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HeliProz . ZoomsHobbies . HeliHobby

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Aerobatic FAI F3C Contest > F3C and Flybarless
 
 
fergus
Veteran
Location: Ireland

Just wondering if there are any moves afoot to change F3C rules to allow for flybarless helicopters.

Anyone any thoughts on this?

Regards

Fergus

If you see a smoke trail from my heli get an extinguisher EPOWER
04-08-2008 07:47 PM
 
 
pchristy
Senior Heliman
Location: Nr London, England

I sincerely hope they don't!

This is meant to be about PILOT ability, not how good a computer you can install!

I'd like to see them ban ALL gyros, so you REALLY had to fly the thing!

;-)

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Pete
04-08-2008 08:11 PM
 
 
ErichF
Key Veteran
Location: Odessa, FL 33556 (Tampa Area)

It would be interesting to see how they could enforce not having unfair advantage. You can set those flybarless systems up to damn near rock still, then flip a switch to instantly transform to high cyclic rate. Then you have systems with built in horizontal stabilization. That's sure not gonna fly.

I think it would have to be all or none in a class to have flybarless electronics.
04-08-2008 08:13 PM
 
 
fergus
Veteran
Location: Ireland

I thought that was the response I would get

Deep down I agree with both of you. I just love gadgets and electric gizmos though

I will just shoot back to the Flybarless section now with my tail between my legs ...lol

Regards

Fergus

If you see a smoke trail from my heli get an extinguisher EPOWER
04-08-2008 08:42 PM
 
 
RCHelicopterGuy
Senior Heliman
Location: Michigan

I don't know why flybarless stuff has become such a hot item anyway. To me, part (most?) of the enjoyment of helicopters is the fine-tuning of the machine itself. I get a lot of satisfaction from learning how to make stuff actually work well. To me, attaching some electronic gizmo to manage my rotor head just takes something out of the experience.

Quite honestly, part of my attraction to F3C is the "purist" aspect of it. Add-ons are kept to a minimum (relatively speaking). The day that the FAI starts including flybarless setups with all sorts of electronic stabilization in F3C is the day that I start losing interest in F3C.
04-08-2008 09:18 PM
 
 
pchristy
Senior Heliman
Location: Nr London, England

I wouldn't want anyone to think I'm against electronic flybarless systems. I just don't think F3C is the place for them! The Germans are pushing an F3N class that may, in future, be suitable for electronic stabilisation - and may well encourage improvements in such systems.

But lets keep one class where pure pilot ability is what counts!

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Pete
04-08-2008 10:47 PM
 
 
RCHelicopterGuy
Senior Heliman
Location: Michigan

Agreed wholeheartedly!
04-08-2008 11:38 PM
 
 
fergus
Veteran
Location: Ireland

Yes I do concede. Flybarless has its place but if it means adding electronics which will lessen the skill involved in flying the schedules then it detracts from what F3C is all about.

I am sure HH gyros caused the same issues a few years ago. As flybarless develops in the next few years it will be interesting to see if F3C will become more isolated within the hobby though.

I count four new systems coming to market in the next few months with many more to follow. I wonder if in the near future rigid rotor systems will become the norm for people starting out and also for the manufacturers. Of course that wont effect those already involved but may put possible new partisipants off.

I really enjoy watching the big precise aerobatic manouvers and the exact hovering involved in F3C and was interested to hear what those involved thought of the way RC Helicopters seem to be going in the future. Interesting times ahead I guess.

Regards

Fergus

If you see a smoke trail from my heli get an extinguisher EPOWER
04-09-2008 12:03 AM
 
 
RCHelicopterGuy
Senior Heliman
Location: Michigan

Quote 
As flybarless develops in the next few years it will be interesting to see if F3C will become more isolated within the hobby though.

Maybe I'm in the minority, but I've never considered mainstream acceptance to be a worthwhile goal for much of anything. You'll never find a book called "Great Lemmings In American History".
04-09-2008 12:06 AM
 
 
ErichF
Key Veteran
Location: Odessa, FL 33556 (Tampa Area)

I think flybarless systems have a long ways to go before becoming mainstream.

1. The electronics are very expensive. Until systems can be consolidated and miniaturized at a reasonable cost, most people will not bother.

2. Reliability factors. Flybarless systems create yet another break in the receiver to servo connection, which is an added failure point. This not only includes the extra electrical connection, but the electronics of the system itself. Read all the issues, both user and manufacturer created, with the current crop of stabilizer systems (ie, AP2000i, Helicommand, etc). You can't beat the reliability of mechanics with electronics.

3. Complexity, of the other kind. Most people can assemble a flybar on a head and be successful. Many flybar systems have no or limited adjustability, and in most cases, can't get into too much trouble if not setup correctly. Most pilots don't need to know anything about the flybar for it to work correctly. Electronic, or virtual, flybars are just the opposite. Software setup programs are now required for use, asking pilots what ratios they want, how active vs stabile, etc, etc...Leaving a lot of room for error and steepening the learning curve for new pilots to setup. Nowadays, they have to learn various gyro setups, governors, mixture controls, etc. Now, we add the single most important flight control to the electronic mix, that will not suffer minor errors or confusion in setup.

So, IMO, flybarless machines may look better, in some ways perform better, etc...however they have a long way before we are setting up these systems right before we setup the gyro and governor.
04-09-2008 01:04 AM
 
 
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Aerobatic FAI F3C Contest > F3C and Flybarless
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