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CarbonXtreme . Midland Helicopters . HeliProz

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Aerial Photography and Video > First HC flight ... could do with some input please!
 
 
Hogster
Key Veteran
Location: Surrey, UK

Hi all,

Just had the first test hover of my HC Rigid today (still using the flybar) and I can things really need tweaking. For the moment I don't have the PC interface, but I will get it soon.

First thoughts - how should I trim it? With the HC in horizontal mode it drifts quite badly in a hover (so much so that I need to hold the cyclic stick at an angle to keep it in a hover). Should I correct this with trims? I found this in another thread:

"4.If I make trim changes to the heli during test flying and reset the neutral points, do I put the transmitter trims back to center? No, leave them where they are, because if you put them back to center, the trim is not neutral again, as you trimmed again when moving them back."

So it looks like I can trim it into a stable hover using trims, hold the SET button until it goes green, and then that's that ... ?

Also the tail hold is atrocious! The tail just wanders around by itself, the heli corkscrews if I give more pitch, and the tail will continue to wander after I've given a yaw input - it's horrible! It says the HC defaults to Heading Hold mode at 65% gain ... I really hope this *isn't* what Heading Hold feels like! I gather I can tweak the gain once I've got the PC interface .... Hmm maybe it's worth trying the AUX channel where the gain/mode can be adjusted ... although it means losing either camera shutter or tilt as I have no spare sockets on the Rx

I think that's all for now. If anyone has any input to give I would be most grateful.

I know there are loads of HC threads on this board already, but they don't directly address the issues I'm having ... so I'm sorry for creating yet another thread!

Many thanks,


David
03-30-2008 11:56 AM
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
gtarling
Heliman
Location: London

David - you're right about the trimming - trim for stable hover, land, press button to store settings, reset trims and try another hover. I think you really need the PC software to get it set up correctly - got nowhere with mine until I had that. Can't comment on the tail gyro - never tried it myself - some like it and others don't!
03-30-2008 01:26 PM
 
 
Seablade
Veteran
Location: floating around

I haven't used the Rigid yet(too many spare flybars!)
Is there a switch in the program to turn off the Flybar stabilization or is the HC fighting the Flybar?
I guess you will not know until you get the PC connection?
What radio are you using?

"Vini, Vidi, Velcro"
03-30-2008 01:34 PM
 
 
Hogster
Key Veteran
Location: Surrey, UK

Thanks guys

Gordon - Hmm the chap from Captron stated that you *mustn't* reset the trims ... see the bold part in my first post ... Yeah I will be ordering the PC interface soon ... want to order it along with the flybarless stuff

Seablade - I think they say that without the PC interface, the Rigid functions just like the 3D - the Rigid mode can only be enabled using the PC software.

I'm using a Futaba FF9 T9CHP, and a Futaba R149-DP receiver.

Cheers


David
03-30-2008 01:41 PM
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
Seablade
Veteran
Location: floating around

Ah okay...you bought this one "used" didn't you? Perhaps the guy who had it before you enabled it? That's going to be a bummer
I wish I were near a post office, I'd loan you mine as I'm not flying too much right now.

"Vini, Vidi, Velcro"
03-30-2008 01:46 PM
 
 
Hogster
Key Veteran
Location: Surrey, UK

Yes it was second hand, but it was never installed. Also I sent it to Germany to be upgraded to a Rigid, so I assume all the settings are factory-fresh

I think I just need to have a good fiddle with the PC software

Would be interested to hear more thoughts about why the tail hold is so poor though ... maybe I just need to wick up the gain on the software ... argh, I need that software

Cheers


David
03-30-2008 01:51 PM
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
rerazor
Elite Veteran
Location: Mich.

You really need the software. You have no idea if you have it set correctly because you can't view the diagnosis tab. You could have the stick movements working on the heli correctly but be totally wrong in the software. You also have no idea if the sensor mounting location is correct. Yes, you can compensate for it by changing the TX settings but that is not the correct way.

As far the "set" button procedure:

You trim the heli to a stable hands free hover with the TX. Land hold SET button in until light changes, unplug power, power up. You can NEVER touch the TX trim buttons again or else you have to re do the SET button procedure again.

Note: Make sure all you flight modes have the same trim settings.

The Auto trim function and gain control is nice to have working also.
03-30-2008 02:14 PM
 
 
Hogster
Key Veteran
Location: Surrey, UK

Ok ok I'll buy the software tomorrow

Thanks for the information Will let you know how I get on


David
03-30-2008 04:14 PM
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
fredd
Senior Heliman
Location: UK - London

I'm still confused between the SET and Autotrim features. If you have Autotrim enabled ans switch in during hover to set your trims, why would you use the SET method ?
03-30-2008 06:14 PM
 
 
rerazor
Elite Veteran
Location: Mich.

My understanding is the SET procedure tells the HC the sensor mounted location relative to the Heli. The auto-trim resets the "trim settings" each time and could do the same as the SET procedure. I'm not 100% sure on that but I always do the SET procedure after initial setup or if I move the sensor.
03-30-2008 06:25 PM
 
 
Hogster
Key Veteran
Location: Surrey, UK

So the SET procedure only really needs to be done once, and the AUTO-TRIM setting allows you to calibrate the trim of the helicopter in-flight?

Thanks


David
03-30-2008 06:34 PM
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
rerazor
Elite Veteran
Location: Mich.

Yes.
03-30-2008 06:35 PM
 
 
AceBird
Elite Veteran
Location: Utica, NY USA

Quote 
You really need the software.

If you really need it, it should come with the device. Sounds like horse trading marketing.

Ace
What could be more fun?
03-30-2008 09:57 PM
 
 
Hogster
Key Veteran
Location: Surrey, UK

Yeah that's true, why don't they supply it with the HC, particularly with the Rigid, which can only function as a Rigid if you have the software!!


David
03-30-2008 10:16 PM
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
Highviz
Senior Heliman
Location: Newbury, Berks, UK

David,

If you have any problem getting the PC software you are welcome to borrow mine - I'm not too far away and could pop down one evening if needed. It is definately worth getting your own if possible because you will probably re-visit the settings a few times!

Bear in mind that the lead supplied has a 9 pin serial connector, not USB, so you need the appropriate port on your PC (or a serial to USB adaptor)

Malcolm
03-30-2008 10:25 PM
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
Hogster
Key Veteran
Location: Surrey, UK

Hi Malcolm

Thanks for the offer I will be buying the software tomorrow, along with a Serial -> USB adaptor and the flybarless head for the Logo from Revolution Models, assuming they've got it all in stock

Cheers!


David
03-30-2008 10:36 PM
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
Hogster
Key Veteran
Location: Surrey, UK

Hmm interesting. I've just hooked up the AUX channel to a spare channel on the Rx, and the gyro was definitely NOT in Heading Hold mode before!! As with my previous gyro, when heading hold is switched on, with the helicopter sitting in the ground, a yaw input would cause the tail servo to move, and then stay at that position when the stick was released ... it wasn't doing that before. So I've now got it set up with about 60% gain in heading hold mode - I will see how it flies now.

Cheers,


David
03-31-2008 12:31 AM
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
Vortex Aerial
Senior Heliman
Location: Huntington Beach Ca

I couldnt get the onboard HC gyro to hold on my Logo10 so i went back to the 401 and its great.
The following is direct from "Chandler" at Esprit Models. Hes an HC Guru of sorts:
The HC gyro isnt any better than a 240... your better off sticking with your 401. After you get the servos moveing the correct way "per the diagnostic tab in the software" , zero all your trims,sub-trims, and set your ATVs to 100%. After youve done all that along with telling the HC how its mounted, you use the set function button on the sensor. After that you never use it again! You then trim for level hover with the unit off..... then land and turn the HC on to make sure the swash stays reasonably level as to not crash when you switch it on in flight.....take, off...switch it on.... trim it for level hover and adjust gain to your liking. The AUTO TRIM FUNCTION DOES NOTHING in regards to bringing the heli back to some preset value thats going to make the heli fly right after the fact. Dont even use the grey wire. If it goes out of trim (wich it most likley wont) just trim it back.
03-31-2008 02:59 AM
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
_architorture_
Heliman
Location: Tampa, Florida

I disagree about the auto trim. I was using the manual trim before and I just hooked up autotrim this weekend. I like it much better, I settle into a hover, hold for a few seconds, flip autotrim, and it just sits there like I was still hovering it. You do not have to worry about landing and hitting the set button again.

With that being said, how is everyone setting their heads with the helicommand? Doesn't the autotrim feature set a little trim in the pitch and roll axis, so they would not be correct when setting everything to 90 degrees. Being that you cant use subtrim, what do you do if your servo arms are a little off? What is the best way to set 0 and full pitch?
03-31-2008 03:33 AM
 
 
lejon
Senior Heliman
Location: Las Vegas Nevada

Hogster, in addition to all of the help you might want to check to make sure that you mount the unit so that it is parallel to the main shaft. When you activate the unit the system will automatically attempt to level the heli based on what is sees as vertical. If that is off what the heli is actually sitting at then the correction will cause it to drift. One of the easiest ways to check for parallel is by switching between modes while on the bench or ground and checking to see if the swash plate moves. If it moves then it is not aligned. If on the bench grab the unit and straighten it out while switching modes, if it gets worse then go the other way.
The other thing is that I had the old software for the PC interface and it does not have the diagnostic tab so make sure you go to the site and download the latest version.
One of the advantages of the software is that it will tell you if you have things reversed. I had the control for pitch from the radio to the HC telling the HC that increase was decrease (the stick moved in the right direction) and so to make it work I had to reverse it in the controls to the servo. Problem is that it will respond and look right but the mixing that is going on in the HC will be out of whack. Using the PC interface you should first set up the radio to HC and make sure that the bars respond to the stick movements.
Hope this helps
Lejon
03-31-2008 04:35 AM
 
 
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Aerial Photography and Video > First HC flight ... could do with some input please!
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