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HeliHobby . Ron’s HeliProz South . Century Helicopter

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Blitz Helicopters Avro 90 > Avro 90 Ordered!
 
 
Jim Mahoney
Senior Heliman
Location: San Jose, CA U.S.A.

Hello All,

Will it didn't take long - I placed my order for the Avro 90!

For some time I have agonized over what heli to use for F3C, I looked long and hard at the Vibe 90 but I never made the final decision But once I started looking into the Avro 90, will the deal was done!

I am going to take a week's vacation once I receive the kit and build it, I want a full week to get out to the field and start flying this machine.

happy Flying,
Cherokee Jim Mahoney
03-13-2008 08:57 PM
 
 
Jim Mahoney
Senior Heliman
Location: San Jose, CA U.S.A.

Hello again All,

I will use:

a YS61ST2 for power with a YS91 as a backup just in case.

Muffler/Pipe Muscle Pipe if I can still get one for the YS61ST2

A Curtis Youngblood Gyro

A Curtis Youngblood ATG

Multiplex MC4000 converted to 2.4 GHz

Servos - Still Thinking, But JR for everything but Tail Rotor where I want to use the Futaba Brushless.

Power System - Own Design

Main Blades - Still Thinking - Radix if one is suitable for FAI

Tail Blades - Still Thinking


Happy Flying,
Cherokee Jim Mahoney
03-13-2008 09:09 PM
 
 
Bond007
Senior Heliman
Location: Leicestershire UK

Jim

1. Go with the Stable/FAI setup in the manual

2. YS61 Why when you have a YS91 to use and the Avro gearing was designed for this engine.

3. Radix 105mm tail blades.

They go together as good as they look

Enjoy

Blitz Avro, Trex 500
03-13-2008 09:26 PM
 
 
Jim Mahoney
Senior Heliman
Location: San Jose, CA U.S.A.

YS6161ST2?

Will for the type of flying I am going to I thought the 61 would do the job. And I have 6 new YS61s.

Quote 
2. YS61 Why when you have a YS91 to use and the Avro gearing was designed for this engine.

Now the gearing, I wanted to see if the ration as is would work with the engine/blade combination, maybe 680s for main and 90s for tail.

Maybe I will start with the YS91 Standard to set a reference to judge by.

Also since I think the 61 has enough power for my style of flying I could get more flying for the same amount of fuel.

Thanks,
Cherokee Jim Mahoney
03-13-2008 09:50 PM
 
 
Bond007
Senior Heliman
Location: Leicestershire UK

The model was designed for a 90. They spent 4 years testing and developing it before release. Use a 60 size at your peril, and I'd be inclined to contact the US distributor or Blitz direct to check on this before doing it.

If your worried about saving on fuel, or getting longer flight times, then maybe you should have bought a 60 size heli, and not a 90.

You can set up the heli for all types of flying, but nowhere does it state to use any engines other than 90 size.

I'm getting between 12 and 14 minutes per tank. I need a break after that

90mm's on the tails, IMO, would be too small. After 4 years of development, Radix 105's where found to be the best for this heli.

Enjoy the build and Good luck

Blitz Avro, Trex 500
03-13-2008 11:12 PM
 
 
Jim Mahoney
Senior Heliman
Location: San Jose, CA U.S.A.

YS90s it is then

Thanks for the info,

I did write to Blitz on the engine selection so it will be interesting to hear their take. My thoughts were that for 3D one would surely want to use a 90 but for FAI training one might get away with a YS61, they are very smooth and nice running engines and not too bad on power output. I hear that OS might be coming out with .57, so if one is going to use a .57 then might as well use a 60?

I have a Standard YS91 ready to go so that is what I will start with.

Are you using the long stroke YS or the Standard YS 90?

Thanks,
Happy Flying,
Cherokee Jim Mahoney
03-14-2008 12:36 AM
 
 
Droid
Elite Veteran
Location: Deep down in the Southwest- UK

Quote 
I hear that OS might be coming out with .57, so if one is going to use a .57 then might as well use a 60?

Difference is Jim that the OS will be designed to fit in the same crankcase dimensions as a 46/50. ie more power in a 50 sized model, not the otherway round!!

I can imagine that the YS80 would be a good choice for your style, but i do think that the YS60 maybe a little gutless. All depends on headspeed if you keep it low enough fuel won't be a consideration anyway....

YS91ST all the way.....
03-14-2008 09:27 AM
 
 
Matutu
Heliman
Location: Torquay - United Kingdom

People use both. You can order the ST version from Blitz direct, so they must recommend this model.

Personally i use the LS version and runs smooth with lots of power.

I agree with Bond, I would stick to 90 Engines, this bird has been built, designed, tested then flown by many people all thoughout the world. Why change a working method i say

Matutu
03-14-2008 09:28 AM
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
MattJen
Elite Veteran
Location: UK,Gravesend, Kent

Blitz also have the YS91SR in, and their prices are very good,
I got one and i have to say the power of this engine is very good..

Loops are bigger and it just seems to have the grunt for fast run up into the Aero's.

As prev posters have said, this machine was designed around a 90 size engine, the gearing reflects this...

It is a lovely smooth machine that has a lot of power...

You have chosen a good setup for F3C type of flying.

Matt

I bought mymother in law a chair for xmas, but she would not plug it in.
03-14-2008 10:26 AM
 
 
Climax
Senior Heliman
Location: West London, United Kingdom

I used to have a Fury Extreme that was fitted with a YS80, one that I brought way back before the YS90 was available. Anyway, the 80 is a good motor but I didn’t find it to be as smooth as the 90.

I’ve got a YS90 in my Avro and it’s fantastic. Once you get used to the machine, which doesn’t take long due to it impeccable manners, you’ll love the smooth power that this motor produces!
03-14-2008 10:37 AM
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
Jim Mahoney
Senior Heliman
Location: San Jose, CA U.S.A.

Ok All,

Looks like I will order a YS91 LS in addition to my std YS91. I may still try the YS61 later just to experiment - I am addicted to experimenting!

Since I going F3C I would stay with a head speed of around 1750 ~ 1850, but again I will have to find what is right for me and my style.

One thing that I like already is there is nothing negative in the Blitz post - just a lot of folks sharing information and enthusiasm!

Happy Flying,
Cherokee Jim Mahoney
03-14-2008 01:56 PM
 
 
Bond007
Senior Heliman
Location: Leicestershire UK

I'm using the long stroke version YS91SR

It's a monster

Blitz Avro, Trex 500
03-14-2008 02:58 PM
 
 
Jim Mahoney
Senior Heliman
Location: San Jose, CA U.S.A.

YS61ST2 - YSST4

Hello All,

The Folks at Blitz sent me an email telling me that they did their initial development using an OS61 and that it flew very nicely with said engine. Also there would be no problem using an ST2. They will look into offering a gear and belt set. After it has already been tested and it would be a very simple way to expand the usage envelope of the Avro 90. Not everybody needs a 91 engine if the 61 class is very usable. I know the 3D folks will want all the horse power of the best 91 but some will get along very well with a 61 engine.

What is considered the optimum Gear Ratio for the following engines:

YS61ST2
YS91ST4
YS91 Long Stroke
OS61 WC

I will build the Avro 90 and use my YS91 to set a reference point to test against. I will buy the extra parts needed so each engine will have its own clutch and fan making engine changes easy.

My kit is due to be shipped from the UK tomorrow!

So far I will use Curtis's 105mm Tail blades, I am still deciding on Main Blades - Curtis's FAI Main Blades are still in testing and I don't know if he will have the right size for my YS61, I will use the 91 size blades, I think they are 720mm?

Servos either JR DS8231 or DS8311, Tail Rotor Servo still thinking, how are the Futaba Brushless servos ?

Throttle Servo JR DS8231 or 8417.

Paddles - SAB 30g FAI or find something at 50g.

Gyro Curtis Youngblood Solid G

Throttle Gov. Curtis Youngblood ATG

Looks like I will finally start using 30% Nitro. If it gives a smoother engine run.

Happy Flying,
Cherokee Jim Mahoney
03-20-2008 02:50 AM
 
 
kirk
Veteran
Location: Thornton, Colorado

Jim,

Set up looks good. IMHO here is what I think...

What is considered the optimum Gear Ratio for the following engines:

YS61ST2 - 9.3:1
YS91ST4 -8.45:1
YS91 Long Stroke 8.18:1 or 8.04:1
OS61 WC - 9.3:1

Servos either JR DS8231 or DS8311.

I would use the 8311's due to the metal output gear. The Avro uses mixers to the swash that have a mixing ratio greater than 1:1 (like the BW stratus just came out with) which can put a greater load on the servo. Doubt you would strip out plastic gears in a 8231 but why risk it??

The rest of you equiptment looks good. For throttle I would use the faster servo, and you did not mention how you plan to power all of the electronics which could also have an effect on what you use...

I think in the end you will like the 90 size engines the best. With the lower gear ratios you do not spin the motor as fast so you get a machine that is smoother and sounds better. You also have tons of power if and when you need it. Mine has a YS91 SR in it with a SB-19 which has a very nice and smooth sound to it...

Can't wait to hear what you think when it arrives

Kirk
03-20-2008 08:42 AM
 
 
alfred
Senior Heliman
Location: Australia, New South Wales, Mid North Coast

2 suggestions
First, I don't have an Avro but might have to consider one in the future.

I would highly recommend if you ever get a chance to try some TG Main blades. 220gr 690 FAI blades which beat my V2 blades hands down when it comes to FAI style flying. They still do mild 3D all day long, but their autorotation performance is unbeaten.

Next, over here, we use 20% Nitro on all our engines, OS, YS, TT all the way from 30 ~ 91 size engines. It's more then enough for 98% 3D flying when you look at our top pilots and far more then ever required for FAI.

20% Nitro will let you use all the common mufflers like MP's Hatories etc. It gives you the ease of tuning that comes with higher Nitro but longer flight times and a lot easier on the wallet.
Try 20% 1st and if you still feel that you need more then that try 30%. But considering your previous posts and your less then absolute top HP power requirements, I doubt that you will need more then 20%.
03-20-2008 12:28 PM
 
 
Jim Mahoney
Senior Heliman
Location: San Jose, CA U.S.A.

Avro 90 Info

Hello Kirk and Alfred,

Hey guys thanks for the info!

I will order three 8311s this morning. Still thinking on which faster servo to use on the throttle.

I have a feeling that some would tend to pick any cheap servo to use for throttle, it doesn't need torque ---- but it does need to be faster than the collective servo(s), have good resolution, be consistent, and be able withstand high frequency vibrations - It is connected directly to the engine - the highest frequency source on our helicopters. Besides the combination of collective servos and the throttle servo is a big factor in determining how smooth our collective response will be - smoothly working linkages and Brain to thumb control link being some other factors of note.

In one of his Videos Curtis Youngblood talks about using a 8417 on his throttle, I think I remember him saying that after using the 8417 on tail rotor for a while he rotates his servo from tail rotor control to throttle.

Now that we are beginning to see Brushless servo motors the Next Great Step will be Contactless Feedback Pots - using Hall or Magnetorestrictive sensors.

Alfred who makes and who sells the 220gr 690 FAI TG Main blades? I hope they are sold here in the USA.

Thanks for the information,

Happy Flying,
Cherokee Jim Mahoney
03-20-2008 04:57 PM
 
 
RCHelicopterGuy
Veteran
Location: Michigan

Jim,

As per our conversations earlier, it would appear that the Radix FAI blades are on hold until further notice. I heard scuttlebutt that a redesign is in the works. You'll want to call CJY Enterprises and ask them directly.

You have the benefit of being next door to the source of one of the best FAI blades in the world - RotorTech 720's. Century part no. CN267201. $119.95 sale price. 200g is a popular weight. Get a pair. You won't be sorry. There's a reason why the overwhelming majority of F3C pilots at the U.S. Nationals use RT's. They're GOOD.

Can people even buy 60-size engines anymore? I have a new O.S. 61 SX-H WC that's never seen a drop of fuel. I doubt I'll ever use it. If anyone's interested, we can talk.
03-20-2008 05:45 PM
 
 
Jim Mahoney
Senior Heliman
Location: San Jose, CA U.S.A.

Blades & OS61WC

Hello RC-Helicopter Guy,

I will send out the connector parts tomorrow or Mon. - FedEx.

On the Blades you do have a point - Must be a reason. I take it these are for a 91 engine?

PM me what you are thinking about on the OS engine, I am mostly into YS though.

Happy Flying,
Cherokee Jim Mahoney
03-20-2008 06:38 PM
 
 
Jim Mahoney
Senior Heliman
Location: San Jose, CA U.S.A.

Xtreme Powersystems for Multiplex MC4000

Hello All,

I ordered the Xtreme Power Systems 2.4GHz Combo TX Module, 10-Channel Receiver and the Programming Module to Upgrade my Multiplex MC4000 Radios to 2.4GHz. I have two of these radios and I am happy that the 2.4GHz Age will not pass them by. These radios are the most programmable radios made! Now if Multiplex had retained the programmability of the MC4000 in their EVO radios they would have had a perfect radio. A TX Module and receiver are available for the EVO also.

Check them out at :

http://www.xtremepowersystems.net/

The PC software has some nice features, like being looking at transmitted signals for your hardware, a 2.4GHz Spectrum Analyzer, etc. You can see all at their website.

For the following be sure to check the WebSite for the most Current Information!

TXDIAG.EXE

This program acts as a virtual receiver, letting you see the output of your transmitter. The signal strength is also shown.




RXDIAG.EXE

This program acts as a virtual transmitter, letting you control your receiver.



ANALYZER.EXE

This program is a real time 2.4GHz spectrum analyzer.



So now I just have to decide on what Tail Rotor Servo I will use.

Happy Flying,
Cherokee Jim Mahoney
03-21-2008 04:10 PM
 
 
Jim Mahoney
Senior Heliman
Location: San Jose, CA U.S.A.

Power System

Kirk I will use my own power system, 4.8V/12A. Although my first flights will be with just a 4-Cell 2400mAH Nicad battery. Charge between flights use Heavy duty switch and wiring.

Happy Flying,
Cherokee Jim Mahoney
03-21-2008 04:40 PM
 
 
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MTA Hobbies . Model Rectifier Corp . PowerHelis

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Blitz Helicopters Avro 90 > Avro 90 Ordered!
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