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Boca Bearings . Modefo's RC Helicopters . XHELI.COM

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QuickWorldWide Ep and Wet Fuel Helis > The Bat 50 build and review
 
 
snobdrs
Senior Heliman
Location: coatesville,pa-usa

I picked up my Bat 50 Pro kit over the weekend. This is kit #1 and i will be the first to build one from the instructions. The only change from The Bat 50 Pro is I went with the Upgraded Tail unit. I think this is the one that will be used on the 70 and up. Its just a nice looking piece and had to have one. See pic.
I got home and unpacked the kit. Sub assemblys seem to be organized whith each in its own bag. Screws and small hardware come in a little plastic case which is a nice touch. Much better IMO than having them in each bag waiting to take off as soon as you dump it out.
I did a quick look through of the bags. First i wanted to see if my Head block had opened or closed bearings as Eury had open bearings in his. Mine have the closed bearings so that problem has been fixed on this kit. I also inspected the machine work and finish. I dont have any complaints here. I just may not be a critical on this point as Eury. I thought it to be compairable to the maching on other helis i have (align, jr).
I unpacked the carbon parts and inspected. Very nice IMO. Cuts where nice and clean. Holes were clear and round. I also thought the engraved bat was a nice addition along with the QWW cutouts on a few pieces.
I had to finish organizing my hobby space, we recently moved, before i could start on the kit. I did however get the servos mounted, and elevator control arm. The bearings for the elevator control are fit into the carbon sideframes. As per in the instructions these holes had to enlarged to fit the bearings. I personally dont mind this at all as id rather size to fit then have a hole to big to begin with. All it took was a few passes with a half round file and the bearings pressed in.
By the way I did not get the CD with this kit. They did not have one made at the time. I did however get a paper manual. They seemed to have printed 4 of the manual pages on each paper page. For those of you who will print it out this would save on paper. I dont mind getting a manual on CD. Changes can be made easily, rather then a bunch of loose uptate pages in the bottom of the box which ive had in other kits. Plus this is the computer age. Heck most of you now are learning to fly on a computer.
Thats as far as i got on the kit as i had other obligations. I will work on this more this week. I have included pictures. I dont have a high end camera so sorry about the quality.



Support your local hobby shop
03-10-2008 02:41 PM
 
 
d-bledsoe
Veteran
Location: Kirkland WA

Lets see more.
I am defiantly interested in seeing how this heli turns out. Looks like it has some potential

-Derek Bledsoe
-Infina Models
-Compass Models
-Knight 50 3d carbon
03-11-2008 04:12 AM
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
d-bledsoe
Veteran
Location: Kirkland WA

Any updates?

-Derek Bledsoe
-Infina Models
-Compass Models
-Knight 50 3d carbon
03-12-2008 07:08 PM
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
snobdrs
Senior Heliman
Location: coatesville,pa-usa

Not as of yet. I have been busy with work and house projects. I should be able to get a good days work on it sometime this weekend.

Support your local hobby shop
03-12-2008 08:20 PM
 
 
rsalazar
Key Veteran
Location: Florida, USA

Thanks, snobdrs

Let us know more when you are ready
03-13-2008 02:09 AM
 
 
snobdrs
Senior Heliman
Location: coatesville,pa-usa

Ive been picking away at the bat, i have everything in the top side frames and am ready to join them. I will post more pictures on monday as ill have a full day to work on it this weekend. No real problems to this point. I have to install the clutch lining before i close the sides. Notice the triple bearing for the main shaft, and also the clutch and pinion ride a triple bearing setup. The clutch bell came with the bearing and block already pressed on. The block above the pinion has 2 bearings. I thougt this to be a very solid setup. The bell itself has almost zero slop.
The counter gear shaft was a touch loose in the bearings. Not excessively loose but more then i would let go without locktite.Some locktite all shaft/bearings i dont as it sometimes make bearings hard to replace. So i smeared a little on the shaft ends installed it into the bearings, put pully and e-clip on, and installed the assembly loosely in the frames. Ive had this problem with old concept shafts and the locktite works like a charm. Ill check after a few flights but dont believe it to be a problem.



Support your local hobby shop
03-20-2008 03:19 AM
 
 
rsalazar
Key Veteran
Location: Florida, USA

Any more updates?
03-22-2008 02:17 AM
 
 
snobdrs
Senior Heliman
Location: coatesville,pa-usa

This weekend i got a good solid day to work on the Bat 50. During the week i was picking at it and ran into a few problems. I decided i would take the kit up to QWW and have them look it over. This is the first customer built Bat50, i ran into a few instruction manual errors, which QWW will correct for production kits, I also made a few errors.
So continuing with the build, upper side frames were closed up. I squared them to a mirror and they were a touch off. A little pressure was required while i tightened the screws to pull the frames square. I left the clutch/main gear loose along with the counter gear assembly as these will need to be set when installing the main gears. I also left the center main shaft bearing block loose as these holes are slotted and figured it had something to do with centering the main gear.
Next was the tank mount. Assembly was straight foward and i really like this setup. There are no sharp edges for the tank to rub on. There was a little extra space so i added some foam to center the tank. This probably isnt needed but a little extra insulation dosent hurt. I took a little bit of time to get the lines out of the tank correct. i angeled them to come through the cut outs in the upper plate. You can see this in the pics. The one thin i did notice was the for and aft plates( the ones with the QWW cut into them were a touch oversized. I sanded the top and bottom of both plates a bit to fit between the top and bottom of the tank mount. Also as the front of the tank mount fits between the lower side frames the sides of the front tank mount plate needed sanding. I just assembeled it and used a file untill the carbon was flush with the aluminum uprights.
Another note is if you look in the pictures of the tank mount you will notice 1mm shims where the tank mount connects to upper frames. QWW had not recieved the correct pieces from their manfacturer when they packed my kit. Some of the first kits may also be that way depending on when you buy your kit. If your is like this the easiest way to put these in is to CA them on before assembly. Also you will note the rear and middle aluminum tank to frame mounts are the same as the front one. In the production kits these will be longer and screw through the carbon into the uprights. On mine i had to counter sink the inner holes and insert counter sunk screws from the bottom and nuts on the top. All this hardware was included with the kit.
The tank mount was attached to the upper sideframes, the finishing washers had to have a flat filed on them to fit in but no biggie there. The front aluminum was also mounted.
If you take notice in the pic of this assembly you will notice the rudder belcrank mounted on the right side. and if you look at my earlier post of the upper sideframe assembly you will notice it mounted on the left. This is one of the mistakes had made.
I wanted to get the main gear assembly in and check alignment of everything, and locktite in place. This is where i made my second mistake, and i think others may have done the same. No matter what i did i couldnt get a proper fit. The lower gear had about a 1.5 mm gap between it and the upper gear, and thus wouldnt fit in the frames. I ended up adding 1mm shims to make it work. A call to QWW and i get the usuall "flip the gear" I looked at the instructions again looked at the gear, and came up with nothing. I would put my money it being correct and just not fitting. I took the assembly up to QWW and as soon as they saw it, They told me the gear was upside down. I took it apart reversed the gear and what do ya know, it fits now. I took a few pictures for everyone to see. The pictures are of the correct mounting. A note here, do not crank down on the cap screws that mount the lower gear. Aside from pulling the gear crooked they also squash the gear out and will contact the upper gear hub. I installed the gear into the main frames, Adjusted the center bearing block to center the gears in the frames, locktited and tightened. Once installed the lower and upper gear did rub slightly, most likely this would wear in after flight, but i prefered to adjust it now. I pulled the gears, pulled the bottom gear assembly apart and sanded one of the 2 carbon spacers a bit, reassembeled and was perfect. Some of this also may have been because of overtightening the gear screws, but all is well now.
There were a bit of a high spot on the gear so i set gear mesh to this point, after a flight or so i check and adjust as necessary.
I have more done but dont have time to write about it just now. But will update soon.



Support your local hobby shop
03-24-2008 06:28 PM
 
 
shuttlepilot
Elite Veteran
Location: Mullins, South Carolina

Good job on the build info snobdrs and it's looking very nice so far. I have found that with the main gears that if you get the mesh set to the "high spot" on the gears that it will wear in..in a tank or two. I have always set mine that way and have never had to replace a main gear because of wear. Also, great comments on the placement of the gears. I made that same mistake when building my gasser.

Gas is Great
Quick OD 26
03-24-2008 07:06 PM
 
 
rsalazar
Key Veteran
Location: Florida, USA

snobdrs

Thanks for the update and the commnets.

it is looking good
03-24-2008 07:26 PM
 
 
snobdrs
Senior Heliman
Location: coatesville,pa-usa

I have seen many issues on the main gears. I have also seen and heard the classic quote "Flip the gear" I could have swore i had it as the manual, but when i went back and looked the manual was correct. I dont know if its just the way the pic looks or what but i did have it wrong.

Support your local hobby shop
03-24-2008 07:30 PM
 
 
rsalazar
Key Veteran
Location: Florida, USA

Any more news!!
04-01-2008 01:44 AM
 
 
snobdrs
Senior Heliman
Location: coatesville,pa-usa

The build is coming along. Id say im 95% done at this point.
Engine mounting was very smooth. The Fan is a two piece unit with the hub being aluminum, and the actual fan portion is plastic. I spun the hub on my balancer and it was right on. Attached the fan portion and spun again and it was good. The fan mounts on the motor with 2 cone shaped collets one above and one below the hub. It centered itself rather well, with just a tap it was within .002 runout. with the clutch shoe i got it to within .001.
Mounting it in the frame is pretty straight foward. I like that the fan shroud is able to be moved around and was easy to get a nice tight fit around the motor. Pipe went on next.
I installed servo horns and starting making up control rods. Here is where i made one of my changes. I moved the rear servo to mount from the inside of the frames. QWW mounts it to the outside and puts the balls on the inside of the servo arm. This works on most servos but on sum at extreme throws, it can cause binding. I chose to mount the servo from the inside and put the balls on the outside.I also chose to mount the throttle servo from the inside to get a better line to the motor.
The landing gear has to be drilled, so i lined them up with their mounts, scrached a line, and poped a few holes in them. The front is a solid mount and there are to rubber mounts in the rear. Make sure you have the correct length screws here as hole in the rubber mounts isnt very deep.
The head was also pretty straight foward. Just paying close attention to the shims and spacers, to get them in the right position. I was a little dissapointed that the kit did not come with the flybar cage shown in the pictures on QWW site. It instead came with the 2 90 degree arms. Everything was put onto the mainshaft and i made up those links.
I put the upgrade tail case together and had it mounted. Eury has this assembly in his review of the gasser. I found that after i had everything (gyro,reciever,battery)in the heli it was coming up tail heavy. So I chose to go with the original tail that came with the kit.This also went together without much effort. I also went with the plastic tail blade grips to save weight back there.
Inital weights on this machine are coming in around 8.85 pounds. Which i thought wasnt to bad for a machine with this much metal. This was also with a 4 cell nimh and a icg400 gyro which is rather large.
Setup is the usuall. going along and making sure everything is at square or level. Matching common link lengths. Inital setup seems to be giving me right around 10,0,-10 without pushing it.
I should be making first flight sometime this week. And will update with flight results.
If anyone has any questions about the build feel free to ask them.

One note i forgot to add. When building the fuel tank mount, the forard plate is mounted with socket head screws. The engine mount frames have a slot for mounting the reciever switch. The socket head screw interfers if you have a wide switch. On the right side of the tank mount remove the screws that hold the front plate on and replace with button heads or counter sunk screw.



Support your local hobby shop
04-07-2008 05:14 AM
 
 
ZXXflyer
Veteran
Location: stone mountain, georgia, US

lookin good!
Have you painted the canopy yet?

Believer in Weston motors!
04-07-2008 05:26 AM
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
rsalazar
Key Veteran
Location: Florida, USA

It looks good.

Thanks for the report
04-07-2008 06:53 AM
 
 
d-bledsoe
Veteran
Location: Kirkland WA

Nice build so far.
Im curious, one thing i have always pushed hard on QWW was the weight of their birds. is the 8.85 lbs of your bird with out fuel or with fuel?

-Derek Bledsoe
-Infina Models
-Compass Models
-Knight 50 3d carbon
04-07-2008 06:56 AM
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
shuttlepilot
Elite Veteran
Location: Mullins, South Carolina

I know that the posted weight on the website is 8.4 lbs. I have read some other threads about weight and so forth with a heli that is "3d capable". I remember one comment that stated "how does it fly?" It's going to be a heavier bird than it's plastic counterparts, but does it "fly heavy" is the real question. There are some birds out there that have a heavy feeling in flight, but are not very heavy. I think the geometry of this heli is a welcome change for the Quick line and should fly "lighter" than previous models. I guess we will see how snobdrs likes it when he gets it in the air.

Gas is Great
Quick OD 26
04-07-2008 03:16 PM
 
 
snobdrs
Senior Heliman
Location: coatesville,pa-usa

An all metal bird is going to be heaver then a plastic bird. There are things i could do to cut weight down, i could probably shave half a pound or so, lighter batterys, lighter gyro, cutting down the excess on metal servo arms ect. As far as the kit itself, I talked with Irwin about this, his comments were there are things he could do to make it lighter, but he feels its better to have a rock solid machine thats gona last then to have a maching that flexs and transmits vibration throughout the heli. Most 3D machines out there in the 50 class i would consider throw away, they are not going to take constant abuse without alot of maintenance. I would rather have a heli with a little more weight that will last with minimal maintenance. And like i said earlier there are ways one could shave weight on the bat and put it in with other 50s.
I dont know how much input i will have about the feel of the heli, being light or heavy in 3D. My skills are not quite to that level.Mostly foward flight airobatics and some stationary flips. Now if its a dog in the air i will be able to tell.
I do intend to let others that are capable have at it and get their input.

Support your local hobby shop
04-07-2008 06:03 PM
 
 
d-bledsoe
Veteran
Location: Kirkland WA

I can see your point, but realize this also. There is no reason to have every part on any helicopter be all metal or carbon, there are certain parts were metal adds nothing to the helicopter except weight, and real 3d guy will tell you this.

Quote 
Most 3D machines out there in the 50 class i would consider throw away, they are not going to take constant abuse without alot of maintenance. I would rather have a heli with a little more weight that will last with minimal maintenance.
Couldn't disagree with you more on that topic and this tells me you haven't really looked around the 3d 50 size market as of late. There are more birds then just align and thunder tiger, all of which are lighter and i would venture a guess would last just as long as any QWW bird flown in the same style.

Concerning weight another thing one needs to think about is this. Just because its heavier doesn't mean that it will be stronger or hold up any longer or require less maintenance than a lighter bird. Just by the given nature that it's heavier will cause the stresses to be higher then a lighter bird. So while it may be a pound heavier if you flight it has hard as a lighter bird chances are because its heavier and more weight is having to be thrown around the air that it will wear down just as much as any other bird. Now if you fly this heavier bird easier then a lighter bird then i can see your point.

I am 100% certian that right after this post i will be called flaming or trying to start something. This is not what i am trying to do, i think the bat 50 is a great step in the right direction, and i look forward to seeing how it flies in capable hands.

-Derek Bledsoe
-Infina Models
-Compass Models
-Knight 50 3d carbon
04-07-2008 08:58 PM
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
shuttlepilot
Elite Veteran
Location: Mullins, South Carolina

no flames derek. Just different schools of thought, and flying styles can have a definate impact on the outcome of any test of wear and tear. With that in mind, I see most folks that buy a "stock bird" tend to upgrade it with metal in key places that does add weight. I would be interested in what a Quick weighs if it did have a platic swash, head, blade grips and so forth just to see an "apples to apples" so to speak. Remember the weight just isn't there for the sake of having it, it comes from the addition of stronger parts that help eliminate flex and stresses from flight. Like I said earlier, two schools of thought.....

Gas is Great
Quick OD 26
04-07-2008 09:30 PM
 
 
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