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Main Discussion > SERVOS: An in depth look - Part 1
 
 
playfairKey Veteran - Location: Rochester, NY -
ALL of us have pondered the difficult question of servo selection.

Besides the obvious trade-offs of price vs. performance, the broader issue is how to interpret the given specifications to make the best decision.

Manufacturers only provide us with an unloaded speed and a stall torque, neither of which is directly useful in choosing the best servo for a particular application.

Part 1 of this topic will deal with investigating these specs at more detail. A few others have done similar testing or made circumstantial assumptions, but I wanted to answer some questions and be able to dig a little deeper.

I started off by building a test fixture consisting of a bracket to support the servo, an electric resistance brake, and an external potentiometer.

The brake (brass colored cylindrical thing in the above right picture) varies in torque based on input voltage. I simply calibrated it at a given moment arm length using a force gauge.

The above line equation is then used with a known servo arm length to give us ounce-inches of torque.

The servo is controlled using a standard transmitter/receiver, with the total movement triggered by a switch. Endpoints were adjusted to achieve 60 degrees of travel (which varied even within manufacturers).

To acquire the data, I wrote a program in Labview. It records position and current in relation to time. The complete rig (including power supplies) added little to my already cluttered work bench!


The following screen captures show the behaviors for a S9252 digital and a S9402 analog servo at 5v pushing 16 oz-in for 60 degrees.
The upper graph is position in degrees, the lower is the current signature.

The pulses before and after the movement are the "buzzing" noises we hear as a servo tries to hold position.

Besides the obvious frequency differences, notice how the target endpoint is gradually reached by the analog servo, but the digital servo will use more current to get-to-the-point and decelerate!

This brings us to the good stuff- A chart comparing several servos I had (or borrowed). Though the unloaded speeds for all of them were similar to the given specs, I ended the test once the transit time dropped severely. I couldn't bare to see those little guys moaning so much, plus that extreme is definitely NOT where we want to operate!

Manufacturer specs:
S9252- .14sec@92ozin (4.8)
DS8317- .15/.12@69/84 (4.8.6.0)
S9351- .16/.13@153/192 (4.8/6.0)
Z9000- .06@128 (6v)
HS5975- .13/.10@91/109 (4.8/6.0)
BLS451- .13/.10@118/147 (4.8/6.0)

One observation that stemmed from measuring degrees of travel was noting the servos didn't necessarily return "home" as the loads increased. I started tracking this behavior, and formed the following graph showing the "accuracy" of the same servos.

A few degrees of this "slop" is likely due to the support structure flexing, but the trends should be relative.

This information is swell and all, but how does it fit into the "big picture"? If you've stayed interested this far, you are surely asking, "What does my servo see for a load during flight?"

Go to SERVOS: An in depth look - Part 2


The sky is our canvas
04-14-2008 05:33 PM
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
TwistedRotor
Senior Heliman
Location: Tulsa, OK- USA

Awesome!! I'm one the edge of my seat waiting for Part II. Great work and thanks.

The helicopter is a machine trying to commit suicide,our job is convincing her to fly...
04-14-2008 05:42 PM
 
 
frebou
Key Veteran
Location: Montreal / Canada

same thing here!! VERY interesting!

BEAM - Beautifully Engineered Action Machine
04-14-2008 05:44 PM
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
FBoss
Veteran
Location: Cincinnati, Ohio, USA

Is part two ready yet! This is great. Thank you

The good ole times are now ,000132
04-14-2008 05:59 PM
 
 
xcellgasman101
Elite Veteran
Location: WOODWARD, OKLA....

Very Cool, Playfair,, now let's see Part 2,, Thanks for posting,, XGM/VGM

John Crotts
www.soonerhelicamproductions.com
04-14-2008 06:14 PM
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
kogibankole
Senior Heliman
Location: albuquerque

im not gonna lie; i dont really get it!

if im not blade bogging youll find me pack puffing
04-14-2008 06:17 PM
 
 
Chuckie
Key Veteran
Location: Crofton Maryland, MHA member

Excellent tests and good information. I might have to send you some servos to test out. I'm interested in part 2 as well but I imagine you'll see a range of loading depending on what the heli is doing, how the pilot is flying, and the external forces on the heli.

Charles

Please stand by for faster service!
04-14-2008 06:21 PM
 
 
JuanRodriguez
Elite Veteran
Location: Rochester, New York

Hey David,

Can I send you one of my Fut FP148 servos for testing ??

I remember telling Ray at one point that spending more than $12 on a servo was a waste of money !!

If you agree, I'll pull the servo out of one my helis......

(Here I am...leaving myself wide open for you and Ray !! I'm sure neither of you will disappoint !!..... )

PS-- Nice writeup !
04-14-2008 06:24 PM
 
 
Stick Twanger
Heliman
Location: Honeoye Falls, NY

Very cool test playfair!

Quote 
im not gonna lie; i dont really get it!

Playfair put together the test fixture to tell you exactly what your servo's transit speed is for a given amount of torque. Manufacturer's specs are unloaded which doesn't do us much good as playfair points out.
By increasing the torque you can see in the graph at what point the servo begins to significantly slow down.
For example, the 9000 starts to slow down at 60 in ounces of resistance while the 9351 does OK out to about 100 inch ounces of resistance.

I am particularly interested in the second graph. You can see that most of the servos stayed pretty close in accuracy throughout the test. The one that sticks out is the 5975. It fell off like a wet noodle. Even though it continued to do well in the speed range, it lost it's accuracy. I wonder if that would ever be noticed in flight.

The analog versus digital graph is also interesting. Notice that the digital servo hits its mark and abruptly stops. You can even see the surge of current to stop it. The analog servo creeps up to it's end point and there is no current spike. I take this to mean the analog servo takes longer to get there but may use less power doing it. Any thoughts on that?
Nice work playfair.

Whats in part 2??
04-14-2008 06:30 PM
 
 
kogibankole
Senior Heliman
Location: albuquerque

okay thats better. You guys on runryder are really great guys.

if im not blade bogging youll find me pack puffing
04-14-2008 06:34 PM
 
 
fr8brkr
Senior Heliman
Location: Asheville,NC

Playfair,
It's a shame you were not able to find more time to do an in depth study of the subject matter rather than just glossing over some the better known stuff !!! All kidding aside, I commend you and your efforts for a better understanding of how these little marvels operate. Thank you

Problems ? -- Mine are flown in fresh daily
04-14-2008 06:34 PM
 
 
Chuckie
Key Veteran
Location: Crofton Maryland, MHA member

How do we read the accuracy chart? The closer the servo stays to 60 degrees the more accurate? Is this like a return to center accuracy test versus load?

I see you are recording the average and peak current so do you plan on combining that information with the torque test? For a series a square wave inputs, like doing tick tocks, the stopping current will be high as you see in the first 9252 graph.

In your speed vs torque test I don't see the results matching the manufactures specs. I wonder how the manfus test their servos.

Charles

Please stand by for faster service!
04-14-2008 06:45 PM
 
 
JKos
Elite Veteran
Location: City of California in the state of Maryland

playfair,
Are your 60 deg times based on the servo being in constant motion over the entire 60 degs or are you counting accel and decel as well?

Perhaps another interesting way to present the speed versus torque data is as a "percent deviation from zero load speed" versus torque. That might give a clearer picture of which servos better maintain their speed as load increases.


Charles,
> I wonder how the manfus test their servos.

Speed wise, it is zero load and in constant motion over the 60 degs (no acceleration of decelaration within the 60 degs). Some discussion here: http://www.runryder.com/helicopter/t158077p1/

- John

Protos -- Logo 10
04-14-2008 07:01 PM
 
 
playfair
Key Veteran
Location: Rochester, NY

Charles-

Yes, on the accuracy chart, the closer to th set point of 60 deg as load increases, the better.

I am counting 98% of the servo travel. The graph normalizes to show the total degrees moved. Because the top and bottom are flat lines, I trigger the timer once the servo moves 1% of the total distance, and stop it at 99%. So yes, it includes most of the accel/decel.

As far as how the current is measured, I'm choosing at this point to use the "average", as combining the two gets really fuzzy, since the "peaks" are high even when unloaded. Open to ideas here.

My "unloaded" speeds are a slightly slower than spec partly because I'm measuring start to stop, but also because the servos do see the brake inertia, even with no additional load. This is why the lowest torque I measure is not zero.


The sky is our canvas
04-14-2008 07:20 PM
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
JKos
Elite Veteran
Location: City of California in the state of Maryland

playfair,
Why not measure/report both scenarios? Both including the accel and decel and in constant motion, that is. You could easily derive the constant motion number by using the middle 30 degs of the data you already have.

Showing both may reveal interesting differences and/or trends.

Also, you once mentioned using a 0.25 Ohm resistor for the current measurement. Are you still doing that? I would submit that is too large of a value given the current levels these servos demand. The servo is no longer operating at the voltage you have specified.

- John

Protos -- Logo 10
04-14-2008 07:28 PM
 
 
playfair
Key Veteran
Location: Rochester, NY

You're right, John. I can go back (after a short break :c) and look at the middle sections. I wasn't too concerned with "how" they are spec'd but rather what we actually get with loads applied.

I also did a quick look at the time for longer travels, since +/-100 ATV's (where we normally run) is actually between 75 and 90 degrees of movement.

Yes, for the above I did use the .25ohm resistor, which means there was a drop of about 1/2 volt for 2 amps. I am now using the Eagle Tree data logger, which uses hall effect to measure current unobtrusively. I'll verify a few points now that the procedure is ironed out.


The sky is our canvas
04-14-2008 07:58 PM
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
AirWolfRC
rrProfessor
Location: 42½ N, 83½ W

It looks like speed vs load is anything but linear.

What would be interesting is to see the curves for the servos to a consistent % of rated load. That would provide some light on the reliability of mfg. specs.
04-14-2008 08:12 PM
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
JKos
Elite Veteran
Location: City of California in the state of Maryland

Indeed, percent rated speed versus percent rated torque might be quite interesting.

- John

Protos -- Logo 10
04-15-2008 06:37 PM
 
 
helimatt
Elite Veteran
Location: Lafayette, IN

SHeesh, the 5975 is not really doing very well on that "accuracy" plot. Worst of the bunch. It is an early generation Hitec digital, so perhaps thats why the replaced it with the 6975.

Maybe I need to upgrade. Hey, do you work for one of the servo manufacturers?

Never, ever, ever, ever give up.
04-15-2008 07:23 PM
 
 
playfair
Key Veteran
Location: Rochester, NY

No, I don't work for any servo or otherwise heli related company.
That is why I didn't make any conclusions on the data, it's up to you guys

A friend of mine is ordering new Hitecs within the next couple of weeks, hopefully he'll let me take a peek at them.

Remember that "rated torque" is really a stalled servo, and is of no use to us. Right prior to that limit the travel time is likely a few minutes!


The sky is our canvas
04-15-2008 08:48 PM
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
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Main Discussion > SERVOS: An in depth look - Part 1
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