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Esprit Model . Thunder Power RC . Real Raptors

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Compass Knight 50 > Wish i'd stayed with raptors!
 
 
fr8brkr
Senior Heliman
Location: Asheville,NC

EPC2
Where in the prior post when you referred to"Rodney" did Rodney suggest that too stiff a damper could cause a boom strike ? I read the post and he suggested that even with worn dampers he doubted that would be the cause. Just curious as to what point you are trying to make?
You even agreed with him -- why are you now saying Compass ie Rodney blames the dampers.

Problems ? -- Mine are flown in fresh daily
03-20-2008 12:36 AM
 
 
10X
Senior Heliman
Location: Salisbury N.C.

The way I understood the post was he had talked to Rodney and he told him it was the K&B's fault. But everyone knows that Compass nor any other company will admit to having a QC problem due to the fact of replacement of damaged parts and equipment. But they will come out with a new upgrade that you can buy for a fee, that will fix the problem that they never had. I think its a shame for companys to use the public for R&D and then when told you have a problem, you ignore them.

I was looking at buying two new helis and they were going to be Compass 50 3D's. I emailed Rodney around two weeks ago with a question and have never heard any response, so I will go another direction and buy something else, if I can't get a reply when I'm wanting to buy the product, how the $ell am I going to get any help if there is a problem.
03-20-2008 01:18 AM
 
 
epc2
Senior Heliman
Location: Miami , Fl./S.Dgo.

Quote 
EPC2
Where in the prior post when you referred "Rodney" did Rodney suggest that too stiff a damper could cause a boom strike ? I read the post and he suggested that even with worn dampers he doubted that would be the cause. Just curious as to what point you are trying to make?
You even agreed with him -- why are you now saying Compass ie Rodney blames the dampers.

If you read the post again you'll see the contradiction , He said that even with worn out dampers he doubted that that would cause a boom strike and that's what I agreed with him leaving me with the link failure reason for the boom strike.

Then on an email he said that the K&B were too hard and too hard dampers could've caused the boom strike but IMO that was not the case , I wasn't even using the Extra hard Orange ones I was using the Yellow ones that are just a bit harder than the Stock 8mm ones.

Buddy I'm not going to come here and post somerthing without knowing what I'm saying and w/o facts.

Tks,

epc2.

Team My Wallet.
03-20-2008 01:22 AM
 
 
epc2
Senior Heliman
Location: Miami , Fl./S.Dgo.

10x Yeah you got it, If even with the soft and worn out dampers it's hard to boom strike with harder dampers it should be even more difficult!!!
But you know it's always our fault and we don't know what we're doing.

epc2.

Team My Wallet.
03-20-2008 01:27 AM
 
 
ROTORDISK
New Heliman
Location: London uk

I would have thought that customer relations and good feed back would be of the utmost importance. And would have thought that any good company would observe posts like this and react quickly so that customers like me and epc2 would get the help and support we are entitled to and for others to see this to be done and thus give confidence to other prospective buyers the inspiration to buy the product they invest time and money into and in turn create a strong customer base that will feel reassured that any problem down to them is dealt with swiftly and efficiently! Ok this appears to be a reality check for me as i think this is far from happening. Does anyone disagree with me here or does this make sence?
03-20-2008 01:33 AM
 
 
fr8brkr
Senior Heliman
Location: Asheville,NC

You never mentioned anything of an e-mail in your original posting pertaining to K & B dampers. This was the point I was making. If you are looking for some company to accept all responsibility for the resultant crash of an in-flight failure please let me know.

Problems ? -- Mine are flown in fresh daily
03-20-2008 01:42 AM
 
 
ROTORDISK
New Heliman
Location: London uk

Mine was an in flight failure caused by a bolt shearing as stated in my first post... and just for the record she was due to go into a scale body and was flying in a scale manner. Was set up as it should be and not in 3 d mode as i cant do that stuff anyway so if a boom strike can happen in those circumstances that makes it even worse.

Quote 
You never mentioned anything of an e-mail in your original posting pertaining to K & B dampers. This was the point I was making. If you are looking for some company to accept all responsibility for the resultant crash of an in-flight failure please let me know.

Problems ? -- Mine are flown in fresh daily
03-20-2008 01:45 AM
 
 
10X
Senior Heliman
Location: Salisbury N.C.

I agree 100%, but on this thread your going to be wrong, i can tell you that right now. Most of these threads are looked over by Rep. pilots and they are not going to say anything negative, in fear of the free gravy train being taken away. But if you let one of them move to another brand they will tell all then. Look around through your books and even here on RR and listen to all the talk about how great something is, just to have the same person turn around a month later and tell you that this other product is better. I guess I would never make it as a Rep. because I like to tell it the way it is. Junk is junk and a problem is a problem and I'm not going to defend a companys issues with a product. Just to turn around and tell a different story for someone elses junk.

I would hate to know that I was in a position that I had to sugar coat everything I said, in fear of my little helicopter being taken away.
03-20-2008 02:07 AM
 
 
d-bledsoe
Veteran
Location: Kirkland WA

Im going to quickly chime in here.
Rotordisk i can more then understand the feelings you have with regards to the crash. I have had more then my fare share of bad dealings with previous heli manufacturers.

My first comment i want to make and this goes with any company making a product is that it states right in the manual in big letters they are not liable should any mishap take place. The reason this is said is not because a company doesn't care about its consumers but because there would be no way for proof to be shown whether a failure was a cause of the manufacturer or the end user. because of this it would be very easy for anyone that crashed even by there own fault to blame it on the manufacturer and request a replacement. In quick time this would become very costly for any company. dont take this personally or the wrong way.

Now in the regards to the details of your crash, out of the thousands of knight 3ds sold this is the first time i have heard of that bolt shearing during flight. When you built your kit did you tear down the head before flying or did you just leave it as is? I ask because even though a part is built it is always good practice to tear it down and do it yourself. if you did great, if you didn't it might have been possible to see the problem during assembly?

Would it be possible for you to take a few fotos for us to see the failure and the resulting damage, it may help us shed some light onto what actually happened instead of grasping at air.

If there is indeed a QC issue that needs to be looked into i will do my best to make it known, but that will be very hard to do with out some photographic help on your end.

I know it sucks, and will suck to hear this but it sounds like this is just a small case and you got the lucky or in this case the unlucky bird I want to help you get down to what cased the failure in this case.

-Derek Bledsoe
-Infina Models
-Compass Models
-Knight 50 3d carbon
03-20-2008 02:14 AM
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
ROTORDISK
New Heliman
Location: London uk

Quote 
I agree 100%, but on this thread your going to be wrong, i can tell you that right now. Most of these threads are looked over by Rep. pilots and they are not going to say anything negative, in fear of the free gravy train being taken away. But if you let one of them move to another brand they will tell all then. Look around through your books and even here on RR and listen to all the talk about how great something is, just to have the same person turn around a month later and tell you that this other product is better. I guess I would never make it as a Rep. because I like to tell it the way it is. Junk is junk and a problem is a problem and I'm not going to defend a companys issues with a product. Just to turn around and tell a different story for someone elses junk.

I would hate to know that I was in a position that I had to sugar coat everything I said, in fear of my little helicopter being taken away.

Oh your saying like if a guy flies for say compass then goes to maybe align? But what if he then goes back to compass? Oh yes i see what your saying.... But if i purchased a car that suffered a major failure the law would make them sort it out.. But this as you say wont happen here.. Sad but true very true.
03-20-2008 02:16 AM
 
 
ROTORDISK
New Heliman
Location: London uk

Hey Derek Thank you i would appreciate your help. I would never trust some half trained guy to build something properly in my job you need to know your stuff as in the aerospace industry there is only one way to do a job and thats the RIGHT WAY.
Quote 
Now in the regards to the details of your crash, out of the thousands of knight 3ds sold this is the first time i have heard of that bolt shearing during flight. When you built your kit did you tear down the head before flying or did you just leave it as is? I ask because even though a part is built it is always good practice to tear it down and do it yourself. if you did great, if you didn't it might have been possible to see the problem during assembly?
All the head parts where diss assembled and cleaned/ degreased then reassembled correctly. By me and not tightened to 1000 kg of torque.
As i said first off i am an engineer by trade so am fully conversant with torque stress and how to do the job properly.

With regards photographic evidence this i will do this evening to me thats thursday ok hope someone can help sort this out as i chose the 3d as it was lighter than anything else for the job in hand.
03-20-2008 02:25 AM
 
 
PatrickXtreme
Heliman
Location: Bangkok, Thailand

Rotordisk,

I would suggest you fly your Knight again, and see if the same thing happens. If yes, keep complaining Compass till you get your desireable answer. But if no, then you yourself know the answer.

What about this story; belt just torn apart in a normal flying, is it the company fault or what??? In my more than 10 years flying, I have seen every brand having this problem, and who? we to blame.

Patrick
03-20-2008 03:51 AM
 
 
raptor50luvver
Veteran
Location: southampton UK

I am afraid this sounds like one of those **** happens moments,i also have never heard of a Knight failing in this area.One bolt out of thousands made is just bad luck.I would also jump up and down and moan about it but thats life.As i said i have had a Raptor screw snap in the same area resulting in a crash although a light one and what do you think Amerang or Thunder Tiger would say if i complained to them about it?

With all due respect,how can you prove that bladegrip has not been stressed in a crash prior to this?

I have been extremely critical of Compass in the past having owned 3 of their early helis but the quality they are producing now is far far better than back then.Having said this,when i did have problems before,Climbout were more than happy to listen to me,its just at the time i was too angry to reason.
03-20-2008 10:00 AM
 
 
fr8brkr
Senior Heliman
Location: Asheville,NC

Rotordisk,

Assuming you are correct about the failure of the blade grip ball link bolt -- What do you consider reasonable for a reaction or resolution to the matter. If I'm to assume that based on your criteria for calling a helicopter a "pile of crap" solely based on isolated incident of a bolt failure - then it follows that EVERY manufacturers helicopter is also a
"pile of crap". These events of part failures some induced some not, are an everyday part of the RC world. Good luck with your next "pile of crap".

Problems ? -- Mine are flown in fresh daily
03-20-2008 04:31 PM
 
 
ROTORDISK
New Heliman
Location: London uk

fr8brkr
Maybe just maybe i am a little frustrated over this situation and
maybe just maybe my comment was a little sharp. However i still
feel that compass have let me down in so much as they have ignored
My email regarding what has happened. Mr Bledsoe and Mr Law are
Both interested in what has happened and i think maybe i will
have some however limited luck in resolving this issue. When this
chopper flew i cannot deny it was superb and very accurate went
where i pointed it. As it was for a scale heli. my first. I was
only ever going to fly her in a realistic manner so the pitch
etc where set for my needs and not barn door movements.
03-20-2008 05:08 PM
 
 
fr8brkr
Senior Heliman
Location: Asheville,NC

Resolving the issue? Would you like the bolt replaced ? Because short of having made your claim, I'm sure it will be noted and addressed at the supplier level and further attention to the specific metallurgical standards that apply. If you are seeking to have your helicopter replaced and if that were to happen then you will have set a precedent like no other has ever achieved !!

Problems ? -- Mine are flown in fresh daily
03-20-2008 05:40 PM
 
 
Rbush
Veteran
Location: Wales

Rotordisc, I feel your pain, BIG TIME !

I used to be a very proud Knight flyer (see my gallery!) until my tail blew apart at a flyin for all to see (total silver tail rotor hub failure, nobody told me the silver ones were bad )

I then flew Raptors again for a year, then bought another Knight pro. Two months after buying the model, I found out they were discontinuing the pro and only holding parts for the next 12 months or so

So I sold it and will NEVER go back to Knights (as much as I love the way they fly)

I have many issues with Compass's business model. I'm not sure they are any worse than anybody else, but they lost my money months ago, I'll never go back to them (not that they care)

Just buy the new JR Vibe 50 and move on

NOTE Compass and sponcered pilots, don't PM me over the above, I'm NOT interested in your opinions anymore !!!!

That was a silly place to put the ground !
03-20-2008 05:50 PM
 
 
ZR2Chevy22
Senior Heliman
Location: Galveston, TX USA

Hey I'm curious as to what headspeed you were running on your Knight 3D with the Yellow dampers.

I used the green K&B one's for 1 flight and yanked them out because they were too stiff. I got a hell of a vib at any headspeed below 1800. I'm curious as to what HS you were running.

Also what exactly were you doing as in flying before the boomstrike.

Andrew
03-20-2008 06:43 PM
 
 
epc2
Senior Heliman
Location: Miami , Fl./S.Dgo.

Quote 
Hey I'm curious as to what headspeed you were running on your Knight 3D with the Yellow dampers.

2050

Quote 
Also what exactly were you doing as in flying before the boomstrike.
TicTocs.

epc2.

Team My Wallet.
03-20-2008 09:41 PM
 
 
CJames
Key Veteran
Location: Back in KC

Quote 
Wish i'd stayed with raptors!

Myself, and I know many others have had issues with TT parts failing also with NO response from the company,

I had a freind whos x-cell fury exploded because of a bearing block issue, x-cell came out with a fix{upgrade part that cost} and he had to pay for all the broken parts himself.
It happens to EVERY brand out there.
Besides a raptor, I also had a hirobo shuttle blow up once, never did figure out why, not enough left to diagnose, hirobo covered Nothing of it.

They all have issues dude. It sucks, but it happens.

Bashing a company because they wont give you free parts because your heli crashed is lame.
It very likely could have been a faulty part, BUT it also could have been your fault! I am not saying it was, just that it could have been.

This is the hobby we have choosen.

If you aren't able to accept the fact that these things have over a thousand moving parts desperatly trying to get away from each other,
And that any heli we own can, may,
and probably will self-implode for any number of reasons beyond our control,

then you are in the wrong hobby.

"Looks like you've won this round, Gravity"
03-21-2008 12:56 AM
 
 
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Mikado Modellhubschrauber . GrandRC . CanoMod

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Compass Knight 50 > Wish i'd stayed with raptors!
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