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Main Discussion > Joke - but true
 
 
helicopter34
Veteran
Location: New Jersey, exit 82

Anyone hear about this... This is a true story. They arrested this pilot a while back because they told him to go through a metal detector and he said to them "Why would I have to go through, I don't need a gun to bring this plane down."
02-09-2002 Over year old.
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Buzzin Brian
Elite Veteran
Location: College Station, Texas

I hope you have your flame suit on, becouse you just might need it.
But on a more seriouse note, I am not surprised. You would have to be a little thick in the head to say something like that. Given the current events. Just my oppinion.
02-10-2002 Over year old.
 
 
Steve Campbell
Elite Veteran
Location: Baton Rouge, LA

Apparently it is IS true. One of my flying buddies is a long-time 727 captain. He was telling me about some of the incredibly moronic practices the "security" people at some airports are doing now; like everything short of a body cavity search. Moronic in that if the metal detectors and wands don't find it, it probably isn't a threat. And if you "fail' a test, you have to go to the end of the line and wait to be re-tested. That particular "rule" has caused a couple of fights, and in one instance an American Airlines pilot made the remark that he didn't need a gun to destroy his plane; he could just fly it into the ground. What he was trying to say, in a sarcastic manner that went high over the heads of the security guards, was that all these draconian measures could not prevent a determined person, given a complacent crew and passengers, from destroying or damaging a fragile airliner.

But he was arrested and fired. The news media has been playing down much of the heartburn and aggravation air travelers (and air crews) are going through these days. Not good for the economy, you know...

It would seem that, in typical federal fashion, the FAA and Home Security Gestapo are seriously over-reacting. Mind you, I don't know myself. But listening to two very experienced pilots ( I have another friend who flies MD-80s) say the same thing tends to make me believe it. Air crews in general are getting exasperated, because they are treated no differently than their passengers.

I can tell you this; I have talked with lots of folks who have air
traveled lately, and their comments have one common refrain; it was an incredible pain in the ass. In general, the same minimum-wage/minimum intelligence folks are running the scanners and wands; the same ones who let all kinds of stuff through routinely before 9-11-01. The government is throwing money at the problem; but not addressing a few of the major factors.


Whatever. Personally, I have decided that if I cannot drive there, I don't need to go. I will not subject myself to some of the incredible BS I've heard about in the past few months.

Steve
02-10-2002 Over year old.
 
 
Taipan
Key Veteran
Location: Sydney, Australia

Yeah, sounds like a whole lot of over-reactions to me. A while back in the paper, a Japanese man got frustrated of waiting in line & said "I hope this plane crashes" or something like that & got arrested.

There are notices around airports not to joke about bombs etc. & it is a federal offence to do that. Arresting people for for expressing their frustrations verbally is not on for cryin' out loud!
02-10-2002 Over year old.
 
 
helicopter34
Veteran
Location: New Jersey, exit 82

True

Yeah I know what you guys are saying. But I guess we have to understand their perspective. I don't know if the airline industry can afford another incedent like the few things that have been happening lately. True some people might get pissed, but if it was your decision, wouldn't you take the measures, that might piss people off, but take a few more precautions.

I know its pretty much unstoppable, if someone wants to blow up a plane, or at least take it down, they could do it, but its just one of those things in life, that you hate. Sometimes I feel the same ways in other areas of life, "were these laws put here just to harass the law abiding citizens?" Well some rules do allot more harassing of the innocent than stopping of the bad guys, but what are you gonna do, just 86 the annoying laws.

I know exactly what you are saying, my innitail reaction was, well if he wants to crash, he doesn't need a gun. But I guess they need the checks anyways. Its a little harder to slip 2 kamakazi pilots in than just one, so if at least one of the pilots is a good guy and notices the other dip the plane head first into the ground, he could stop him, but if the guy had a gun, it would be a little harder. I mean so many things in the lawful world are ass backwards most of the time, but if you really look at them, they are sorta neccessary.
02-10-2002 Over year old.
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steve9534
Key Veteran
Location: yakima, wa.

airport regs

I recently traveled to Puerto Rico and was on 4 different flights. I didn't find the airport screening oppressive, and I'm just as glad that the folks who make inane comments are screened out. There's no reason whatsoever to make comments like the ones mentioned above. Maybe throwing a few of those who do say such things in jail will be warning to those who are tempted to say such things in the future. You're correct in saying that the scanners will find most things, but the episode with the shoe bomber makes clear that the scanners don't catch everything. No system will eliminate every criminal, but starting with those who make threatening comments in the airports seems as good a place as any I can think of. Steve.
02-10-2002 Over year old.
 
 
Avropilot
Senior Heliman
Location: Nashville, Tennessee

I fly in the airline business.And the story here is absolutely true.It was sent out to us in a news letter by alpa (Air Line Pilots Assoc).The pilot making such a statement was fired for those remarks.I can on the other hand see his side of the story.The truth is We dont need a gun or weapon to thwart the flight of an aircraft do we?Its hard to explain but since 911 we (Airline Pilots)have been subjected to unbelievable security and profiling.Just think of your own position at work,how would you like to have your pockets gone thru,your purses searched , patted down, and then as if that werent enough have your shoes removed while you walk barefoot waiting for your shoes to be scanned?And all the while in front of the very people whoms lives depend on your decision making and skills.That isnt very proffesional is it?Should we be treated differently?Well who knows.I do know that should I want to take a plane down(this is all hypethetical here) I would not need a box knife now would I?
02-10-2002 Over year old.
 
 
MitchD
Senior Heliman
Location: Antioch TN USA

I learned something from a school I attended a few years ago:
There are more people on this planet named mohammed than john....
(this fact was used to convey a point in the class i attended)
Theres so much more to the whole 9/11 deal and events leading to it than anyone can imagine,airport security is a visual deterrent,sometimes,but think about where the dirtbags got theyre training........
the most effective security yet has been observant passengers,and better cockpit doors.........
They shouldn't have fired the pilot,after all it was low cost security,that let the #$%^& 's thru at Logan Airport to begin with
his comment may have been inapropriate but......
what really cracks me up is all the security companies trying to fill positions by telling new hires that they MAY qualify for the federal job openings w full benefits etc to get more cheap labor slots filled,and that really attracts freeloaders.....
Any other country in the world practically, theres armed personell/soldiers at the airports........
we still have "wackenhut" and the rest of the metal detector gang,STILL!( does barney fife bring up a better picture?)......
(sorry had to blow off some steam)bad subject
02-10-2002 Over year old.
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MitchD
Senior Heliman
Location: Antioch TN USA

avro you fly at peeler park??
02-10-2002 Over year old.
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Inspector Fuzz
Veteran
Location: Austin, TX. Where fat chicks succeed.

If I can't drive there......

Howdy!!!!!!
Ok, I've got my flame retardent clothing on... First let me say that I agree with Steve Campbell.. I will drive to where I need to go.. Not because of a fear of crashing, but because I refuse to "submit graciously" to a process that reduces me to the point of having to prove I am not a criminal.. Second ( and last) I will say that there is NO need for 95% of the security BS.. Let's face it, the guys doing this stuff are not Bhudists from Japan.. They are not Catholics from France... They are not Baptists from Memphis.. These guys look like Arabs, talk (sound) like Arabs, and practice Islam..These folks culture and religion had nothing to do with the founding or success of America. Yet, because of the "touchy feely liberalism" from the vile Clinton administration, we have thrown out racial profiling and forever doomed ourselves to being sitting ducks.. There, I said it, and I am glad I did....

Argue for your limitations and sure enough, they're yours
02-10-2002 Over year old.
 
 
Avropilot
Senior Heliman
Location: Nashville, Tennessee

I agree with you guys about driving to where you are going.As a matter of fact I live in Nashville but Based in Memphis,but instead of Flying to and from work I opt to drive.It is about a 3 1/2 hour drive.The sad thing is I can drive and get here faster than I can get thru security board a plane and fly here.Its pretty sad.
The problems the pilots have with security is that we seem to be singled out thru some unritten rule.Rumor has it that one of the hijackers was disguised a pilot and that he occupied the jumpseat (for those who dont know the jumpseat is a fold down seat located within the confines of the "accual"cockpit for commuting pilots to and from work).Due to these circumstances we seem to be singled out.Now with that said I will say that I do not mind being randomly selected to having my bags searched at the gate,the reason I dont is becuase I usualy have about 30 staring passengers watching. If I stand there like a gentleman and cooperate it looks much more proffesional than standing there complaining about it.I usualy talk to the other passengers and tell them that this happens to me all the time and I dont mind.Somehow this seems to rub off on them and they cooperate more willingly too.Is this part of the whole major plan?Who knows.
Finally I will tell you this.My company recently had a pilot at IND (Indianappolis)Going thru the screener,He beeped and kept making the scanner go off, until he had on nothing but a T-Shirt,pants,socks he went thru again but still the alarm on the scanner sounded.So he went back out and when he came back thru he was in his underwear Well needless to say he is unemployed at the moment But we all knew it would eventually happen.That is a true story
02-10-2002 Over year old.
 
 
Avropilot
Senior Heliman
Location: Nashville, Tennessee

Ohh sorry Mitch.I used to fly there but havent in a while.Maybe we can get together and fly sometime?
02-10-2002 Over year old.
 
 
ronlund
Senior Heliman
Location: Corpus Christi, TX

If I were planning to do something on a commercial airliner, and I knew that pilots could breeze through security, I think I'd dress up like a pilot.

I just went through the rigors of flying to Las Vegas and back. I stood in line for 50 minutes on the return trip. The line wound around a large opening to the floor below. The worst part about it was, on the floor below, they had a large video screen and some equally large speakers playing a Dupont Stainmaster commercial over and over. It's the one with the baby screaming at the top of his lungs. The acoustics in the terminal didn't help either. By the time I got to the security checkpoint my hair was standing on end!

Aircrews, don't have to stand in those lines. They do have to go through the same security though. Nothing wrong with that. It's the line that's the pain in the rear. I don't blame the airlines for insisting that the crew members maintain a professional image. Consider the alternative.

One poster said something about other countries having soldiers in the airports. Evidently he hasn't been in an airline terminal lately. There are soldiers...with automatic weapons... posted at every security checkpoint. They get some puzzled looks from people.

All in all, I think since 9/11, the people that will keep that tragedy from repeating are the passengers themselves. A hijacker with a box knife, or even a machine gun won't ever be able to take over a plane again.

Ron
02-10-2002 Over year old.
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Kryoclasm
Heliman
Location: Albuquerque, NM

Those ideas about being passive will save you @ss won't cut-it anymore. I think if somebody does anything weird or out of the normal, they are gonna get sacked! I'd rather get stabbed while tackling some nutso, than to have 200-300 folks needlessly end-up with a bad case of rock posioning.
02-11-2002 Over year old.
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shamoo
Senior Heliman
Location: Springfield, Missouri

Flying

I dont think any of you understand the magnitude of 9-11-01 if you did you wouldnt complain about flying and im sorry if i make anybody mad here it is not my intention im just speaking out load

Now you say what gives him the right to speak like that too us well here it is I'am a professional firefighter and have been for 16 years. yes i chose this profession not to be a hero but because its what i want to do. I watched in horro as my brother/sister firefighters gave there life for you the public. I have never seen such emotion come out that day from grown men and women of the fire services What you the public dont know is the aftermath of that tragic event even today. we have a training channel at the station and they have been following the clean up and recovery of victims and firefighters these people that have experienced it every day since that date are the true heros they are the ones that we should think about and remember while your waiting in that longline at the airport, and realize that we are not perfect and we all make mistakes and so will the airlines but REMEMBER 9-11-01 FOREVER IN OUR HEARTS


And agin sorry if Imade anyone mad this is just my 2 cents
02-11-2002 Over year old.
 
 
Dragon2115
Key Veteran
Location: New England

The pilot in question shouldn't have been fired. He was exasperated and made what amounted to a simple statement of fact. Think Egyptian Airlines Flight 900 where one of the pilots had a death wish.

I don't think the aircrew should go through the same security screening as the passengers either. A pilot could have a gun people wail. Like a pilot is going to go off his rocker and decide to come back and kill 15 or so passengers with a handgun rather than nose diving the entire plane. I say GOOD, I hope the pilot and copilot do have guns. And I hope the flight attendants have Tazers too. I expect any pilot or copilot to shoot anybody that makes it past the flight attendants, the passengers, and the cockpit door! For any reason. I expect the aircrew to be able to defend the aircraft against anything but the most well planned and organized efforts to take over the plane.

And as for military personel in airports with automatic weapons, please, terroists don't try to take over the freaking airport. A couple of state troopers inside the security point is more than enough. Other than that it's all show to placate the nervous herd animals and no tangible benefits.

As for people being arrested for saying something inappropriate, please, have we suddenly turned into the former Soviet Union? Grow up!!! That is what seperates us from a lot of other countries in this world. In this country saying something isn't an arrestable offense unless there is credible intent to commit harm. Once we have done away with that (which is getting closer every day apparently) we have lost one of our basic fundamental freedoms that this country was founded on. And another thing, once this kind of thing gets started, where does it end? How much more will be determined as "arrestable" speech? If someone makes a comment like that in an airport while standing in line, fine, search them a little more carefully to make sure it was nothing more than an inappropriate comment. Beyond that and we're just flushing our civil liberties down the drain which means the terrorists have won a far greater victory than they could have ever dreamed of because they've made us a little more like the hellholes they come from.

I leave you all with a little something to think about.

"One of the amendments to the Constitution... expressly declares that 'Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof, or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press,' thereby guarding in the same sentence and under the same words, the freedom of religion, of speech, and of the press; insomuch that whatever violates either throws down the sanctuary which covers the others." --Thomas Jefferson: Draft Kentucky Resolutions, 1798. ME 17:382

[Emphasis Added]

And yes, I do have my Nomex on.
02-11-2002 Over year old.
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The_Dave
Veteran
Location: Las Vegas, Nevada

Clueless

Frist off let me say, shamoo, that I fully understand the impact of 911. The real question is do you? I have traveled the world in support of our armed forces, have conducted ops in live war zones and have lost friends in far away places just so you can have the right to say what you want.

Secondly,Dragon2115, that pilot should have been fired. Not because he stated a fact (is it not painfull obvious that the guy flying the plane could point it where ever he wanted???) but because he lacks the intellegence not to say stupid things. Personally, if he is not smart enough to keep his mouth shut about such things in these extra sensitive times I would rather his dumb ass not be in control of anything I am flying on! Futhermore, as a federal license holder as well as a badged crew member he has been trained on security proceedures and I know for a fact that they warn against this type of behavior. Frankly, it would have been irresposible for the airline not to fire him. Remember, he as a uniformed crew member repersents the carrier he works for and it is an employers right to fire a person when they put that company in a bad public light. The Constitution does not guarantee stupid people the right to a job so while you are defending this nit wit ask yourself this question, how would you feel if you were the next person in line and they just let this guy pass after saying something like that. Would you want him flying you around? Get a clue!



Now more on point, as a mechanic for a Major, I either currently hold or have held ramp access security clearance for every major metropolitan airport in this country as well as several foriegn airports. Getting clearance is a pain in the rear so if you think that we just get to cruise through security, think again. My wife, a flight crew member will tell you that just because they don't wait in the same lines as passengers, they do have check points they have to pass.

Now that you are all relieved that everyone is being checked and all is secure know this: AIRPORT SECURITY IS A JOKE! Short of a few international airports, I could gain access to the secured area in about 5 minutes if I wanted to (I don't and frankly could care less about being on an airport). Anyone who really wanted to access a airport or even a comerical airliner could get it done if they are smart enough.

Bottom line is now is the time for us Americans to stand up and take care of ourselves. When someone on your flight is getting out of control do something about it. Don't be a politically correct pussy and look the other way while a 115 pound flight attendant deals with the 200 pound drunk or worse yet the terrorist that intends to kill everyone one the flight.

So next time something is not right or a person or persons are putting you and others in harms way Sound off like you have a pair!

No flame suite needed.

Mark McAlpine - 2005 - We will never forget.
02-11-2002 Over year old.
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shamoo
Senior Heliman
Location: Springfield, Missouri

911 reply

The_Dave
i too have served my time in the military ,however i didn't see what you have seen, but then again you probably haven't been into a burning building and pulled out a 5 yr old that is chared and seen a fellow Firefighter come out of a burning building on fire and spend time in the burn unit (6 months or longer) and then was not able to return to work, just for JOE PUBLIC.....It is our job to do so. And yes i do know that the military are there, who put their life on the line everyday just like i do, and do respect them and thank them too. In fact one of my brother fire fighters got the call to serve in Afgahanstan about 3 months ago. I do and always will understand the impact of 9-11-01 for it has effected me, my family and my fellow firefighters and the people of the US.
And The_Dave thank you for your tour of duty in military and yes you are right, you guys are the reason why we have freedom of speech...

Thanks
Jon
02-12-2002 Over year old.
 
 
Rotor
Key Veteran
Location: USA

What was the original post here about, a mistaken rc plane crashing wasn't it?

My motto is this..Fly...Rebuild...Fly
02-12-2002 Over year old.
 
 
Dragon2115
Key Veteran
Location: New England

Quote 
"that pilot should have been fired. Not because he stated a fact (is it not painfull obvious that the guy flying the plane could point it where ever he wanted???) but because he lacks the intellegence not to say stupid things. Personally, if he is not smart enough to keep his mouth shut about such things in these extra sensitive times I would rather his dumb ass not be in control of anything I am flying on!"


Oh really...

Quote 
"Short of a few international airports, I could gain access to the secured area in about 5 minutes if I wanted to..."


Congratulations, you lack the same intelligence as the pilot you just got done ranting to me about. Feel free to turn yourself into the nearest authorities since by your own statement, and on a public forum I might add, you are just as much of a threat to airport security as he was!

So how's it feel Dave? You just fell into the exact same trap that this pilot did. You shot your mouth off without thinking and made a statement that under todays "proactive" security could be interpretted as a threat if taken out of context. Shouldn't you be fired and arrested too? See how easy that was? That's why I say this has to be handled with a lot more reason.

You seem like you mean well Dave but it can happen to you just as easily as it did to that pilot. One second of anger and a simple comment and, bang, you're out of a job and behind bars.

Did you really fight for this country so it could turn into that?
02-12-2002 Over year old.
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