RunRyder - Carbsmart Sensor

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Radio - Servo - Gyro - Gov - Batt > Carbsmart Sensor

Bignose13
Senior Heliman
Location: Pontypridd

Does anybody have an explanation for why the sensor just dies on you?
I have had 2 so far and I know the last time I used my heli the light sensor was on but just checked the heli this evening and the sensor light is out again

I always take great care putting my helis away so I know no damage was done in that department,I took good care on both times to install the sensor on the engine correctly using the arctic thermal glue and all was fine when I flew her, but man this BUGS me BIG time.
Maybe CSM need to look at the sensor and substitute for a better and longer lasting sensor because the one's they give to you SUCK BIG TIME

Simon(AKA MR Fu#@ing Angry)

04-07-2008 07:52 PM

nivlek
Elite Veteran
Location: Norfolk England

Quote
Does anybody have an explanation for why the sensor just dies on you?

That's because it is a surface mount component that has been soldered between two pieces of wire ! It's not really a robust enough component for the job .

At the end of the day , it gets dark .

04-07-2008 07:59 PM

Bignose13
Senior Heliman
Location: Pontypridd

Crappy Carbsmart Sensor

So why dont CSM make steps to make a sensor that stands up to the job instead of selling crappy sensors that last a nano second or is it CSM's cunning plan to make a lot of money on something that's not suitable, hope your reading this Mr Mill's.

04-07-2008 08:04 PM

J2M
Senior Heliman
Location: UK

I have two of the pre-production CarbSmarts that came with the much more robust bead thermistor sensors. They are great and I would buy more Carbsmarts if CSM would only ditch the SM sensor

04-08-2008 11:23 AM

nappyroots2182
Key Veteran
Location: Moline, il

is there any other sensors we could try? im having the same problems of it breaking easy. i got about 5 flights out of my first one. if we took the shrink wrap off it and then glued it in wouldnt it hold up better as the glue would be all around the sensor instead of the shrink wrap?

DX7, Trex 600N, YS50, JR770 gyro, trex 500

04-08-2008 01:03 PM

nivlek
Elite Veteran
Location: Norfolk England

Quote
if we took the shrink wrap off it and then glued it in wouldnt it hold up better as the glue would be all around the sensor instead of the shrink wrap?

You would run the risk of shorting the sensor out across the cylinder head .

I've made up a couple of spare sensors (my father broke his sensor before even fitting it !), using the same type of thermistor as supplied . I have not used one yet , but if they fail , on the next one I will smear some thermal epoxy over the sensor and heat shrink it before the epoxy cures .

I did look at some different thermistors , but there physical size would make it difficult to fit between the cooling fins on an engine .

At the end of the day , it gets dark .

04-08-2008 03:50 PM

nappyroots2182
Key Veteran
Location: Moline, il

so should i cut off my shrink wrap and glue it together then re shrink wrap it before gluing in? im gonna get tired of pulling my motor out to keep replacing these.

DX7, Trex 600N, YS50, JR770 gyro, trex 500

04-08-2008 04:26 PM

nivlek
Elite Veteran
Location: Norfolk England

It is worth a try , just be carefull not to break the sensor taking the heatshrink off , use thermal epoxy and re-heatshrink it before the epoxy starts to cure ( you should have plenty of time ) .

At the end of the day , it gets dark .

04-08-2008 04:34 PM

cjthomas
Heliman
Location: Dearborn Hts, MI

sensors

Hey Bignose13, same story here, I got one short test hover out of mine. The sensor is of bad design and is the fault of CSM, not us. I buy sensors for work and if they fail I get a new one for free under warranty. Now I understand they can't warranty impact damaged sensors, but they have to know they have a quality control problem.
Why arn't we getting replacement sensors under warranty?

04-09-2008 11:26 AM

nappyroots2182
Key Veteran
Location: Moline, il

i tried to take my bad sensor out last night and had to grind it out. it was glued so good that you wouldnt know it was a sensor anyway. all i can say is go email CSM like me and see if we can get something done about this

DX7, Trex 600N, YS50, JR770 gyro, trex 500

04-09-2008 01:09 PM

Bignose13
Senior Heliman
Location: Pontypridd

A copy of the email which I sent to CSM Lets hope they reply

Hi
I have started a thread on RunRyder and Helifreak about the sensor that comes with the carbsmart and would like your views on the matter.
I have now bought 3 sensor's for the carbsmart in 3 weeks and at £5 a time it does not look for a quality product which yourselves manufacture. £5 a week = £260 a year!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Please could you comment on this matter and enlighten why you give and inferior sensor for what is and excellent product.
I for one can't recommend this product highly enough but am a little reluctant when you supply this sensor
Thanks
Simon Codd

http://www.runryder.com/helicopter/t422751p1/

http://www.helifreak.com/showthread.php?t=69037

http://www.runryder.com/helicopter/t422932p1/

04-09-2008 02:56 PM

nappyroots2182
Key Veteran
Location: Moline, il

heres the email i recieved from them today. they are blaming us. when the sensor breaks i have on now im done. these things are going to cost a alot.

Dear Jeff,

The sensors have been improved since the original ones, but we're not sure what else we can do. We put on more heatshrink now, but there is limited space so we can't do much more. We recommend you cover the whole of the heatshrink area with glue - this gives good thermal contact and stops vibration against the fins. Also, support the wire from the sensor as this can weaken if vibrated, and don't bend the heatshrink area.

Our problem is that neither we nor all but one of our test pilots, have not managed to break a sensor! The test pilot that breaks sensors has gone through 3 or 4. So it must be individual engines/installations that cause the problem.

But we'll continue to try!

best regards,

Wendy

DX7, Trex 600N, YS50, JR770 gyro, trex 500

04-09-2008 04:25 PM

Rui_JC
Veteran
Location: Portugal

I think that CSM should explore the market for more sensors.

IMHO this thermistor is not the best idea.

The market offers many other temperature sensors and in many diferent packages.

For the carbsmart in particular it is not necessary a sensor that can go over 150ºC.

.

Keep it up...literally

04-10-2008 12:19 PM

GMPheli
Veteran
Location: W. Bridgewater, MA USA

Quote
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

if we took the shrink wrap off it and then glued it in wouldnt it hold up better as the glue would be all around the sensor instead of the shrink wrap?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

You would run the risk of shorting the sensor out across the cylinder head

If you have an anodized head as on the hyper you could do this as anodizing is non electrically conductive. You would however have to use a non electrically conductive thermal adhesive such as Arctic Alumina. This is what I am going to try

04-10-2008 09:36 PM

nivlek
Elite Veteran
Location: Norfolk England

Quote
If you have an anodized head as on the hyper you could do this as anodizing is non electrically conductive.

I think that you will find that it has a high electrical resistance , but it's not necassarily non-conductive , and the thermistor is 100K so any conductivity would upset things .

At the end of the day , it gets dark .

04-10-2008 09:45 PM

GMPheli
Veteran
Location: W. Bridgewater, MA USA

Me thinks you need to get out your meter and check for yourself!!!

04-10-2008 10:25 PM

sorensen
Heliman
Location: Norway

Hi.

My CrapSmart sensor lasted 9 flights before it died today.
It was installed very carefully with plenty of RTV silicone.

I have now removed the shrink wrap insulation and inspected the thermistor.
It seems like CSM has used a little epoxy around the thermistor/wires to make it more durable.
I can not see any cracks or damage to the epoxy or the thermistor so I wonder why it doesn't work anymore.
I have also used a Digital Multi Meter to try to measure any OHM or any conductivity but I can not get a reading, so either the thermistor is dead or the soldering is loose but the epoxy should keep it together.
Can it be that the thermistor isn't happy about all the sharp vibrations from a 2 stroke engine?

Does anyone know of a more durable thermistor with the same specs?

It's really sad that if the customers gets the blame

04-10-2008 11:24 PM

ESWLFSE
Elite Veteran
Location: Terra Ceia, FL USA

I had many flights on mine in my R50 Hyper with no problems and JB Weld completely enveloping the sensor and making it one with the head. Maybe some of you are using less adhesive and the sensor can vibrate independently of the head??

I used pieces of shrink tubing to make the "dam" to hold the JB weld around the sensor on either side between the fins and until it cured.

Unfortunately that sensor went down the road with the Hyper and I need another for my TT53. Where is the best place to buy one with reasonable shipping for 1 little item?

04-11-2008 12:47 AM

dangtsi
Senior Heliman
Location: Hockley, Texas, Waller

I used Permatex Blue RTV silicone Item# 80022 6B. So far I have about twenty tanks of fuel with the original sensor. The RTV silicone may allow some movement due to engine temperature? I also wonder if the heat shrink tubing used for manufacturing the sensor may shrink even more when place next to a hot engine? This could create additional pressure on the sensor/wire connections? Just some other thoughts.

The only problem I have had is the CarbSmart temperature seems to be reading much higher temperature than my Flashpoint IR device and my finger on the back plate. With the engine running quite rich the CarbSmart goes to full rich until I chose the 130C setting. The Flashpoint IR device reads 180F to 195F on the head and I can hold my finger on the engine back plate. Not hot by any means with plenty of smoke. When I use the 130C setting the CS seems to work correctly with plenty of power throughout the whole tank. I am convinced it's a great idea. I only wish I could calibrate it.

04-11-2008 01:10 AM

GMPheli
Veteran
Location: W. Bridgewater, MA USA

dangtsi:
I believe this is because you used a non thermal adhesive and it is insulating the sensor

04-11-2008 01:45 AM

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Radio - Servo - Gyro - Gov - Batt > Carbsmart Sensor

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