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Ron’s HeliProz South . Century Helicopter . MTA Hobbies

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Aerial Photography and Video > First HC flight ... could do with some input please!
 
 
rerazor
Elite Veteran
Location: Mich.

Yes, if you autotrim for the wind and yaw it will drift. However, all we are trying to do is have a heli that will stay level and not roll over and be reliable and give you confidence at all times.. Any drift can be corrected by holding a little cyclic.

Attitude hold works with both the HC and Api but having owned both I found the HC to be much more reliable and better for all environments with much less hassle. Basically, with the HC I can get up get the shots and be done and spend less time messing with it.

Plus the FMA sensor and cable never gave me much confidence.
08-25-2008 02:49 PM
 
 
AceBird
Elite Veteran
Location: Utica, NY USA

Quote 
With the HC units it makes no difference your environment, ever. You can yaw and it does not change its last setting (unlike the IR the APi uses).
---
I spent more time with the APi messing with trimming etc.. then flying.

You will have a lot less fooling around with the APi if you stop the practice of calibrating for every attitude. When you calibrate for every attitude you not only have to make up for the change in wind but also for the fact that you have biased the horizon in the previous calibration. It is like twice the error. This doesn’t happen with a gyro controlled system because the gyro’s don’t look at a fixed horizon like the APi does. Calibrate once in absolutely 0 wind between the hours of 10:00AM and 4:00 PM above 50 ft. In zero wind it shouldn’t make any difference at all which way the tail is pointing. If it does you haven’t got it calibrated for 0. Once it is calibrated, leave the freaking thing alone and only make adjustments for wind with your trimmers. The calibration does not change in the APi when you yaw the tail but it could be wrong to begin with.

I fly with the APi on 100% of the time from take off to landing. It would be hard for me to do that if this drifting was such a problem.

Ace
What could be more fun?
08-25-2008 10:02 PM
 
 
Ben H
Senior Heliman
Location: South / South West , UK

Thats good advice Acebird, i've been thinking of trying that out. It wouldn't allow for radical terrain like a mountain on one side, but we have no mountains in southern England!!
I did complete a job photographing a quaint english hotel in a small cove on the coast, the valley was about 300ft high on one side, the APi couldn't cope whatever the calibration so I had to fly and shoot manually (scary ) but usually the terrain is quite flat relative to the heights I work at.
I had refrained from using too much tx trim because when the APi is turned off, the heli is no longer trimmed nicely for landing...I'll try out your method though.

Ben.... "what goes up, must come down!"
08-25-2008 10:22 PM
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
Hogster
Key Veteran
Location: Surrey, UK

Quote 
Once it is calibrated, leave the freaking thing alone and only make adjustments for wind with your trimmers.
Even though this isn't what is advised (ie. whenever you touch the trim you 'should' land and go through the SET procedure), I can't see a problem with this logic myself ... do the 8 second do dah in a stable wind-free hover, then if it drifts (due to wind / changing yaw position relative to wind etc), just trim it out so it's level again. If you need to yaw, do so, then correct any drift with the trims. It HAS to be better than trying to hold an 8 second hover hundreds of metres away in the middle of a shoot?!

Cheers,


David
08-25-2008 10:22 PM
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
rerazor
Elite Veteran
Location: Mich.

Honestly, I only auto trim the HC at eye level if the CG has been changed. If not I just hold a little bit of cyclic. Think of it as a "Anti-roll-over".

I never trusted the APi, it would roll if you yawed 180 because the heat signature would change with the sun in the morning/evening sky. Again, your relying on a FMA Ir sensor and a poor designed cable connector.

Hate to bash the Api because the customer service with Mark Webber is great and I love the Spartan DS760 gyros.
08-25-2008 11:01 PM
 
 
AceBird
Elite Veteran
Location: Utica, NY USA

Quote 
I never trusted the APi, it would roll if you yawed 180 because the heat signature would change with the sun in the morning/evening sky.

This sounds like intuition not deduction. The heat is radiated from the ground not the sun. The suns rays warm the ground and that is what gets deflected up. So except for sunrise and sunset the horizon is very consistent. Is IR perfect or course not but gyro's certainly are not perfect either.

Ace
What could be more fun?
08-27-2008 05:58 PM
 
 
Hogster
Key Veteran
Location: Surrey, UK

Quote 
The heat is radiated from the ground not the sun.
I don't quite follow your reasoning there, Ace. When the I/R sensor sees the incredibly powerful I/R energy coming from the sun, the AP2000i will react as it should, by tipping the helicopter away from the source of the I/R energy.

My 2p ...


David
08-27-2008 07:46 PM
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
AceBird
Elite Veteran
Location: Utica, NY USA

Quote 
When the I/R sensor sees the incredibly powerful I/R energy coming from the sun, the AP2000i will react as it should, by tipping the helicopter away from the source of the I/R energy.

You are using intuition instead of deductive reasoning. If what you said was true when at high noon you banked the heli and the sensor saw this incredibly powerful IR energy the heli would increase the bank and plow right into the ground. Now I ask you, does that happen? Just because someone reports that this is a fault of the IR system doesn’t mean it really is.

Ace
What could be more fun?
08-27-2008 09:15 PM
 
 
Hogster
Key Veteran
Location: Surrey, UK

Ok I admit I didn't experience that problem when I was using my AP2000i, I'm just echoing others' experiences.




David
08-27-2008 09:17 PM
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
rerazor
Elite Veteran
Location: Mich.

David, you have fell for his antics again by responding.
08-27-2008 11:31 PM
 
 
nooobs
Key Veteran
Location: Toronto, Canada

Take the blue pill David. (Ignore button)
08-27-2008 11:47 PM
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
AceBird
Elite Veteran
Location: Utica, NY USA

Quote 
David, you have fell for his antics again by responding.

Yours’ flew into the ground when you banked the heli in stabilized mode??? Some of you people don’t like rebuttals from people you consider beneath you. You want newbie’s to believe all your BS, no questions asked. Unfortunately, many do. I will continue to take the heat so that newbie’s can think for themselves and quietly ignore the BS.

Quote 
Take the blue pill David.

Wow! Do as I say not do as I do.

Ace
What could be more fun?
08-28-2008 09:34 PM
 
 
BigguyOz
Key Veteran
Location: Sydney, New South Wales, Australia

It pains me to say this, but for once Acebird is actually correct. The I/R sensor picks up that the ground temperature is hotter than the sky. Obviously the tempersture difference might change during the day depending on how much the ground has been heated by the sun.

Tony Stott
Scenefromabove.com.au
13.3m mast
AP hot air balloon
AP kites
08-28-2008 11:11 PM
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
rerazor
Elite Veteran
Location: Mich.

Fly in conditions where there is a field on the west side and a tree line on the east side etc.. When you yaw the IR sensor would push the heli away. Basically, if there is any environment where the heat signature is different the heli will react when yawed. The HC units (gyros) have no clue or effect to the environment. I am much happier and spend much less time with my HC units and they work in ALL environment. Plus, as stated before I hated relying on the cheap FMA IR sensor and the poor designed connector/cable.

Thats MY opinion and that has been MY experience and thats my 2 cents worth.
08-29-2008 01:24 AM
 
 
nooobs
Key Veteran
Location: Toronto, Canada

I agree. I've flown with both and I have to say HC flies in all conditions and not dependent on external factors. Day/night/fog/snow/rain/ -24°C, etc... ...and up to 85 Km winds... it just works.
08-29-2008 01:31 AM
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
Griffo
Senior Heliman
Location: Canberra, Australia

I'm actually coming around to my HC. I wasn't all that chuffed initially but with some fine tuning of the stab settings it's really come into it's own .
08-29-2008 02:25 AM
 
 
AceBird
Elite Veteran
Location: Utica, NY USA

Quote 
Plus, as stated before I hated relying on the cheap FMA IR sensor and the poor designed connector/cable.

This makes me smile. You can get a better grade cable from Spartan rather than make your own or adapt FMA's. Secondly, you are relying on cheap grade gyro's with the HC, three of them.

IR technology doesn't drift, gyro's do especially with temperature swings and a vibration environment.

Ace
What could be more fun?
08-29-2008 05:39 PM
 
 
rerazor
Elite Veteran
Location: Mich.

Okay, I'll bite.

Acebird, what version HC do you have and what heli do you have it mounted on?

Why are you so against gyros for stabilization?
Do you fly with a tail gyro?

The cable from Spartan is better but still the connector on the IR sensor is junk.

There is no need to debate, everybody is allowed their opinion.
08-29-2008 07:08 PM
 
 
AceBird
Elite Veteran
Location: Utica, NY USA

Quote 
There is no need to debate, everybody is allowed their opinion.

Is it a debate? I am stating my opinion.

I decided not to invest in the HC because of what I have read on RR. I have given my reasons and others have stated their reasons for not investing in a gyro based stabilizer. I think everybody is allowed to make their own choices. I don't think we, the general public, should be forced to take someones word for what is better then something else especially when they have monetary interest in the product.

Ace
What could be more fun?
08-29-2008 09:28 PM
 
 
rerazor
Elite Veteran
Location: Mich.

Oh, so you have never flown with a HC unit before? As long as that is made clear to the public viewing these posts and they take your experience into their decision making.

Debate, open discussion, voicing opinions that is all I meant by the term "debate".

Nice discussing the issue and making it clear, I'm off to take the blue pill now.
08-29-2008 10:04 PM
 
 
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Aerial Photography and Video > First HC flight ... could do with some input please!
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