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JR-Spektrum . Gyro Hobbies . E-flite

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Align T-REX 600N 700N > More EagleTree Data for CarbSmart
 
 
joeycoates
Senior Heliman
Location: Dallas, Texas

Hey LJS your right, I just did the math.
04-08-2008 02:23 AM
 
 
joeycoates
Senior Heliman
Location: Dallas, Texas

Well, I think that I finally have it right...

NOTE: When my temps are getting high in both graphs I am doing continuous tic-tocs or startionary rolls (with too much collective movement on purpose)for and extended length of time, 30 to 90 seconds. In other words I am really loading it up hard for extended periods of time and these long hard loads will probably not be very common in a regular flight.

Oh, the blue line is actually the CarbSmart adjusting the needle, the yellow line is the throttle in between the ATG and the throttle servo, and the brownisn line is the head temp.



In the first log I tried both the 120c setting and the 130c setting, it liked the 130c setting even though 130c would be way too hot if it really got there. The YS50 still had good smoke at all times, but I thought that it was a touch too lean so I opened it up about 4-5 clicks and did the next log. The gain is at 50% on this one.




Again it was set to 130c, but I overshot the needle to too rich so I have sense backed it down to in between the two, it will get hotter then the second log, but not as hot as the first. The gain is at 60% which I think is about right. Unfortunatly I could not test it out again as I got a little to brave on some piroetting autos and ate a set of front tail gears on a bad landing..

I have noticed a few things while doing the experamenting.

1. Even when set to 130c and really running leaner then I think was good (sounded pingy) the engine would not go above 200f when hovering in 80f temps while using the Align metal fan. Thats just as hot as it went while putting around so in my case at least using the CS or not I am going to get some temp deviations.

2. I could not run as lean as I am with the CS in the lean position if the CS were not on the helicopter. I am reativly confident that I would toast the engine seeing how hot it gets with the CS going to full rich which is over 1/4 turn. If I loaded it hard at the lean setting without the CS it would get HOT.

3. For me the 60% gain setting seems good, it went from full lean to full rich in 1.8 seconds at one point when the temps were rising fast which is a pretty quick transition.

4. I could have tuned the CS in without all of the datalogging by sound and smoke. My main reason to put the Eagletree equipment in was because I just could not believe that the preset temp ranges on the CarbSmart could be that far off, but in my case they are. Even before I added the equipment I was already up to the 120c setting and I did not think that that was hot enough, but I was afraid to go to the 130c setting as that is 266f. I thought that it sounded/looked like I needed to turn it up, but I was not sure if I could trust what I was seeing/hearing or not. Now the 130c setting WILL NOT WORK FOR EVERYONE!!! Other people are getting to where they need to be on the 110c or 120c settings, just because this worked for me does not mean it will work for others, it may be too hot of a setting if your CS temp gauge is reading more accuratly then mine is. Just read what your engine is doing at the different temp ranges and see if it looks happy. You should be able to see/hear it going too lean and be able to back out while setting it up if it is getting lean. Go slowly and start pushing it harder if it is doing well at the current temp before going to the next heat range. Once in the heat range push it harder a bit at a time.

In all the CS works, period. If I set my high speed needle to a setting that is as rich as it gets under a hard load then I would be spitting out raw fuel when hovering, conversly if I set it as lean as it is at the lean setting I would get a lean bog under load at best, and more then likely a siezed engine.

After all of that I like it.
04-09-2008 06:20 AM
 
 
lovespicyfood
Senior Heliman
Location: Westlake Village, CA- U.S.A.

joeycoates,

Thanks for doing all the hard work for me! I see you have an O.S. Hyper in your ship, but I perused your post and didn't see a mention of pipe or fuel that you're using, can you tell me?

I'm using an Align pipe and CoolPower 30% w/ my Hyper.

I'm still awaiting the return of my firmware upgraded Spektrum AR7000 to get my Pro back together. I have a super hectic schedule between work and school, so I really APPRECIATE your post and feedback in preparing for my CarbSmart install! I have a 2 week break from school after May 12th so I want to be flying and not tinkering too much.

I have the Arctic Silver thermal epoxy, but now I'm second guessing that. It seems that sometimes the sensors break and it would be nice to be able to take it out if using RTV silicone. I'm guessing you might have to buy a new head if you epoxied it in?!

Lastly, I've been contemplating an Eagletree, but haven't purchased yet... I guess I should get it because it isn't that expensive and I already have over $2K in this heli anyways. $60-$80 is probably good insurance esp. since I could use it across my fleet...

Thanks again for your help!

Pete

P.S. Even if I had the time to tinker a lot with this CarbSmart, I'm only a sport flier and couldn't do constant 3D to "max" out the sytem for testing purpses.
04-09-2008 05:08 PM
 
 
joeycoates
Senior Heliman
Location: Dallas, Texas

Ctually I am using the YS, but the method used to calibrate the CS will be the same. Just remember to start at a heat range and beging pushing it up throughout the flight while listening/looking for lean signs. Then try going to the next range. You will know pretty quick when you have gone too far and should be able to back out before damage.

Good luck!
04-09-2008 05:21 PM
 
 
lovespicyfood
Senior Heliman
Location: Westlake Village, CA- U.S.A.

Oops...sorry...I was looking at the sig of the topic starter, assuming it was you...

Thanks for the info, I appreciate it!

Pete
04-09-2008 05:27 PM
 
 
turboomni
Elite Veteran
Location: 63 Rambler Down By The Dumpster

Question for you guys. Setting up my CS on my Hyper 50 I found it stuck on full lean at the 100C setting. So I leaned out the needle in steps until I got the CS to start working. Landing after hauling on it a good bit I noticed the needle was at it's midpoint of travel, so I'm getting closer. What worries me is the leanest point is abit less than 1 turn out on the main and I don't think I'm in the target zone yet, never mind going to 110C. My finger backplate test confirmed it was not ever close to being hot. Is this cause for concern in anyway>? I always used to run 1 1/4 + with the finger method. Anyone running less than 1 turn on the main [lean point]?
Thanks

Setup is everything, All my heli's can fly better than I can pilot them
04-09-2008 07:40 PM
 
 
joeycoates
Senior Heliman
Location: Dallas, Texas

turboomni, I found on my YS50 that in order to get the temps to 200f (93c) when just hovering that I had to run it leaner (pingy) then I liked, so you may not be able to get up to 100c while just hovering. Don't worry about it, set it so that it is at a comfortable spot while hovering, maybe a bit leaner then your normal takeoff needle position would be, but not exesivly lean trying to get to a certain temp. The real beauty of the CS is that you could not run it hard in this condition, but when you do start to ramp it up it will go ridher for you and keep the engine happy.

Do not worry about the needle in the middle thing, like I said runing the Align metal fan on an 80 degree day I had to run my YS really lean to get to 93c so instead concentrate on a pretty lean "lean" setting and the CS will take over from there as it gets warm.

At least that is my suggestion!
04-10-2008 12:31 AM
 
 
tchavei
rrProfessor
Location: Portugal

You can't set the needle by hovering around. My YS never gets over 80C even on the leanest setting while hovering.

I said this many times before... trash it as hard as you can (if you can't then just pitch pumping up and down will give you some results) and then land as fast as possible and check the needle position. If its on the lean side, you're too rich, if its fully rich, you're too lean. The ideal is when it is at the center position and quickly moving to the lean position. Thats why you need to be quick on checking the position.

When you manage this, your needle is in the "ball park" and you should only work with gain to achieve "better" results.

Tony


--------------------
"Perfection and patience usually walk side by side..."
04-10-2008 12:35 AM
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
turboomni
Elite Veteran
Location: 63 Rambler Down By The Dumpster

Thanks Guys for the replies,,

Setup is everything, All my heli's can fly better than I can pilot them
04-10-2008 04:17 AM
 
 
turboomni
Elite Veteran
Location: 63 Rambler Down By The Dumpster

What temp do you guys run it at? 100C or 110C?

Setup is everything, All my heli's can fly better than I can pilot them
04-10-2008 04:46 AM
 
 
joeycoates
Senior Heliman
Location: Dallas, Texas

I am running at 130c, but my CS temp sensor does not read correctly, it is 48 degree's or so off from what I have seen. Just set it at one temp and start to feel it out and listen to see if your engine sounds happy or if it is going lean. You shouls be able to tell by the smoke as well.
04-10-2008 06:15 AM
 
 
turboomni
Elite Veteran
Location: 63 Rambler Down By The Dumpster

Will do joeycoates ,thanks again

Setup is everything, All my heli's can fly better than I can pilot them
04-10-2008 02:11 PM
 
 
shawn30
Senior Heliman
Location: Olympia, WA. United States

Can anybody tell me about where there needle is set at for an outside temp. that is around 60 degree. I'm using the CS on an Hyper 50 with the align pipe. I'm at about 80% gain right now. With a set temp. of 100C.

Thanks
Shawn

Shawn, Hot Start Helis
04-10-2008 07:41 PM
 
 
LJS
Veteran
Location: Minnesota, USA

Hi Shawn,

My lean setting is about 1 turn out for this time of year. But I'm running 110 C. Although my EagleTree tells me that I'm at 210 F (100 C).

Keep 'em flying.
LJS

600E, 1910 1Y, 8S FP4270, GY611
600N, OS50 Hyper, GY611
Logo 5003D, 600+, 6S TP 5000, DS760
04-11-2008 12:33 AM
 
 
turboomni
Elite Veteran
Location: 63 Rambler Down By The Dumpster

How does the 110C temp feel when using the finger method on the backplate? Warm or 5 seconds to burn etc? I'm abit worried as my lean setting at 100C is abit LESS than 1 turn out. The backplate is warm but I can hold it there for well over 5 seconds.

Setup is everything, All my heli's can fly better than I can pilot them
04-11-2008 03:51 AM
 
 
Sam2b
Key Veteran
Location: Seattle, WA - USA

You all have to remember there is no pre-set recipe that will work for everyone. One person's location may run best at 90C degrees. Another may run best at 110C degrees. You simply must adjust until optimum power is achieved unique that given day and location. Factors include ambient temperature, humidity, altitude, barometric pressure, etc, and can be different for each geographical location.

For me, I test my engine mixture for power output by doing tight tictoks and four-point tictoks. The engine will either die out or keep truck'n. After the engine is optimized for this one set of maneuvers, the power is ample throughout the flight with anything else I want to do. If you can't do these maneuvers, it makes sense to me to learn them. All I can say is: this method works well for me, and maybe you too.

Quote 
How does the 110C temp feel when using the finger method on the backplate?
110C degrees will start to burn my finger. But I know some people who are more tolerant of pain than I and the next person. So even that method is not dependable.

Adjust the temp/mixture according to the power in the sky.

_Sam B_
04-11-2008 04:03 AM
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
shawn30
Senior Heliman
Location: Olympia, WA. United States

Sam2b
Yes I know that there isn't a pre set recipe that works for everybody!!! But it will give me a starting point to try and idea as if I'm in the right area.

Thanks guys for the info. I'll try the 110C and play with the gain
this weekend and see what happens.

Shawn

Shawn, Hot Start Helis
04-11-2008 07:31 PM
 
 
pani
Senior Heliman
Location: Athens, Hellas

OK guys,

need some help. Sorry for intruding in the thread but I guess most of you have carbsmarts.
600N, Align Hyper, Align muffler, 20% CP, Multigov 1600 N 1900 IU1 1900 IU2.
I set the CS with servo in the middle at 1 and 1/4 open needle.
Max lean is 1 and a couple of clicks open and max rich is at 1 and a half turns open.
I set at 100 and hovered.

All well but the servo stays at full lean, tons of smoke.
IU and full climb out again servo full lean and stays there.
Tried 90 just in case, same thing.
Sensor is ok, servo is ok linkage is ok.
Tic tocs and auto down, backplate is cold I can get my finger there for ever. Head temp 85oC.

All points out that I'm too rich.
What do you think??

Thanks

Ignorance is bliss
04-12-2008 02:42 PM
 
 
LJS
Veteran
Location: Minnesota, USA

Hi Pani,

Yep. You're too rich. I'd lean it out about 1/6 turn and give it another try. I adjusted mine in the middle for hover and have had good luck flying mild 3D. My EagleTree tells me that it has never reached its limits at the 110 or 120 degree C settings. You can see my EagleTree flight data earlier in this thread.

Good luck to you.
LJS

600E, 1910 1Y, 8S FP4270, GY611
600N, OS50 Hyper, GY611
Logo 5003D, 600+, 6S TP 5000, DS760
04-12-2008 02:55 PM
 
 
pani
Senior Heliman
Location: Athens, Hellas

Hi LJS,

Thanks a lot for your reply. I just did what you proposed on the bench. Full lean is a 1 turn exactly now with half way 1 turn and 1/8 and full rich 1 and 3/8.
Will fly it later on today and I'll get back.

Thanks again

Ignorance is bliss
04-12-2008 03:20 PM
 
 
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Align T-REX 600N 700N > More EagleTree Data for CarbSmart
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