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Aerial Photography and Video > My XSI has Shipped!

vrwired
Senior Heliman
Location: Boulder County, CO

OK.. prelim findings show that the XSI has within the Custom Menu a section for Auto Focusing While in Live View Mode (Live view does not work in full auto mode or any preset like Sports or Landscape) at least not that I could find.

In the manual modes Live view works..
Now under the Custom setting to enable AF while in Live view there are 3 settings:

Live View Settings:

1. DISABLE
2. QUICK MODE
3. LIVE MODE

There it is LIVE MODE... but from what I see so far from testing is that the camera will NOT auto focus in live view by pressing the shutter button alone (which is what I was hoping). Neither halfway or a full press

To auto focus while in live mode you must press the af button.. the difference "Live Mode" makes is that it does not drop the mirror while pressing the AF button.. the live view screen stays visible the whole time. The camera dials in the focus using a Contrast Focus Technology.

Now.. the "Quick Mode" is also executed by pressing the AF button to autofocus except that it drops the mirror and the Live View image disappears for a second or so.. just like on the 40D.

This is not what I wanted to find out

Although it is nice to be able to manually press the AF button in LIVE MODE and not have the live view image disppear for a moment. This will NOT work while in the air shooting! The auto focus is.. well.. manual auto focus.. And I mean Manually EXECUTED Auto Focus.. No Bueno..

So regardless.. yes, All you XTI owners out there.. The XSI has to shoot in Infinity .. just like your camera.. So.. no need to run to your nearest store and pick up the XSI.... Unless you are a megapixel hound and want the 12.2 MP and are dying for Digic III and want to feel like you are using a point and shoot with the Live View. Heh!

Another thing I noticed is the Live Mode Auto Focus using contrast does not work as well as the old drop the mirror and focus procedure.

It works OK, but I found it to be a little off sometimes (not all the time) even when it says it has a "Lock". I would not trust it as much as the "Quick mode" the quick mode (mirror drop) focused dead on all the time.. So if I was shooting in manual mode and wanted to auto focus, I would still use the Quick Mode (mirror drop)... Much more precision than the Contrast "Live Mode". And Who cares if the Live View image cuts out for a moment? At least I know the picture is in focus. To tell you the truth.. I think the Contrast Live Mode is one step closer to Canon turning the DSLR into a point and shoot. It's a gimmick... just my opinion.. you can slam me if you want (ducking).

well,
It is a great camera overall though from what I have seen so far... The kit IS lens is decent.. for the price. I will say the camera is light... I made the right choice picking the XSI over the 40D when it comes to weight.

I am sure this thing will take some stunning photos from the air.. I can't wait.

I will report any new findings if I come across them.

So as Buzz Light Year says "Infinity And Beyond!"

Good Night..

JR GSR260 - Mark IV Cam Mount
Trex 600NSP
Trex 600E
Trex 450SE
Hornet X3D

04-17-2008 05:40 AM

FLAP
Key Veteran
Location: Michigan

VRwired,

Quote
I would still use the Quick Mode (mirror drop)... Much more precision than the Contrast "Live Mode". And Who cares if the Live View image cuts out for a moment?

How much time elapses from time you trigger shutter, it drops mirror and snaps photo? Less than a second? A couple of seconds?

And, have you got some aerial photo feedback for us?

04-25-2008 03:18 PM

CKY
Veteran
Location: Sunshine Coast, BC, Canada

How important is any type of "live focus", really?

If the cam is set for any reasonable focal length, and it stays there, isn't that good enough. The live view is for framing, not checking focus. In AF mode the pictures taken are going to be in focus, with the live view's resolution it is doubtful you would notice any problem anyway.

A live view option will really help eliminating the CCD/TTL setup.

If your camera is having any trouble focusing, what are you going to do about it when its in the air, regardless of what camera system you are using??

Chris

04-25-2008 03:56 PM

HOMEPAGE

FLAP
Key Veteran
Location: Michigan

CKY,
might be personal preference as some folks don't use auto focus and some do. For most aerial photography, you can get by by simple setting focus near infinity, due to distance most photos are taken. I use auto focus simply because that is how I started, I know it works very well on my setup. I had to reshoot one job early one because I set to infinity using manual focus...went back to autofocus simply because it was no effort required. Had I 'needed to' I suppose I could have worked through the issue as many others apparently have.
I would agree that if live view is a priority, one can work around any autofocus problems that 'live view' creates.

However, having established I'm a bit lazy on working through issues

, I'd like to know if the 'blanking' out is only for a second or so. It the duration is relatively short, I am thinking I can align the shot, release shutter, and live with a short blank out whilst still expending minimal effort.

04-25-2008 04:09 PM

vrwired
Senior Heliman
Location: Boulder County, CO

FLAP..
The mirror drop is relatively fast...
I only use LIVE VIEW for framing. LIVE VIEW only works in the "Creative Modes", eg TV,AP,P,A-Dep. I was hoping it would work in the auto modes, but not a big deal.

To have "shutter button" AF with the XSI, you would have to use a ccd on the viewfinder.

I use LIVE VIEW video out for the convenience, but because of that I can only use infinity focus..

I may some day get a ccd for the viewfinder and use it if I ever find myself needing AF in the air.

While in live view you can AF, but you have to manually press the AF button.. (no good in the air, although I have thought about putting a servo on the AF button!) Could really be doable. With a servo I could have LIVE VIEW Auto Focus in the air.

In the settings you can choose the option for the Live View AF button, "Quick mode" (mirror drop, barely a second, pretty fast) or LIVE MODE, which focuses while you hold the AF button down without dropping the mirror... I find the mirror drop much more precise as stated in my original post. Remember, in LIVE VIEW, you have to press the AF button for any kind of auto focus.

In the creative modes, once you set it to LIVE VIEW, you cannot focus with the shutter button alone (half press) you have to do that first, then switch to live view to frame and use the AF button if you need, and shoot while on the ground.. in the air you are always in LIVE VIEW, so you have to set infinity.. unless you put a servo on the AF Button.

hope that helps

JR GSR260 - Mark IV Cam Mount
Trex 600NSP
Trex 600E
Trex 450SE
Hornet X3D

04-25-2008 05:29 PM

meflyjeep
Senior Heliman
Location: On the ground and in the air ...

Quote
I think liveview is a waste of time. I have it on my 40D & never used it, can't really see a use for it unless your blind! Just another gimmic not needed...what's next mp3 & video? then I will leave canon.

Mac ... au contraire ... for me as well. I have to spend extra $ to get liveview management software for D300, add another cheapie cameria for composing, or add a Ziegview for D200 / D1. I like that Cannon feature ... finally Nikon has added it. I should have stayed with Cannon but now have the investment in Nikon optics ...

meflyjeep

04-25-2008 07:43 PM

macsgrafs
Senior Heliman
Location: Barnstaple, Devon, UK

Quote
Ross, Why do you think it is useless? Does it not replace the need to wire a CCD camera to the viewfinder? Darin

Use the video output socket. The only thing liveview is uselful for is changing W/B. But if your happy with it, then go for it...just try using it on an F2.8 600mm lens

Ross

Seems to me that ALL heli's beat the air into submission

04-26-2008 04:37 PM

HOMEPAGE

vrwired
Senior Heliman
Location: Boulder County, CO

Update.. Thought I would post an image I took today with the XSI, Live View Video out in Infinity Focus, TV 1/500 Iso 200

I taped the Focus, cause it will creep.. also put a rubber band around the zoom to keep it in place.

My Neighborhood.. not my house..
Also, not very high...

But came out pretty nice.

JR GSR260 - Mark IV Cam Mount
Trex 600NSP
Trex 600E
Trex 450SE
Hornet X3D

05-05-2008 01:53 AM

Hogster
Key Veteran
Location: Surrey, UK

Beauitful!! Can you post a link to the full-size image as it came off the camera?

Cheers

David

05-05-2008 01:57 AM

HOMEPAGE

vrwired
Senior Heliman
Location: Boulder County, CO

Sure Hogster..
Here it is straight off the camera.. jpg about 5MB, was never raw..
This is also with the 18-55 kit lens... a little soft, still trying to dial in Infinity Focus.. but def workable...

http://www.paperflame.com/aerial/IMG_0450.JPG

JR GSR260 - Mark IV Cam Mount
Trex 600NSP
Trex 600E
Trex 450SE
Hornet X3D

05-05-2008 02:30 AM

Hogster
Key Veteran
Location: Surrey, UK

Looking good! Particularly for manual focus and the kit lens

You should consider investing in the Canon 10-22mm lens .... I've heard of quite a few people using it for AP with cropped-sensor cameras ... I certainly love mine for ground work!

Cheers,

David

05-05-2008 02:37 AM

HOMEPAGE

vrwired
Senior Heliman
Location: Boulder County, CO

Yeah.. the kit lens aint so hot, but gets the job done.. I am going to get a 10-22, just have not gotten around to it yet. For 100 bucks extra with the body, the kit lens is a deal though.

Yeah.. getting the infinity focus spot on can be tough.. I just auto focus far away, then put the switch on manual and then tape the focus ring.. I was thinking about putting a servo on the AF button sometime to have AF in the air.. just need to rig it up.

At 100% 12.2 MP resolution, most the pics I've seen even from other lenses are a little soft.. even in auto focus.. They scale down great and look better with a little post processing of course!

I have looked at sample images of the XSI online and they even seem a bit soft at full resolution..

Matt

JR GSR260 - Mark IV Cam Mount
Trex 600NSP
Trex 600E
Trex 450SE
Hornet X3D

05-05-2008 02:45 AM

FLAP
Key Veteran
Location: Michigan

did you use the 'live view' to downlink and compose the photo?

05-05-2008 03:36 AM

vrwired
Senior Heliman
Location: Boulder County, CO

Yeah Flap.... Live View video out was used.... I had a camera operator.

JR GSR260 - Mark IV Cam Mount
Trex 600NSP
Trex 600E
Trex 450SE
Hornet X3D

05-05-2008 03:44 AM

tabbytabb
Elite Veteran
Location: seattle

Looks great!

I downloaded the full size JPG and was really impressed with the dynamic range. There were very few clipped highlights and it was a pretty bright scene.

Did you have the exposure compensation set to a negative value at all? If not it seems the metering on this rebel is a bit better then my older ones.

Also I couldnt resist a bit of retouching while I had it open in PS

I went to school my Freshman year at CU boulder and sure miss the mountains

Hope you don't mind

Tabb

05-05-2008 05:19 AM

HOMEPAGE

borneobear
Senior Heliman
Location: Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia.

Sweet.
Other than the 'softness' of the pictures, any regrets getting this Cam for AP?

Live view - actually, I'm just dying to push the 'buy' button.

05-05-2008 09:46 AM

vrwired
Senior Heliman
Location: Boulder County, CO

Quote
Other than the 'softness' of the pictures, any regrets getting this Cam for AP?

No. No regrets... I would have gotten a 40D, But the specs of the XSI are pretty sweet.. and for AP the weight savings is great over the 40D. Great cam.. 12.2MP is great. It gives you a lot of room for cropping and horizon straightening etc.

I just wish it would autofocus in live view with just the shutter button.. Also.. from what I see, while in the "creative modes", those modes will AF with the shutter button, but not while in live view. You have to leave live view, then do the "half press" then switch to live view (useless in the air). Or while in live view, press the AF* button (impossible in the air, unless a servo is hooked to the AF* button on the back of the cam, Which I may do if I can figure out an open channel)

If you use a ccd on the viewfinder, then you could just shoot in Automode and not worry about infinity settings. With a ccd you could also still shoot in the "creative modes" and have the shutter button AF because you would not be in live view, so the shutter button half press focus would work. One reason to use a ccd instead of the Live View video out.

I have the gentled focus switch which works great.. I do not use the focus part of the switch because its useless for now.. I am wondering if it would be possible to route the focus part of the gentled wires to the AF* button so that it would activate a servo to press the AF* button then activate the shutter... that would be ideal.. I just dont know if I can get the Gentled focus wires to do that.. I believe they share the same pole that the gentled shutter switch uses.. when the gentled works it activates the focus (if available, while in live view it's not), then the shutter. Hmm.. If anyone knows if that is possible please let me know..

----------------------

Also a note to Tabb.. no I did not have any neg- exposure compensation set. I like how you brought out the mountains a bit. What did you do to the sky?.. did you add some saturation to the blue? You think I should try to shoot at a faster shutter rate?

I did try 1/640 once.. did not notice any difference compared the 1/500.

JR GSR260 - Mark IV Cam Mount
Trex 600NSP
Trex 600E
Trex 450SE
Hornet X3D

05-05-2008 04:19 PM

borneobear
Senior Heliman
Location: Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia.

Thanks for the feedback vrwired. Much appreciated.
12.2 MP is indeed sweet. Part of the reason this Cam is so tempting.
But I wonder why Canon didn't wire the autofocus to the live view? It just doesn't make sense.

05-06-2008 02:38 AM

CKY
Veteran
Location: Sunshine Coast, BC, Canada

Spent more time with the new XSi. The short comings of the live view is minimal. Really just turns your camera into manual focus mode, once live view is set, the focus will never change.

Just have to remember to have the sleep modes disabled as the live mode gets cancelled on wakeup.

Having a good clear image with camera data FAR outweighs the hassle of a separate CCD camera setup TTL.

The kit lens is a bear to set focus manually. Do yourself a favour and get some decent glass.

12mega pixals, light, live view, with a simple shutter release, add on some decent glass, seems like a no brainer to me??

05-10-2008 09:05 AM

HOMEPAGE

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