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HeliHobby . Ron’s HeliProz South . Century Helicopter

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QuickWorldWide Ep and Wet Fuel Helis > Some hints for successful assembling of the Dominator 26
 
 
Jon QWW
New Heliman
Location: Coopersburg, PA 18036

Hello Michael,

It is our intention here at QWW to make everything as with best quality we can. The correct use of Loctite is important for proper operation of our helicopters & any other machine with screw to metal application. That is not in question. Many times a loose shaft can be loctited and be fine for operation if the shaft is just slightly out of tolerance. 0.4mm is not in tolerance. We could replace this for anyone who had such an out of tolerance part.

For the point that the multiplier arm hit the anti-rotation guide, there are few configurations to attach the carbon upright to the aluminum block. Some make it possible for the upright to interfere with the arm. The Octane Dominator V2 doesn’t use this system any longer anyhow, so this is not a point anymore.

For the fan shroud: This was our original production batch of fan shrouds. In the future we will have fan shrouds with the hole more centered. I do not understand what you mean you had to rework the clutch to make it fit, which is not important.

If the start shaft was missing, we would replace that with a call or email. If you made a new one, that is ok. Be aware that we harden the start shafts. If the shaft you made is not hardened, it will likely not last very long and wear out from the one-way starting bearing.
Please confirm for us to post you out a pair for both of the machines.

For the main shaft bearing blocks, we feel that the gassers are generally not used for 3D flight. We only include the thrust bearing for the lower main shaft bearing block stock. If you want to upgrade the upper bearing block to have a thrust bearing as well, we have them available. You can get them from our shopping cart by part # QF660a. The new BAT V2 now has 4 bearing on the main shaft

If the press fit and Loctite were not good in your assemblies, we have to apologize for that. We fly the same helis as we produce for the market. We don’t do anything special for our helicopters over what we sell to our customers. We haven’t had such issues of having the bearings slide up and down like that. If the bearings are pressed in place and loctited with the 638 bearing retaining Loctite, there should be no issue.

With regard to thrust bearings, there are two different races. There is a looser inner race and a tighter outer race. The outer race should be free spinning in the housing.

With the multiplier and hiller arms on the head, we prefer to Loctite them in place and allow it to do its job. The option of putting a nut on the bolt is a nice idea.

For the dampener shaft in the head, I think that you may have gotten one out of a 30 head. It seems the diameter and lengths were not correct. Again we will be happy to send correct part.

For the counter gear assembly on the shaft drive, the new assemblies are being done as you have suggested. The 5mm gears are being lathed to accommodate the bearing being pressed from the inside out.

For the Tail case, there should be a sleeve over the tail output shaft that fixes the gear in place.

For the tail links, the grips have multiple sets of holes. You need to be sure that the links are installed in the holes further away from the helicopter.

I hope this addresses all the concerns. If you have any further questions you can PM me or email me directly at jon@quickworldwide.com
03-24-2008 05:23 PM
 
 
mhagenmayer
New Heliman
Location: Germany

Hello Jon,

I appreciate your statement.
I fully agree that the correct usage of loctite is important for this helicopters. Loctite is necessary to secure screws and bolts but for the bearings in important functions, like the main shaft bearings, the usage of loctite is an additional improvement only. In my mind I think that such important bearings must be fixed mechanical correctly.
For all models, helicopters and others one thing is most important: Saftey first.
The problem is, that you never know, what the customers do with their helis. So I think, you must do all on your side to protect the customers and other people. When someone damaged his heli caused by a bad loctite application, he only looses money, but when a person gets hurt, there will be certainly the question about the design of the heli and someone may get back to you.
I only want to say, when there are economic and efficient technical solutions you don’t need to rely on a few loctite or other glue.

With regard to the anti-rotation guide could you please show me the new design for Dominator V2?

As I was not aware about possible upgrades, would there be a way to publish them in the form of a newsletter to show the customers the improvements that you made?

We are surprised to hear that the gassers are generally not used for 3D flight. Before we decided to buy the both machines we talked several times to QWW if the gassers are OK for 3D flight. The answer was clear: the most lightweight and best heli of the world in this class and it is possible.
We know the helis in this class are not the best solutions for flying 3D, but we think flying rolls and loops and an invert flight must be possible.

I would be interested in two other items and I hope you give me an explanation:
What is the weight of the gasser and why do we have such problems with the centre of gravity ?

We hope that we could contribute with our documentation to your goal to make everything with the best quality you can.
This is a benefit for all of us.

We wish all pilots a good season and a lot of fun with their helis.

Michael & Werner
03-25-2008 01:40 PM
 
 
shuttlepilot
Elite Veteran
Location: Mullins, South Carolina

Quote 
We are surprised to hear that the gassers are generally not used for 3D flight. Before we decided to buy the both machines we talked several times to QWW if the gassers are OK for 3D flight. The answer was clear: the most lightweight and best heli of the world in this class and it is possible.
We know the helis in this class are not the best solutions for flying 3D, but we think flying rolls and loops and an invert flight must be possible.

My OD 26 will roll, loop, stall turns, fly inverted. That is basically the list of my abilities, but usually this is not considered "3d" by the RR crowd. I feel the heli is fully capable of 3d flight with the right pilot.

My heli weighs right at 13.2lbs with a sub-c battery up front and the tank 1/2 full. I'm running a 20oz tank. I used the sub-c reciever battery to get my heli to balance just right in front of the mainshaft. Of course I run a generator now and can use a smaller pack. I guess the generator equipment make up the weight difference.

I have traditionally felt that the Quick helis seem to come out a little tail heavy and that's is why I usually have ran a larger battery pack up front to achieve proper balance. I am also running the stainless Zimmerman muffler that QWW has on their site instead of a tuned pipe with header. This probably helps to keep the CG forward.

EDIT...or in addition: I feel that the new frame design has addressed any issues with CG. With 4 or the five servos in front of the mail shaft and the fuel tank placement CG should be very easy to get worked out.

Gas is Great
Quick OD 26
03-25-2008 02:05 PM
 
 
RCHelicopterGuy
Veteran
Location: Michigan

Quote 
As for testing, last time I checked helis are tested by customers and people outside of a company all the time.

That may be true with some companies, but that doesn't mean it's ideal.

Quote 
If we are selling to customers, why shouldn't customers be the one to test it? Product testers are used in many industries to trial test and improve products, why can't this be so in the RC industry?

Because your customers are not your Guinea Pigs. You do product testing by hiring product testers. You don't take questionable products, throw them in your customer's lap, and expect them to do your product testing at their expense.

Your customer has a reasonable and correct expectation of receiving a product that is reasonably sorted out. Your customers are buying heli kits, not Beta products. It's not your customer's responsibility to do your product testing for you. That Beta testing is the responsibility of QWW's in-house staff and "hired gun" pilots (to whatever extent that is).

Your whole post had an air of "We know there's stuff that we need to fix. Why are our customers so upset that we need them to tell us what's wrong?"
03-25-2008 03:50 PM
 
 
shuttlepilot
Elite Veteran
Location: Mullins, South Carolina

RCHelicopterGuy

Ahh hmm. And so all of these threads that I read on RR about this failing and that with other popular helis when they are in the hands of end users is OK since it's not QWW. Let's be realistic now....please.

Quote 
Because your customers are not your Guinea Pigs.

I wonder if any of the 600n flyers felt this way... Or Synergy flyers.....or you name it.

Quote 
It's not your customer's responsibility to do your product testing for you.

Please make sure that you post this last comment to EVERY heli forum on RR.............if only to be fair.

Gas is Great
Quick OD 26
03-25-2008 03:54 PM
 
 
RCHelicopterGuy
Veteran
Location: Michigan

Shuttle,

I'm not quite sure why you're singling me out all of a sudden. I never once said it was okay with any manufacturer, much less QWW.

The reason I said what I said here was to address a specific question that was asked by Chris at QWW. Does that somehow make me a hypocrite when I give a specific answer to a specific question?

If a representative of Align (or any other company) asked me the same question, I'd give them the same answer.

No, I will not go around to each and every forum and "post this last comment". Be realistic.

If you had the ability to be something other than an apologist for Quick, you might see that the last post was nothing more than an objective answer to an objective question.

(I predict that in just a moment, someone from QWW is going to get upset and accuse me of picking on them.)
03-25-2008 04:01 PM
 
 
shuttlepilot
Elite Veteran
Location: Mullins, South Carolina

Actually I was going to doing a little editing and say that I didn't mean to sound like I was singling you out.

But really, think about it. When another manufacturers heli comes out and users have this or that issue with it while flying what happens?.....An upgrade comes out.....do you agree? This is a widely accepted method of the company capitalizing on flaws or corners cut in design process. Think about it. You recieve dollars for the kit. Your consumer does your testing and finds the flaws and then that same consumer pays you to have an upgrade. Pretty sweet huh?

The reason I came off as I did is this is not something that is specific to a QWW heli, but you made this comment:

Quote 
That Beta testing is the responsibility of QWW's in-house staff and "hired gun" pilots (to whatever extent that is).

I don't think you can get more direct than that....do you?
QWW does do testing in house. Their helis are flown quite a bit before being kitted and brought to the public. Just because it seems that QWW is putting a lot of new kits out now doesn't mean that it hasn't been in the works for quite some time.

Quote 
If you had the ability to be something other than an apologist for Quick, you might see that the last post was nothing more than an objective answer to an objective question.

I would hope that you could keep things away from personal attacks please. It adds nothing to the forum. I'm not being an "aploigist" for anyone. It's just when I see a comments that could be applied to ANY heli manufacturer out there being singled out like it is a QWW only issue.....I comment. Once again, didn't mean to rub you the wrong way.

Gas is Great
Quick OD 26
03-25-2008 04:32 PM
 
 
Quick Worldwide
rrAdvertiser
Location: Coopersburg, PA

Guinea Pigs?

People who received our helis for testing purposes are not being forced to test anything at their expense. They are sent the heli to build and test, with the option afterward to either keep or send back to us. Many industries use customers as beta testers, and since the public is the one buying the heli shouldn't they be able to hear from other flyers what the story is? I fail to see where the problem is. We know the helis work, we know how to put them together, but ultimately its the customer's opinion that counts, not ours. As for questionable products, we won't ship it unless its ready to be assembled into a safe, quality machine. It seems to me you are twisting around what I said, for what reason I am not sure. This whole pepsi challenge concept was to give customers a chance to put their input into what they think would make a heli better. We aim to please all pilots, not just "hired guns", so why would we just use them? We prefer to offer this to all, so we get a good cross section of pilots.

To be quite honest, I assumed you would eventually show up here. I have already had several communications with you in regard to our reasons for the way we have chose to do things, and I don't see how I could have been any clearer. You chose to disagree and that is your choice. All I ask is that not hijack this forum for your own personal amusement. I believe mhagenmayer had good intention for this forum, to share opinion and experiences. It would be a shame for you to muck it up in order to further your personal agenda to make a point that has already been discussed several times via PM. Instead of killing this forum, please either PM or start another topic so this one can go on in peace.

Chris

PS The challenge is open to everyone, including novices, hired guns, scale pilots, or anyone else.
03-25-2008 04:34 PM
 
 
snobdrs
Senior Heliman
Location: coatesville,pa-usa

Ok everyone lets be totally real. Everyone knows there have been problems in the past. Even QWW. They know what the issues are and are doing their best to improve apon them. For a small company i think they are doing a good job, not to say they couldnt do better. We should be here to give constructive critisim. If you buy a kit and something is wrong, they will do their best to correct it.
They build each one of their helis, making sure it is correct. Some may say they should have done this or that, but that can be said of any heli.
Any one of you try to design, get the parts manfactured, do quaility control, then package and make sure every parts is correct every screw is there. Its not that easy.
Lets work with them as they will work with us. Respect needs to run in both directions. And if this happens both sides will bennifit

Support your local hobby shop
03-25-2008 04:46 PM
 
 
RCHelicopterGuy
Veteran
Location: Michigan

I'm not quite sure how answering a specific question with a specific answer gets construed as "hijacking", but oh well.
03-25-2008 06:08 PM
 
 
snobdrs
Senior Heliman
Location: coatesville,pa-usa

RC if you had just stated that you feel it would be better to hire a person to test these helis before the consumer recives a kit, it may have been taken better. Rather then attacking.
Quote 
Because your customers are not your Guinea Pigs. You do product testing by hiring product testers. You don't take questionable products, throw them in your customer's lap, and expect them to do your product testing at their expense.
Come on this is exactly what im talking about.

Support your local hobby shop
03-25-2008 07:15 PM
 
 
RCHelicopterGuy
Veteran
Location: Michigan

Okee dokee. Next time, I'll try to tiptoe around more so that noone gets their feathers ruffled.
03-25-2008 07:46 PM
 
 
snobdrs
Senior Heliman
Location: coatesville,pa-usa

No just do it in an adult manner. Try to be profesional about it.

Support your local hobby shop
03-25-2008 08:21 PM
 
 
RCHelicopterGuy
Veteran
Location: Michigan

You got it, brother. I stand duly corrected, and in awe of your diplomatic skills.
03-25-2008 08:22 PM
 
 
snobdrs
Senior Heliman
Location: coatesville,pa-usa

And i rest my case

Support your local hobby shop
03-25-2008 09:23 PM
 
 
Dilbeck
Veteran
Location: Springdale Arkansas

Well it looks like a stand still and maybe a good thing. Shuttlepilot i think you've crossed the line between rep and customer and your responses are no longer considered non biased. You have to let it go for i don't think they are going to send you a free machine!!!!!

If it doesn't fly sell it!
03-28-2008 02:24 AM
 
 
Quick50Nikl
Senior Heliman
Location: Sweden,Sthlm,järfäll a,

A question is there anyother forum that the builder/designer is online to answer questions? if u go to the RR TT forum is there a representative from TT there to answer questions?

I think we should be apreciative of QWW being on RR helping us out.

Assumption is the mother of all . . . . ups
04-10-2008 01:43 AM
 
 
ripmax
Heliman
Location: Indiana

Quote 
The correct use of Loctite is important for proper operation of our helicopters

Quote 
Many times a loose shaft can be loctited and be fine for operation

BWHAHAHAHAHA..... pos. Are you kidding me?

Quote 
For the counter gear assembly on the shaft drive, the new assemblies are being done as you have suggested.
Quote 
For the point that the multiplier arm hit the anti-rotation guide, there are few configurations to attach the carbon upright to the aluminum block. Some make it possible for the upright to interfere with the arm.
Quote 
For the main shaft bearing blocks, we feel that the gassers are generally not used for 3D flight.
Quote 
In the future we will have fan shrouds with the hole more centered.
Quote 
With the multiplier and hiller arms on the head, we prefer to Loctite them in place and allow it to do its job. The option of putting a nut on the bolt is a nice idea.

sounds like a well thought out and well tested design...... not
04-10-2008 03:06 AM
 
 
shuttlepilot
Elite Veteran
Location: Mullins, South Carolina

ripmax......I don't see your contribution to the thread. I'm sorry that you feel you must have this approach for your comments in the thread.

All of the comments are being addressed that have been brought up and that you quoted. I can say from PERSONAL experience that these are suggestions on some of the build and kitting. I haven't had to locktite a loose shaft because I have never had one on my Quicks.

I didn't have and haven't had a problem with the multiplier arm hitting the antirotation guide and mine is built by the instructions and I can easily get +/- 11 deg out of my setup.

It's true that gassers used to not be associated with 3d flight, but I think the heli is fully capable with a 3d pilot. My routine only consists of rolls, loops, 540 stalls, some inverted, so I can't speak from personal experience on more than that.

The fan shroud was not centered and is being addressed. Mine is not centered but it is not "fouling" any of the mechanics, I don't have any issues with heat and it hasn't come loose in over 70 hours, so I think it 100% functional, just not as "pretty" as it could be.

I haven't had any issue with the multiplier arms on the hiller by using loctite to hold them. They have also stayed nice and tight for over 70 hours.

The design is well thought out. It is based on previous designs that have been in production for quite a while. I could give you a list of other brands of heli that implement changes in the design throughout the manufacturing and selling process. They are usually referred to as "upgrades" or "V2" or something to that sort.

This industry is everchanging and always trying to redesign to makes things better for the end user. Some of these changes cannot come without REAL WORLD usage by EVERYONE....not just endorsed pilots or CAD programs.

With these thoughts in mind, I don't think that you statement
Quote 
sounds like a well thought out and well tested design...... not
has any real merit.

Happy flyin!!

Gas is Great
Quick OD 26
04-10-2008 03:57 AM
 
 
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QuickWorldWide Ep and Wet Fuel Helis > Some hints for successful assembling of the Dominator 26
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