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Aerobatic 3D Contest > Inverted Autorotation - With a Raptor 30 and Woodies.
 
 
groundeffect
Key Veteran
Location: Newfoundland Canada

My setup:
Raptor 30-Woodies-Gy401/9253
No driven tail ( yet )
-9, 0, 9

I recently did my first (unplanned )autorotation as explained here:
http://runryder.com/showtopic.htm?topicid=41984

As mentioned it was unplanned....
So now I would like to know the best way to accomplish them.

In the pasted link above I explained how my rappy dead sticked due to worn fuel tubbing.. anyways.. .I was inverted, I went full positive for a while, then to 0, rolled it over ( right ) and then full negative, then flared.... I came out without any damage.

So, a combination of luck and reflex from sim time has done me well so far.


So, what is the best way to do an inverted autorotation with a raptor 30 and stock woodies???


How high should I start?
How long can my inverted segment be with this setup?

What about the roll, anything to watch for in particular?




Thanks in advance for replies.
Dean

A Vision From Higher Up
04-01-2003 Over year old.
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
Darren Bradley
Veteran
Location: UK

Not tried these yet , but I would say if you landed it without a scratch then you cant be far wrong
04-01-2003 Over year old.
 
 
groundeffect
Key Veteran
Location: Newfoundland Canada

what I am worried about is the roll, I am worried about the tail not holding and swinging all over the place. Although it did seem pretty solid in the roll over from inverted durring the dead stick.


Maybe when I go to a driven tail with the PV0379 on my rappy, but then there is a worry of losse of head speed....

I think I just need to try it, but I am not sure I am ready yet...... Maybe I should work on spot landings first?!




Dean

A Vision From Higher Up
04-01-2003 Over year old.
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RappyTappy
Elite Veteran
Location: Las Vegas, NV

To tell you the truth, inverted auto's aren't all that hard. They mess with your mind more because if you mess up and stall the blades, things get real bad real fast.

Anyways, on a autorotation roll, pitch the nose up just before your roll. This will introduce the rotor disk to more air and give you a little more headpseed before you roll. As you roll, move your collective just as you would with the power on, except reversed since you are autoing.

Congrats on your save.

Chris
Xero G

Forever Brothers
Mickey Tylo
04-01-2003 Over year old.
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groundeffect
Key Veteran
Location: Newfoundland Canada

how high?

RappyTappy: So pitch up the nose a little... ok thanks for the tip.

So, how high to you recommend doing these from and where should you roll too upright? I guess starting out, _real_ high, and rolling out when you know you can get the head speed back up if you mess up.?!


Any more pointerS?
Dean

A Vision From Higher Up
04-01-2003 Over year old.
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
noname
Veteran
Location: .

Quote 
How high should I start?


You should start high enough so that you can get your blades spinning fast enough ... remember, the higher head-speed equals faster roll/flip rate !

Quote 
How long can my inverted segment be with this setup?


That basically depends on the head-speed you accumulate ... I have done inverted autos where I start up 250 feet up high and drop inverted all the way down to 15' and then flip the heli over and land ...

Quote 
What about the roll, anything to watch for in particular?


Unless it's a real flame-out, when you flip the heli over if you see the blades spinning very slowly and you don't have enough altitude, fire the engine back up ...

Again, good timing and head-speed are basically all you need for this maneuver
04-03-2003 Over year old.
 
 
RappyTappy
Elite Veteran
Location: Las Vegas, NV

Quote 
That basically depends on the head-speed you accumulate ... I have done inverted autos where I start up 250 feet up high and drop inverted all the way down to 15' and then flip the heli over and land ...


I think you meant to say this......................

That basically depends on the head-speed you accumulate ... I have done inverted autos where I start up 2500 feet up high and drop inverted all the way down to 150' and then flip the heli over and land ...


HAHAHA, just kidding bro



Chris
Xero G

Forever Brothers
Mickey Tylo
04-05-2003 Over year old.
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
Mr_Magoo
Veteran
Location: Reality & Nevada

I learned to do rolling autos with an R30 and stock woodies. You want to keep good forward speed during the auto anyway, so the tail won't be a problem. If you do your 2nd 1/2 roll at about 50-75ft, you can do a mini-flare to build the head speed back up. By mini-flare I mean don't kill all of your forward speed. Make sure you enter the rolls with some forward speed or it can get ugly very fast if you try to do 1/2 roll while dropping vertical (unless it's windy).

Magoo
04-05-2003 Over year old.
 
 
groundeffect
Key Veteran
Location: Newfoundland Canada

thanks for the input.

I will keep these things in mind when/if I ever get to the point of trying them unplanned.... some time between now and then I guess.


Dean

A Vision From Higher Up
04-07-2003 Over year old.
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Harts
Senior Heliman
Location: Victoria, Australia

Same thing

I was flying my raptor 30 v1 doing some very tame aerobatics, I decided to stop inverted during a flip and climb out inverted only to realsie I was in Idel up 1 not 2 and Idel up 1 is not setup well due to the fact I dont use it much. Anyway Ioaded up the motor and it stalled so I was froced into a inverted auto and thanks to the sim all went well, I think its all in the pitch timming so you dont loose to much head speed.
Tell me how you get on, Im going to try a few more with the same combo.
Good luck
04-18-2003 Over year old.
 
 
groundeffect
Key Veteran
Location: Newfoundland Canada

Harts: I haven't done anymore inverted autos, I have just been working on some invert hovering at of late but I think I will try some again with in the next short period of time.

Dean

A Vision From Higher Up
04-20-2003 Over year old.
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groundeffect
Key Veteran
Location: Newfoundland Canada

PS....

Harts: Indeed, agreeed, its all in the timing off the collective of course, even in aero. maneuvers and such. I think its more noticable with 30's because of the power to weight ratio compared to the 50',60's. With a 30 your collective and power management is very critical, more so then a 50/60 I think.

Dean

A Vision From Higher Up
04-20-2003 Over year old.
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
freestyle
Veteran
Location: Redmond WA USA

Without a driven tail, you're basically relying on weathervane effect to keep the nose forward, so it helps a lot to keep your forward speed up. And, as RappyTrappy suggested, pushing the nose up a little before rolling out is also very helpful... but just a little, not so much that you lose a lot of your forward speed.

I learned inverted autos using a Concept 30... it is a bit easier with a bigger rotor and a driven tail, but it's still very do-able with a non-driven-tail 30.
04-21-2003 Over year old.
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
groundeffect
Key Veteran
Location: Newfoundland Canada

freestyle/nate: Thanks for the input.

I think I will install my raptor's driven tail before trying some....

Dean

A Vision From Higher Up
04-22-2003 Over year old.
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
groundeffect
Key Veteran
Location: Newfoundland Canada

Bail Out Maneuver!?

Just trying to think of a good bail out maneuver if something goes wrong while trying inverted autos.

The only thing I can come up with is to roll out asap and flip the switch back.

Obviously start tyring with a few hundred feet maybe rolling out at about two hundred feet.?!


Comments?

Dean

A Vision From Higher Up
04-22-2003 Over year old.
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
mnewhook
Senior Heliman
Location: Newfoundland, Canada

Quote 
Just trying to think of a good bail out maneuver if something goes wrong while trying inverted autos.


I'd suggest closing your eyes, and plugging your ears. That works for me.

Matthew
04-23-2003 Over year old.
 
 
groundeffect
Key Veteran
Location: Newfoundland Canada

mnewhook: Well, I think you will have your eyes plugged... your going to be wearing those crazy industrial eye muffs when running your rappy with that pipe right now?!


I guess starting high for will help obviously, just keeping a good judge of the ground relative to the heli and being prepared to roll quickly....

Dean

A Vision From Higher Up
04-23-2003 Over year old.
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
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Aerobatic 3D Contest > Inverted Autorotation - With a Raptor 30 and Woodies.
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