems were with carbon build up in the exhaust ports etc..

Just my 2 cents.
04-20-2008 06:42 PM
 
 
TooBizzy
Senior Heliman
Location: Georgetown, Ohio USA

Absolutely....Any and all comments from guys thats "Been There Done That" are greatly appreciated. The reason I ask is I just got my Predator running and mixed 3oz of Amsoil Saber to a gal of Coleman. I bought my Predator used and it had 2-3 gallons of Ozark ran thru it already. I thought I'd start on the rich side. It seems to run very good hovering @ 1600 HS, the tail only twitches from side to side about 1/4 inch. It was worse in my first hovers, but lowered the gain on the gyro and that seemed to help a bunch. Plus at that time I was adjusting the needles a bit too.

Problem is, when I go into idle 1 and 2, 1700 & 1800 HS, it runs rough and really makes the tail kick a lot worse. It is very smooth on normal mode and 1600 HS...Is this becasue I'm running 3oz/gal? My needle's off a bit? I'm about 1 3/8 high and low. I'm running a CSM 10 w/stator gator only ingaging in Idle 1 and 2.

In normal mode (no gov), if I do a full collective climb from hover, it takes the throttle very good and the engine runs smoothly. Lots of power! That part doesn't make sense to me. Guess becasue its under load?

Could running 3oz to a gallon cause this or just need to tweak the needles a bit more. Since it runs so well at 1600 HS, I haven't felt much like messing with it. But will need my idle ups when needing neg collective. I will need to get it sorted then...

jb

P-Gasser Se, Raptor 50 Se Hyper, Raptor 30v2, Trex450se, 3dx450...
04-20-2008 06:50 PM
 
 
AceBird
Elite Veteran
Location: Utica, NY USA

Quote 
In normal mode (no gov),

That aught to tell you something.

Ace
What could be more fun?
04-21-2008 12:56 AM
 
 
FCM
Elite Veteran
Location: Back in Blighty!

TooBusy - you have some variables there - napthah based fuel and the govenor.

I just hope the Coleman fuel is good because some that post here have fund these alternative fuels to be inconsistant. That's okay if you know it's inconsistant. The difficulty may be finding a good tune with this variable.

Leave the govenor off for now and get the the engine broken it. It will not be broken in yet so the mixture seting cannot be finalised.

You may find the CSM10 will struggle to govern your engine. Most gasser flyers seem to find the RL20 works better as it has the full PC menu adjustments available. But don't take my word for it - try sorting the govenor once you get the engine broken in and the needles set.

If you want to reduce your oil content then please do not do this until you are thouroughly conversant with Bill Meador's running and tuning instructions.


Paul.
04-21-2008 02:09 AM
 
 
TooBizzy
Senior Heliman
Location: Georgetown, Ohio USA

Since it starts easy, idles good, and runs so good in Normal mode, I think I will take the gov out of the picture and manually set some idle up curves. That will tell me whether its the gov or not. Then I'll know what to do. The CSM 10 came with the heli, so I thought I would try it. The thought of it not working on these engines has crossed my mind...

I'm also not eliminating the possiblities that it is the fuel. I thought maybe it could be the oil content. I've heard/read that so many runs @ 2oz's....And I'm at 3 oz right now. I have about a gallon run through it so will try 2.5 oz's next time and see how that reacts.

Thanks for the suggestion FCM.

P-Gasser Se, Raptor 50 Se Hyper, Raptor 30v2, Trex450se, 3dx450...
04-21-2008 02:32 AM
 
 
JETMAN
Senior Heliman
Location: WA

Quote 
These motors rev alot higher that any airplane motor. Like twice.

So Hal, your telling me that these gas heli motors are turning over 10-12,000 rpms+?

www.3dfoamy.com
04-21-2008 06:23 AM
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
FCM
Elite Veteran
Location: Back in Blighty!

When I run a G260RC engine it runs at around 10 - 10,500 rpm. My 230 engine runs faster at 11,800. Toxic Al's 231 engines run faster than this I believe around 12,500 - 13,000. I'm sure he will correct me if I'm wrong

TooBizzy, don't just cut the oil without first reading up on how to tune your engine with this oil content first.

Paul.
04-21-2008 06:28 AM
 
 
hal
Heliman
Location: canada

Yes they do, why do you ask jetman.
I also have the toxic in my spectra, and yes it does rev very high.
04-21-2008 01:26 PM
 
 
hal
Heliman
Location: canada

My 26 cc car motor, all done up by cc racing, actually will rev to 20000 easily.
04-21-2008 01:41 PM
 
 
rbort
Elite Veteran
Location: Franklin, MA - U.S.A.

In my opinion

The "less heat" benefits that you gain from lowering the oil content is not worth the added risk you gain in scoring the engine. But I respect the fact that everyone has their own opinion of what's best for their engines so the ultimate decision is up to you what to do with the mix.

I'm running in the neighborhood of 36 to 40:1 and see no reason to cut it further to run in the 64:1 range or so.

-=>Raja.

1005 Xcell Gas, BHH G26 3D Plus, Jewel Generator
Spectra-g, BHH G26 3D Plus, Jewel Generator
04-21-2008 02:44 PM
 
 
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Gasser Model RC Helicopters > oil brand
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