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Gasser Model RC Helicopters > Crashed my gasser today!
 
 
Shiro Muji
Senior Heliman
Location: Japan

Hi, I crashed my gasser today while doing inverted hover. it suddenly piroutte and without control. My radio is jR X9303 and my gyro is 401 with 9254 gyro servo. . . What would be the possible cause of my crash. the battery is okey upon checking. by the way upon checking when it landed the switch is in the off position. . . a little bit weird. is it possible for the switch to turn off while flying? My switch mount has vibration isolation mount. or is it possible that my rudder servo is malfunctioning? why is it that it has no control. hope that you guys can share some insights. thanks

Maxum with Hanson 3D Max, Maxum Nitro, Maxum 30.5cc modified engine, RH Generator, Sceadu .50Hyper
04-13-2008 12:12 PM
 
 
jann
New Heliman
Location: Philippines

hmmm sounds like a switch failure...
check this out http://www.runryder.com/helicopter/t62459p1/
04-13-2008 02:59 PM
 
 
Toadster25
Veteran
Location: Iowa

That is kind of hard to figure out because your switch may have been switched off when you hit the ground or did it hapened before. Do you know for sure that you lost all control or did you just loose the tail before it hit the ground?
04-13-2008 03:13 PM
 
 
jschenck
Elite Veteran
Location: La Vista, NE.

Did you check the battery voltage with a load? Perhaps the battery has a weak cell which won't hold voltage under load. If the voltage drops too far the Futaba 401 will reboot.

Did you still have control of the rest of the heli before it went in? That would tell you if it was a switch. Were you able to hit throttle hold?

...yep...
04-13-2008 03:26 PM
 
 
xcellgasman101
Elite Veteran
Location: WOODWARD, OKLA....

Dang Shiro Muji, Sorry to hear that,, That sucks,,

Also,, this is after the fact,, but if I have a crash, because of the tail.. the first thing I do,,is check to see how hot the servo is,, I'll bet the switch went off when it hit the ground,, but it could have went off in flight,, but doutfull.. XGM/VGM

John Crotts
www.soonerhelicamproductions.com
04-13-2008 03:42 PM
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
rbort
Elite Veteran
Location: Franklin, MA - U.S.A.

Generator

Aren't you using a generator anyways? I thought you guys implemented my idea on your machines. Even if the switch went off, the generator would still run the heli fine for all flight maneuvers with no issues so the switch turning off in flight will have no effect unless the motor quits.

Chances are if it pirouetted around like that either the futaba tail servo went bad or you lost tail rotor rpms. A quick throttle hold followed by a down around to right aileron cyclic would have flipped it upright and then you just have to auto it down spinning but if high enough and you were quick on the throttle hold it will stop spinning sooner and you can land normally.

I'm sorry about your mishap and I know I'm telling you in hindsight what you should do in this situation but I'm only doing it as a learning thing so hopefully something good will come out of it down the road. I tell this to people: learn to fly around while pirouetting -- in other words control it and send it in any direction while constantly going around. It may not be a super impressive maneuver but if you know this it will highly assist you in keeping it level and bringing it to the field during a tail failure emergency.

Hope you get it back in the air soon.

-=>Raja.

1005 Xcell Gas, BHH G26 3D Plus, Jewel Generator
Spectra-g, BHH G26 3D Plus, Jewel Generator
04-13-2008 04:40 PM
 
 
AceBird
Elite Veteran
Location: Utica, NY USA

Is this another JR switch failure?

Why would a crash turn off a switch? It shouldn't.

Ace
What could be more fun?
04-13-2008 05:19 PM
 
 
oysifly
Senior Heliman
Location: Bentonville, AR

I've seen plenty of times in Crashes (planes too) that the switch is off when it hits. I always face my switch to the on position forward so if I have a bad or hard auto....the switch can't move forward to the off position.

Quick...here comes my wife....hide that new Heli !!!!
04-13-2008 05:30 PM
 
 
xcellgasman101
Elite Veteran
Location: WOODWARD, OKLA....

Quote 
Is this another JR switch failure?

Why would a crash turn off a switch? It shouldn't.
Well with your one crash there allmighty,, And all the wisdom you have.. How could this happed???

Yes if you hit hard enought IT can turn it off. It has happened to me before,,, But Yes,, the switch could be bad,, does it work now?? How does it feel?? Is it easy to move back and forth??? XGM/VGM

John Crotts
www.soonerhelicamproductions.com
04-13-2008 06:19 PM
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
rbort
Elite Veteran
Location: Franklin, MA - U.S.A.

You guys all hung up on the switch

But look at the man's signature..."RH generator". Why does the switch position even matter? Am I missing something? Guess we'll all have to wait for Shiro to enlighten us!

-=>Raja.

1005 Xcell Gas, BHH G26 3D Plus, Jewel Generator
Spectra-g, BHH G26 3D Plus, Jewel Generator
04-13-2008 06:55 PM
 
 
dazzaster
Veteran
Location: right next door to hell

could just be low battery.
i had it once with an vario acrobat i charged it fully flew it for five minuted then a couple days later took it of the shelf and went out and flew without charging the flight pack up. about 15 min into flight the tail went loose on me and then it came back into my control as i was brining it in the tail went totally. i hit throttle cut but it was still prioueting when it hit the ground luckily despite it pirouteing i managed to land on the skids and level the heli did end up onits side with no damage. at first i thought it was to do with the tail slider and bridge as the ball links had popped off but later i done some ground test, i found that if i partially charge a battery and turn on the heli you can move all control surfaces and keep on working the sticks untill the battery really starts to drain the gyro is the first thing to stop working about a minute after this the servos on the head stop.
my conclusion to my incident was that the gyro gave me a little warning (also a 401) when the tail went loose which means if it ever happens again with any heli i will just put it down quickly . needless toi say i now always ensure i fly on a fully charged battery

I have a load of spots... two of which are white heads
04-13-2008 07:27 PM
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
BeltFedBrowning
Senior Heliman
Location: Albany, MO USA

I also have Raja's generator and the first thing I did was to turn off the switch with the motor running and the main gear removed for safety. The electronics functioned perfectly on just the generator.
04-13-2008 09:00 PM
 
 
Shiro Muji
Senior Heliman
Location: Japan

Thanks guys for the info. it could not be a switch failure Raja is right I have an RH Generator and it works even without a battery. Maybe it could be the rudder servo because before that incident I had already a pirouette but a little bit slower and landed it down safely, and I checked my servo and it is hot, check the linkages and its a little hard to push. upon checking the tailrotor shaft and slider got a lot of gum maybe because of the silicon lubricant I used. after fixing that I flew again and it flies well, after another tank, I pirouette the heli for three consecutive times and flies inverted hover and suddenly it lose control of the tail. I throttle hold it but still pirouetting and the heli landed sideways idling. so, the heli has still some control right? I just don't manage to recover from the inverted hover.

Maxum with Hanson 3D Max, Maxum Nitro, Maxum 30.5cc modified engine, RH Generator, Sceadu .50Hyper
04-14-2008 12:39 AM
 
 
Shiro Muji
Senior Heliman
Location: Japan

or it could be the 401gyro cannot handle consecutive pirouetting maneuver? what you think guys?

Maxum with Hanson 3D Max, Maxum Nitro, Maxum 30.5cc modified engine, RH Generator, Sceadu .50Hyper
04-14-2008 12:41 AM
 
 
BeltFedBrowning
Senior Heliman
Location: Albany, MO USA

Check out this movie and thread. This guy runs a 401 for 3D. http://www.runryder.com/helicopter/t402543p1/

I think the 401 is a very capable gyro.
04-14-2008 12:47 AM
 
 
xcellgasman101
Elite Veteran
Location: WOODWARD, OKLA....

If your servo is hot,,then something is wrong,, either binding, or a bad servo,,, That's why I always check to see if it is hot,, Glad you checked it,, XGM/VGM

John Crotts
www.soonerhelicamproductions.com
04-14-2008 12:53 AM
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
Shiro Muji
Senior Heliman
Location: Japan

Hi beltfed: yes i will agree with you that the 401 is a good gyro, but will it make any difference it we put it in gasser? the heli doing 3d that are using 401gyro is a 50size nitro.

Xcell: probably the lesson learned here is that if your rudder servo overheated once you should not use it anymore because the consistency is reduced. what you think?

Maxum with Hanson 3D Max, Maxum Nitro, Maxum 30.5cc modified engine, RH Generator, Sceadu .50Hyper
04-14-2008 02:42 AM
 
 
FCM
Elite Veteran
Location: Back in Blighty!

Sounds like a cooked tail servo.

In my experience, the 401 and 9254 combination runs hot. This is flying gentle AP/AV not 3D. The 9254 is a hot servo compared to the old 9253 as it produces more torque. More torque = more current draw = more heat. The 401 gyro makes all of the tail servos I have tried run a lot hotter than my CSM gyro.

If you want a good tails set up I can recommend the SL720 with the Futaba BSL-251.

Paul.
04-14-2008 03:25 AM
 
 
turbogti
Veteran
Location: St. Andrew, Jamaica

Sounds like the tail control rod popped off ?
Either from the tail or from the servo, or was the tail servo arm screw locktite onto the servo?

Sometimes they can come loose and cause the servo arm to loosen up as well loosing control.

I mean i'm a newbie at flying but hey these things happen.

****Predator Gasser SE - She's Ready to rumble ***
04-14-2008 03:42 AM
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
xcellgasman101
Elite Veteran
Location: WOODWARD, OKLA....

Quote 
Xcell: probably the lesson learned here is that if your rudder servo overheated once you should not use it anymore because the consistency is reduced. what you think?

Yes,, I would replace the servo and try to find out what is causeing your binding of your tail rotor control rod,, It needs to be nice and smooth,, I used to use a 401/9254 on my gasser doing 3D with no problems,, but I do now use the 601/9251 XGM/VGM

John Crotts
www.soonerhelicamproductions.com
04-14-2008 04:00 AM
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
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Gasser Model RC Helicopters > Crashed my gasser today!
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