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Align T-REX 600N 700N > More EagleTree Data for CarbSmart
 
 
LJS
Veteran
Location: Minnesota, USA

Hi All,

Well, the weather finally broke here, and I got to put my CarbSmart to the test. I've got to tell you that I am VERY HAPPY with the setup. The engine sounds the same from the start of the tank until the end. And power is excellent throughout the flight.

I may try a hotter temperature next time as it still seems a hair rich. But the CarbSmart coupled with the Align governor is a nice combination. I'm running 2100 rpm.

I'm getting 8 minute flights with about 1.5 minutes left in the tank when I quit. The flights shown below are mild 3D. The engine could take anything I could throw at it. It never sounded lean or starved for fuel.

I had had trouble with this engine running rich at the start of the tank and very lean at the end of the tank last year. CarbSmart has really taken care of that problem.

Just so you know what you're looking at, the graph is of four flights at 52 degrees F ambient. I turned up the gain from 60 to 70% after flight one. You'll notice that the oscillations are a bit tighter for flights 2, 3, and 4. I have CarbSmart set to 110 C, but it's actually running at 100 C (212 F). No biggie...

Keep 'em flying.
LJS



600E, 1910 1Y, 8S FP4270, GY611
600N, OS50 Hyper, GY611
Logo 5003D, 600+, 6S TP 5000, DS760
03-30-2008 11:34 PM
 
 
tukkus
Heliman
Location: ma

how about showing a graph without the carbsmart to see what a difference it makes?
03-31-2008 12:10 AM
 
 
joeycoates
Senior Heliman
Location: Dallas, Texas

I have found tha turning my CS up to 120c has helped on my ys50 in 65-75 degree weather. before goint to 120c it was running too rich an bogging, after I changed the temp it is running stronger.
03-31-2008 12:26 AM
 
 
LJS
Veteran
Location: Minnesota, USA

Hi Tukkus,

Yeah, that would be interesting, however, I'm afraid that if I do that, my engine will run hot at the end of the tank. It's running so nice now that I don't want to screw it up.

But if you're interested in that comparison, check out the April issue of RC Heli magazine. The reviewer did what you asked in the article. His YS 90 topped out at 270 degrees F at the end of the tank! That was 70 degrees hotter than the temperature that CarbSmart held it to!

This is really a great product and has increased the pleasure I get from flying my nitro. If you don't have one, you really should consider it. All you need is:

- CarbSmart $62
- HS-81 servo $20
- High Temp RTV $7
- Y harness (if all the channels on your receiver are taken) $4
- Total $93 (Hmm. That's more than I thought I spent , but I still think it's worth it.)
- You can also get a servo mount from ReadyHeli, but I just used a couple Align servo spacers and nuts and it worked just fine. Helped keep the weight down too.

Keep 'em flying.
LJS

600E, 1910 1Y, 8S FP4270, GY611
600N, OS50 Hyper, GY611
Logo 5003D, 600+, 6S TP 5000, DS760
03-31-2008 01:49 AM
 
 
nappyroots2182
Key Veteran
Location: Moline, il

i just tried my setup today. i might need to bump it up to a higher temp also. set at 110C and %60 gain. brung it down and felt with hand. didnt sizzle my spit on my fingers but i had the body off the flight and watched the mixture needle. never moved. i dont think it was doing anything today. dont think my motor got hot enough. even on 100C it didnt richen up. hmmm. think i should turn it up more?

DX7, Trex 600N, YS50, JR770 gyro, trex 500
03-31-2008 02:40 AM
 
 
LJS
Veteran
Location: Minnesota, USA

Hi Nappy,

Yep, it sounds like you need to move the arm on the needle. I figure that while you're hovering, you should see the arm about in the center of its travel. That way, when you unload it in forward flight, it can lean it out a bit. And when you load it up doing full pitch climbouts or tight tictocs, it can richen it. That's what I did, and it seems to be working great.

If your needle never moved, you must not be coming up to the operating temperature. I'd lean it out about a quarter turn and hover it with the body off.

Good luck to you!
LJS

600E, 1910 1Y, 8S FP4270, GY611
600N, OS50 Hyper, GY611
Logo 5003D, 600+, 6S TP 5000, DS760
03-31-2008 03:45 AM
 
 
Helinutnz
Elite Veteran
Location: below 42 South

Thanks for the info. I have just got one and about to set it up.
I have had a great run with my align 50 in the trex. It starts out fine but it can get a little lean toward the end of the tank.
Sounds like this will help a bit.
cheers
03-31-2008 03:51 AM
 
 
nappyroots2182
Key Veteran
Location: Moline, il

ill try leaning it just a bit more. its getting warmer out so i have to figure that too. it was 50degrees out yesterday so ya shes running cool. ill lean it more and more till the needle is centered. thanks

DX7, Trex 600N, YS50, JR770 gyro, trex 500
03-31-2008 04:41 PM
 
 
docjoe
Elite Veteran
Location: Stockton, CA United States

I was fine tuning my Carbsmart with my 600n YS50. It was running rich on 110 and 120. I tuned the gain down just a little and then all of a sudden the heli woke up. It was running rich and very boggy. Then after the adjustment was made, it really made a difference and for the last half of the adjusted flight, the heli was basically unboggable. I was doing tic-tocs with very little collective management for about a minute straight. it was so awesome!

Joe
We haven't seen Colonel Angus around these parts for years!
03-31-2008 06:46 PM
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
nappyroots2182
Key Veteran
Location: Moline, il

so what settings are you running? i have my gain at %60 now. what does gain really do? ive only flown the carbsmart 1 day sofar. trying to get it dialed in better.

DX7, Trex 600N, YS50, JR770 gyro, trex 500
03-31-2008 07:52 PM
 
 
docjoe
Elite Veteran
Location: Stockton, CA United States

I am running at 120*C and I'm not sure what my gain % is now. I don't want to mess with it. But the engine was running a little rich and the power seemed to be fluctuating a lot more. I did adjust the throttle arm a little and it was still running rich. However, I adjusted the gain down a little so the Carb smart would not be trying to adjust the valve too much and that seemed to do the trick.

I think it's a matter of getting the settings dialed in.

Joe
We haven't seen Colonel Angus around these parts for years!
04-01-2008 02:39 PM
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
joeycoates
Senior Heliman
Location: Dallas, Texas

Well my Eagletree w/dashboard ans GPS just arrived today so I have a bit of setting up to do tonight, I am looking forward to figuring out what is really going on as far as head temps are concerned.

Hey LJS, where did you put the temp sensor for the eagle tree and how did you mount it? Is it permanent or can you take it off? If you have any picks then that would be great.

Thanks!
04-04-2008 06:36 PM
 
 
LJS
Veteran
Location: Minnesota, USA

Hi JC,

I mounted the CarbSmart sensor in the fins visible on the bottom of the heli. Then I mounted the Eagletree sensor in the fins as well so that it was touching the same fin as CarbSmart. I glued them both in with high temp RTV. I bought the Arctic Silver thermal adhesive from GrandRC, but I ended up liking the energy absorption characteristics of the RTV better. Plus I think I can cut the EagleTree sensor out if I want to. But they say the CarbSmart sensor is too fragile for that. No problem though. I have no plans to take that one out.

I'm at work right now and have some plans later. I might be able to get you some pics tomorrow -- but you'll probably have it done by then. I try to let the RTV dry 24 hours before using it, so if you're going to use RTV you should get started right away.

I'm planning on trying out the 120 C setting on CarbSmart this weekend. She seems to be a bit rich at the 110 C setting. If I get that done, I'll share my data. Looking forward to seeing yours.

Keep 'em flying.
LJS

600E, 1910 1Y, 8S FP4270, GY611
600N, OS50 Hyper, GY611
Logo 5003D, 600+, 6S TP 5000, DS760
04-04-2008 09:17 PM
 
 
joeycoates
Senior Heliman
Location: Dallas, Texas

Well, I do not have a graph to put up as I was only able to datalog one flight, for some reason after that my computer would not hook up to the flight recorder after several attempts. Of course after I got home it worked perfectly.

Anyway, during my second flight after I had made some adjustments and turned the temp up on the CS to 120c I had another guy look at the Seagull dashboard and we found that my CS wanted to keep the head temp @ 186f when the CS was set at 120c which is 248f, so in other words I have a 62 degree difference. I have no reason to think that the Eagletree is reading incorrectly as it showed the correct ambient temp both before and after the flight. (It is amazing how quickly the engine cools after the heatsoak following shutdown.) Anyway, the engine definatly liked the 120c setting more. I would like to try the 130c setting, but I will need to keep an eye on it as after doing a lot of consecutive tic-tocs (like a minute+) the head temp went to 238 according to the dashboard. 130c is 266f which is getting a bit warm so I really need to have someone watching. I will see what happens tomorrow.

I would like to see a way to calibrate the temp sensor on the CS on a future model, perhaps using an usb connection...
04-06-2008 05:24 AM
 
 
LJS
Veteran
Location: Minnesota, USA

Hi All,

Well, I got four more flights on my CarbSmart. The first three were at the 110 C setting. The engine sounded good, but just a touch rich. So on the fourth flight, I turned it up to 120 C.

It made a significant difference in temp according to the EagleTree. The temperature range was also a bit larger -- about 20 F. But I didn't like the way it sounded as much, so I think I'm going to go back to the 110 C setting.

Keep 'em flying.
LJS



600E, 1910 1Y, 8S FP4270, GY611
600N, OS50 Hyper, GY611
Logo 5003D, 600+, 6S TP 5000, DS760
04-06-2008 04:27 PM
 
 
duceduc
Veteran
Location: Saitama-Ken, Japan

LJS:

Which of the two eagletree sensors did you get. I had both but didn't like the wrap around sensor. I didn't give me an accurate reading. So I install the other one. The head is two big for me to between the fins. This is how I installed it. The CS sensor is one fin below that. I haven't tested for accuracy.


I am still confuse as to setting the needle. Mine is set to 1 1/2 at failsafe with both arms pointing straight up. My most lean is set to about 1 1/4 and most rich about 1 3/4. Is this correct for starters?

Do It! Do It™ - Duc S
04-06-2008 04:50 PM
 
 
LJS
Veteran
Location: Minnesota, USA

Hi Duce,

I just tried to keep things simple with my installation. I put the sensors in the fins visible on the bottom of the heli. The EagleTree sensor is the wrap around type, but I just stuck it in between the fins and glued it in with high temp RTV. I figure with RTV I can cut it out if I want to. (I have electrics as well where I might want to monitor temperature so the wrap around would work well in that application.)

I'm very happy with the temperature readings that I'm getting. The sensor locations appear to be giving me very good heat transfer.

I kept the servo mount simple as well. I just used a couple of Align servo mount spacers and nuts to mount the HS-81 servo and to keep the weight down.

You can see in the photo that my full lean position is at 1 turn open. Full rich is a bit past 1 3/8. I've never had any temps outside of the CarbSmart range (for the 110 C and 120 C settings), so I'm sure I have enough travel in both directions.

Hope the pics help.

Keep 'em flying.
LJS



600E, 1910 1Y, 8S FP4270, GY611
600N, OS50 Hyper, GY611
Logo 5003D, 600+, 6S TP 5000, DS760
04-06-2008 07:04 PM
 
 
Cameron
Veteran
Location: St. Johns, Florida

Whenever I can see my mix on my carbsmart while hovering it is at full lean. Does this mean I need to make the engine leaner on the neddle to help move the arm towards the center to have equal throw on the rich and lean positions?

Thanks,
Cameron
04-07-2008 12:16 AM
 
 
LJS
Veteran
Location: Minnesota, USA

Hi Cameron,

Yep. If it's at full lean, that indicates that you haven't come up to the operating temperature. I've had good luck setting the arm so that it is in the middle of it's travel while hovering with half a tank. That seems to give CarbSmart enough travel in either direction.

Keep 'em flying.
LJS

600E, 1910 1Y, 8S FP4270, GY611
600N, OS50 Hyper, GY611
Logo 5003D, 600+, 6S TP 5000, DS760
04-07-2008 12:21 AM
 
 
Cameron
Veteran
Location: St. Johns, Florida

Thanks for the fast response LJS. I thought I read somewhere that if that was the case then you need to richen but that didn't make sense to me. Just wanted to get word from another source.

Thanks,
Cameron
04-07-2008 12:33 AM
 
 
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Align T-REX 600N 700N > More EagleTree Data for CarbSmart
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