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Fast Lad Performance . Ace Hobby . Esprit Model

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e-Century Hummingbird - Swift > Align 600L in Swift 16 ?
 
 
Ronnie
Senior Heliman
Location: BC

Anyone know if an Align 600L out of a Trex 600 E will work in a Swift 16 ? I have someone that wants to buy my spare Swift 16, wants it ready to fly and I have a Align 600L motor here.
Info Appreciated.
Ron
03-03-2008 05:08 AM
 
 
Ravenhyper50
Senior Heliman
Location: Ottawa

Yes, the Align 600L can go in a swift it has been done many times

MSH Protos 500, SWIFT 550 Carbon, Swift 620SE, DX-7, JR servos
03-03-2008 05:11 AM
 
 
Ronnie
Senior Heliman
Location: BC

Thanks, appreciate the info.
Ron
03-03-2008 06:12 AM
 
 
Ronnie
Senior Heliman
Location: BC

Wow, just insane, I just put a align 600L motor into my swift 16 which had a lighting 600 motor in it origonally, I didn't change the pinion from the Align motor that I took out of a Trex 600,
not sure how many teeth are on the pinion, I'll take it out tonight and check it, but when this heli lifted it was just insane, the head speed must have been well over 3000, I guess I'm really lucky nothin flew apart.
Anyone using the Align 600L motor in there swift ? how many teeth on the pinion ?
info appreciated.
Thanks, Ron
03-13-2008 02:17 AM
 
 
eggmcmuffinplz
Key Veteran
Location: CA

Has anyone used one in a logo 10? Im thinking about getting one, has anyone put a 600l in one?
03-13-2008 02:28 AM
 
 
Ronnie
Senior Heliman
Location: BC

OK, the pinion is a 13 tooth, and the Swift main gear I believe, is 96 tooth, the motor is a ALign 600L rated at 1620 KV, 6Cell tp5000 ma Lipo batt,CC HV45 ESC, throttle settings all at 100 %.
anyone good with this stuff and could figure out what the headspeed was on this, it was insane, just uncontrollable, ( lucky I was able get it down and land it ), at least twice the power of my Trex 600 with that same motor in it.
Info appreciated.
Ron
03-13-2008 03:01 AM
 
 
emag remrofni
Key Veteran
Location: Los Angeles California

Quote 
Has anyone used one in a logo 10? Im thinking about getting one, has anyone put a 600l in one?

Come on now muffin man, you kinda hijacked his Ronnies topic there. Start your own.

Check out my gallery
**Modefo's Heli's**
**Lightning Power Batteries**
03-13-2008 03:17 AM
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
steve9534
Key Veteran
Location: yakima, wa.

600L

I tried this and even with a 9 tooth pinion broke the t/r gear box on one occasion and a main blade holder on another. The last pretty well grenaded the heli. It had a lot of power and was fun to fly, but the KV of the 600L is too high for the Swift and there's no suitable gearing to get the head speed down to a safe level. Sorry. steve
03-13-2008 03:49 AM
 
 
Ravenhyper50
Senior Heliman
Location: Ottawa

Quote 
600L

I tried this and even with a 10 tooth pinion


Ten tooth that's crazy with the 600L on 6 cell lipo..9 tooth max...8 tooth if you can find it. and tone down head speed by running in gov mode with 70-80% straight throttle curve

MSH Protos 500, SWIFT 550 Carbon, Swift 620SE, DX-7, JR servos
03-13-2008 04:01 AM
 
 
Ronnie
Senior Heliman
Location: BC

anyone know if theres a 8 or 9 tooth ( perferably steel ) pinion with a 5mm shaft size available ? I guess it could be from any model of heli.
info appreciated.
Thanks, Ron
03-13-2008 04:02 AM
 
 
steve9534
Key Veteran
Location: yakima, wa.

pinion

Sorry, it was the 9 tooth pinion I had and my post above was edited to correct it. It was recommended to me not to use the 8 tooth pinion because there's not enough teeth engaged and the main gear would fail. Thanks. steve.
03-13-2008 04:10 AM
 
 
Ravenhyper50
Senior Heliman
Location: Ottawa

Quote 
It was recommended to me not to use the 8 tooth pinion because there's not enough teeth engaged and the main gear would fail

Funny I have the 8 tooth pinion from Century and it meshed well when I was using 6 cell lipo...just had to mod the motor mount by elongating the slots so the pinion can mesh properly.
I switched to the 9 tooth when I went with the A123 cells.
So if any body needs to get more run time, fly scale, tone down head speed, use a higher kv motor the 8 tooth pinion is a great option and works well.

MSH Protos 500, SWIFT 550 Carbon, Swift 620SE, DX-7, JR servos
03-13-2008 04:18 PM
 
 
oldfart
Elite Veteran
Location: Vancouver, Canada

Ron,

I have not heard of anyone successfully using the Align 600L motor with the Swift on 6 cell lipos. The KV of the motor is just too high for use with 6 cells on a 9T gearing.

Align uses a motor with such a high KV because, with their maingear, using the less expensive 6 cell packs it could get a reasonable head speed...though for any reasonable duration, it required the more expensive 5000 mah packs instead of 3700 mah packs as we use on the Swift for the same duration etc.

A 6S/3700 mah pack, geared for a 6 minute flight at 1900, on a set of 530 to 550mm blades (as on a Swift 16) will give a lot better power to weight performance then a 6S/5000 mah pack turning 600 - 620mm blades on the T600E.

Even using an 8T pinion you will get a 2536 head speed and the gear wall will be too thin to take the power without splitting. A 6 cell Lipo will generate 22.1 volts under our rotor loading. A motor with a KV of 1620 means it will turn at 1620 rpm per volt. So 1620 x 22.1 = 35802!!!

As the Swift has an 96T maingear, using a 13T pinion on the Swift would give a ratio of 96/13 = 7.38. To calculate for your rotor speed at 100% efficiency, divide the motor speed, by the gear ratio - 35802/7.38 = 4851. Figuring for a realistic 85% efficiency of the electronic circuit, you end up with a rotor speed in the vicinity of 4851 x .85 = 4123!!! A great rotor speed to cause any mainrotor to shed blades and tail rotors to explode...the tail rotor would be turning at around 20,000!!!

The only practical way to use that motor may be to use it on a 4 cell Lipo pack or on a proper number of A123 that yield only 2.8V per cell under our extreme loading:

e.g. calculation for a 4 cell lipo:
4 x 3.6 = 14.4 x 1620 = 23328 motor speed
9T pinion = 96/9 = 10.67
23328/10.67 = 2186 x .85 = 1858

Man, I always wondered if I would ever get to practically use all that math I learned in high school.

Ron - you owe me a beer

Phil Noel
Leisure-Tech Products
Century Canada
03-13-2008 05:37 PM
 
 
Ravenhyper50
Senior Heliman
Location: Ottawa

Align 600L motor with the Swift on 6 cell lipos @ 85% efficiency
with the 9 tooth is approx 2800 rpm head speed

With 8 tooth @ 85% efficiency is approx 2500 rpm head speed

Like Oldfart said The KV of the 600L is just too high for use with 6 cells.... Unless you want to ignore century's Max recommended head speed of 2100 RPM.....If you do Metal head is a must!
Rototech 515 carbons and triple bearing tail and you got yourself a little ripper!

MSH Protos 500, SWIFT 550 Carbon, Swift 620SE, DX-7, JR servos
03-13-2008 06:14 PM
 
 
Ravenhyper50
Senior Heliman
Location: Ottawa

Quote 
As the Swift has an 96T maingear, using a 13T pinion on the Swift would give a ratio of 96/13 = 7.38. To calculate for your rotor speed at 100% efficiency, divide the motor speed, by the gear ratio - 35802/7.38 = 4851. Figuring for a realistic 85% efficiency of the electronic circuit, you end up with a rotor speed in the vicinity of 4851 x .85 = 4123!!!
4100 RPM HEAD SPEED Holy Crap!
Ronnie You were very lucky nothing bad happened... Thought you were using a lower cell count

MSH Protos 500, SWIFT 550 Carbon, Swift 620SE, DX-7, JR servos
03-13-2008 06:24 PM
 
 
steve9534
Key Veteran
Location: yakima, wa.

8 tooth pinion

The problem is not that you can't set the mesh properly, but that there are too few teeth engaged. As you go down in pinion size, there are fewer teeth engaged at any one time. With the 8 tooth pinion, there is basically only 1 tooth on the pinion engaged with the main gear. They aren't strong enough to support the forces involved and the teeth of the main gear will fail. I'm just repeating what was told me here by several individuals who had tried it. Feel free to use it at your own risk. steve.
03-13-2008 11:04 PM
 
 
Dunedinflyer
Heliman
Location: Dunedin Fl

Align in a swift

If you can find a mikado 8 tooth pinion mod 1 from logo 20 days its a steel pinion much better quality than centurys alum ones easier to set the mesh i don't think you would have a problem Dunedinflyer
03-14-2008 12:16 AM
 
 
bellecrank
Veteran
Location: Canada

Thank you for the math oldfart. Looks like a 6 cell lipo, with an 8T pinion would also be unacceptable as the head speed you figured would still be 2500 plus!!!

If I wanted a higher head speed (e.g. closer to the 2100 limit, using shorter and lighter RT515mm blades), I calculate that I could use the 600L align motor with a good 20C or 25C 4 cell pack, and get a hotter head speed, albeit I do understand that the flights would be shorter.

Here's how I figure it:

As you figured, the 4 cell pack would give a 100% motor speed of 23328.

Using a 10T pinion would give a 96/10 = 9.6 gear ratio.

So the 100% calculation would be a head speed of 23328/9.6 = 2334.

Calculating for the 85% efficiency, would result in a net head speed of 1983 (almost 2000).

The only other question would be wether the Align 600L could take the current/power required, before early burn out, as I have seen them burn out relatively early in a few T600e's.
03-14-2008 03:58 AM
 
 
Ronnie
Senior Heliman
Location: BC

Thanks again for all the information, yes Phil, I'll buy you a beer next time I see you , Thanks.
Anyone know where I can get a 9 tooth pinion ( 5 mm shaft size ) perfer steel ?
I just checked about 10 websites and can't seem to find anyone with one is stock.
info appreciated.
Thanks, Ron
03-14-2008 04:14 AM
 
 
Dunedinflyer
Heliman
Location: Dunedin Fl

pinion

fx aeromodler part no M2509 in Mikado Parts Dunedinflyer
03-14-2008 05:33 AM
 
 
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e-Century Hummingbird - Swift > Align 600L in Swift 16 ?
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