rrTV-PHOTO   New HD TV
HOME   rrTV-PHOTO   GALLERIES   MY GALLERY   HELP-FAQ
myHOME PM pmRR MEMBERS 813 ONLINE 73 EVENTS SEARCH REGISTER  START HERE
 
1 page1085 viewsPOST REPLY
CarbonXtreme . Midland Helicopters . HeliProz

.
.
Safety - RC Helis are not toys > Metal Blades on Helis
 
 
Airwolf crazy
Senior Heliman
Location: Lancaster, PA

Greetings,

I see that companies like Vario sell metal blades for there large scale models. Here in the USA we cannot use the metal blades according to the AMA rules.

I have heard that this is a rule that rolled over from the airplane side of the hobby. If this is so why? If not, why?

If companies offer the metal blades then they are allowed in some places. What has prompted the AMA to not let us use metal blades? What advantages do these blades have over figerglass/ carbon fiber? What disadvantages do these blades have compared to figerglass/ carbon fiber? If other groups can use metal blades has anyone ever tried to get the AMA to allow our helis use them?

Thanks,
Christopher
03-14-2008 08:18 PM
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
SLC
Senior Heliman
Location: Johnson City, Tn

Some of the people in the posts on this forum with deep cuts on there arms, legs and face would have limbs missing or be dead if they were using metal blades. Anyone thats used carbon fiber blades know there stronger than wood but they will break. Im just guessing but if the AMA did endorse using metal blades your AMA membership would cost more to cover the damage metal blades would cause.
03-16-2008 02:14 AM
 
 
BigguyOz
Veteran
Location: Sydney, New South Wales, Australia

It is my guess that the metal blade prohibition was created when metal blades were the strongest you could fit. I suspect that if the rule was revisited, either carbon would be added to the banned list, or else metal removed (for being unnecessarily "picked on". But let's face it, ANY heli blade can be a vicious weapon.....

Tony Stott
Scenefromabove.com.au
Trex 450,AP2000i,Askman
8m mast
hot air balloon
kite
03-16-2008 05:15 AM
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
Invrted1
Veteran
Location: Cincinnati, Ohio

The metal we are thinking of here would be aluminum, and I think the carbon might be stronger.
03-16-2008 05:28 AM
 
 
human213
Senior Heliman
Location: malibu

There is no data of any kind

anywhere that provides any evidence of metal blades of aluminum

posing more risk than carbon, and substantial amounts to the

contrary.

Lack of shrapnel for one...

They are used preferentially in germany.



michael

Not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts can be counted.
03-17-2008 10:20 AM
 
 
wlfk
Veteran
Location: uk

I would imagine that avoiding ferrous metals of all kinds would make sense though.

K

A bit like a kite, but 500 times more expensive
03-17-2008 12:15 PM
 
 
BigguyOz
Veteran
Location: Sydney, New South Wales, Australia

Interesting. What is the disadvantage of ferrous blades compared to aluminium? (for example)

Tony Stott
Scenefromabove.com.au
Trex 450,AP2000i,Askman
8m mast
hot air balloon
kite
03-17-2008 12:20 PM
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
dazzaster
Veteran
Location: right next door to hell

metal blades are also not permitted here in the uk (under bmfa rules)
personaly i think aluminuim blades would be a lot safer to use than carbon fibre. sure they both will do the same amount of damage on impact but with carbon fibre whos going to spend all that time makeing sure every splinter is out of you?

my wife is going to leave me for my best mate if i keep flying helis!.......shame ill miss him
03-17-2008 05:05 PM
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
j.8
Senior Heliman
Location: Denmark

Hi all

Well carbon blades are alsolutly dangerous,
I had a crash where the tip ( 10 cm/4" )
flew about 80- 100 meters/ 260-330 feet away
from.. well the crashsite.

Regards Bo
03-17-2008 06:15 PM
 
 
Invrted1
Veteran
Location: Cincinnati, Ohio

I heard about a new material that involves many layers of aluminum and fiberglass that is stronger and lighter that either alone. The Airbus A380 skin is made of this. I wonder if someday our blades could be made of this.
03-18-2008 02:56 AM
 
 
helimatt
Key Veteran
Location: Lafayette, IN

To open up another can of worms: aluminum may be susceptible to corrosion, particularly on the inside (hollow blade) skin and spars, where undetected it may lead to catastrophic failure. Full-sized blades and airframes are regularly inspected and retired after a certain number of cycles/hours in service to avoid corrosion and corrosion-induced fatigue failure.

That would be a significant concern for aluminum blades, particularly if they are around for a few seasons.

Carbon fiber is not so prone to corrosion, but could deteriorate too (especially the matrix breaking down due to UV exposure or heat).

Never, ever, ever, ever give up.
03-18-2008 07:28 PM
 
 
Airwolf crazy
Senior Heliman
Location: Lancaster, PA

Quote 
corrosion-induced fatigue failure.

That would be a significant concern for aluminum blades, particularly if they are around for a few seasons.

Carbon fiber is not so prone to corrosion, but could deteriorate too (especially the matrix breaking down due to UV exposure or heat).

Now this is something I had not though about at all, even for fiberglass blades. I have broken a few bladed and at least the Vario blades have a foam core. in them. What about other fiberglass/ Carbon fiber blades.

I assume that extruding a solid Al blade would be too heavy. How are these blades made? Anyone have a cross section of one?

Christopher
03-19-2008 12:46 PM
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
wlfk
Veteran
Location: uk

Quote 
Interesting. What is the disadvantage of ferrous blades compared to aluminium? (for example)


I have to admit a large degree of ignorance about the exact reasons, and perhaps there are some ferrous metals that are relatively innocuous. But at the local metal supermarket they're quite jumpy about how they store ferrous metals, whereas they don't worry nearly as much about aluminium. When I asked why, they told me that if a sheet of ferrous metal fell on you it would be very likely to slice you up badly, whereas aluminium is much less likely to do this.

I can think of a number of reasons why this might be so: iron/steel are denser and hold a cutting edge much better than aluminium.

I'm feeling somewhat silly for having made the original post, given that my understanding of the issue is lacking. But as a thought experiment ask yourself how often you have cut yourself unwrapping aluminium foil. Now imagine steel foil of the same thickness... My intuition is that you would be quite likely to cut yourself on it.

There are plenty of engineering types on the forum. Perhaps some of you might have a better handle on why ferrous metals have to be stored more cautiously than non-ferrous metals.

K

A bit like a kite, but 500 times more expensive
03-19-2008 03:10 PM
 
 
Ecklund1
New Heliman
Location: Brier, Washington

Simply, ferrous metals contain Iron. (If a magnet sticks, it's ferrous.) Iron exposed to Oxygen produces rust rather quickly. To metals traders, Iron sells, rust doesn't. Sometimes you may see coils (big rolls) of shiny aluminum being shipped on a flatbed semi going down the highway. Steel coils are usually always tarped for protection.
Non-ferrous metals (like aluminum) and many other alloys also oxidize or corrode, but not as fast in day to day conditions.
Aluminum is an ideal material for rotor blades (1:1), but I wouldn't want them on my model. Not with the plastics that are available. And yes, they are inspected regularly.
Steel would never be considered for rotor blade material.

Well, unless of course they were razor sharpened and shaped like Katana's!
MooHaha!

AMA 826950
03-20-2008 09:04 AM
 
 
wlfk
Veteran
Location: uk

All the metals were being stored within the same warehouse, side by side, so I don't think they were treating them differently from a corrosion perspective.

K

A bit like a kite, but 500 times more expensive
03-20-2008 11:22 AM
 
 
dazzaster
Veteran
Location: right next door to hell

i cant see a problem with corrosion or fractures, ive seen plenty of aircraft made of aluminuim sit outside in fields for years and then taken out once in a while, any one with a cesna 150 will know how impossible it would be to check the inside of the wing for damage/corrosion

my wife is going to leave me for my best mate if i keep flying helis!.......shame ill miss him
03-20-2008 12:53 PM
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
helimatt
Key Veteran
Location: Lafayette, IN

I own a Cessna 172. You can in fact inspect inside the wings for corrosion and must at every annual inspection. There are corrosion-inhibitors applied to the inside of the airframe at manufacture, and others that can be applied as a maintenance item to help prevent corrosion (Corrosion-X is one brand). Airframe corrosion is a real concern, particularly in areas near bodies of salt water, or industrial pollution. They store military and commercial aircraft in dry desert enviroments for many years with little airframe deterioration because you need moisture to being the corrosion process in the aluminum surface. Most airframe sheet material is Alclad which has a thin layer of nearly pure aluminum bonded to it- the pure stuff is very corrosion resistant, but the stronger alloys which make up the bulk of the thickness are more prone to corrosion. At seams and rivet holes you don't have the cladding.

Older Beechcraft Bonanzas have known and potenially serious issues with corrosion failures on key structural components, so having one of those old beauties requires special care and probably expensive replacement.

Aluminum rotor blades on some (many?) full-sized helicopters are retired for cause after a given number of hours due, in part, to possiblity of corrosion-induced fatigue.

Never, ever, ever, ever give up.
03-26-2008 02:41 PM
 
 
SLC
Senior Heliman
Location: Johnson City, Tn

Edited ! To much beer when I posted last remark
03-29-2008 04:33 AM
 
 
1 page1085 viewsPOST REPLY
ZoomsHobbies . HeliHobby . Ron’s HeliProz South

.
.
Safety - RC Helis are not toys > Metal Blades on Helis
  UPDATE SCREEN   PRINT TOPIC Advertisers 

Subscribe to This Topic

Tuesday, May 13 - 12:08 am - Copyright © 2000 - 2008 runryder.com | email | link to rr | runryder needs cookie