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Aerobatic 3D Contest > Ever wanted to give up after a day at the field?
 
 
tchavei
rrProfessor
Location: Portugal

Yes

This has crossed my mind at least a dozen times today.

I can fly inverted backwards with figure 8's, loops, rolls and circuits on the sim with my eyes closed. It actually gets boring.

Today I went to the field and burned 4 tanks. Guess what? Even after 20 flights total of inverted backwards flight, I still behave like a jerk when I try it way up there and completely freeze when I lower the manuever below 90 feet. I'm sick and tired of that horrible helpless feeling "I'm gonna dork it, I'm gonna dork it".

WTF?!

To add my happiness, I also started to do half piroflips from upright to inverted to initiate IBF and guess what again... I tried it today at the field for the first time... I can't even describe the move I made but it looked like a tail wip with a cyclic jerk. I think some lockouts look better than what I did today.

Jeez, why are some maneuvers so easily translated from the sim to real life and others just don't click?

Just arrived home, threw the gear and heli in the hobby room and slammed the door. Not sure when I'm going to open it again

Tony


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"Perfection and patience usually walk side by side..."
02-29-2008 06:32 PM
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
Drunk Monk
rrProfessor
Location: Preston, UK

Try the piro flips from inverted to upright, that way it doesn't matter how you come out your pretty much guarenteed to be at least the right way up

You don't have the pucker factor on the sim.


Stephen

I only open my mouth to change feet.....
02-29-2008 06:34 PM
 
 
marked23
Veteran
Location: Lynnwood, WA

Try this.

Find some music that you like and listen to it while you practice on the sim. Listen on a portable music thing, through headphones. It has to be music that inspires you, so don't do too much practice with it. You don't want to get bored of the music, but you at least have to get comfortable flying while you hear it. Also, turn off the sound on your simulator.

Then go to the field and take the music with you. Same headphones. Turn it up so that you can't hear anything else. Enjoy flying to the music... Get into that headspace where you are fully engaged in being inspired by the music while you fly.

If it works for you, you won't need the music after a while.

-Mark
02-29-2008 06:41 PM
 
 
tchavei
rrProfessor
Location: Portugal

Quote 
Try the piro flips from inverted to upright, that way it doesn't matter how you come out your pretty much guarenteed to be at least the right up

Ok, that was the best advice I got in the last few years... you're completely right. Only catch is that I don't feel as connected when I do it from inverted to upright. Thats why I tried the upright to inverted stuff. I guess I need to practice that part more on the sim.

marked23: I tried that once at the field but the terror of not hearing the engine made me land immediately and turn the music off... maybe I should try again?

Tony


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"Perfection and patience usually walk side by side..."
02-29-2008 06:47 PM
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
Drunk Monk
rrProfessor
Location: Preston, UK

I like to do a half piro flip from inverted or into inverted as it's only a half stir of the stick and like I said, from inverted it's not really a problem if it doesn't go right. Just start high do a few then do something else, keep doing the same thing all the time will just get you mad if you struggle, you always find your first few are the best then you just can't hit it again.


Stephen

I only open my mouth to change feet.....
02-29-2008 07:02 PM
 
 
tchavei
rrProfessor
Location: Portugal

Thats also so true...

Oh well... I guess its time to head for the hobby room and clean that sucker for sunday

I'll try the music thinggy tonight on the sim and I'll be taking with me a mp3 player next time at the field.

I also need to practice the half piroflip from inverted to upright to get it smooth.

Tony


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"Perfection and patience usually walk side by side..."
02-29-2008 07:15 PM
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
red_z06
Key Veteran
Location: Dumont, NJ

Two things that are obstructing you from doing it right.

1. Is my heli capable of doing the move?
2. Am I able to duplicate what I've done on the sim.

Best and quickest way to resolve both is to hook up with a local pro.
Have him show you the move with your heli (takes care of 1).

Get yourself a buddy box setup and have him become your reset button. You will feel so much at ease that you will be able to perform exactly as on the sim.

This of course does not help you if you aren't lucky enough to find a local pro.

www.justinchi.com
02-29-2008 07:58 PM
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
tchavei
rrProfessor
Location: Portugal

Err... well... uhm... I know a couple of pro's but lets just say I'm not handling my bird to someone that managed to destroy seventy birds last season... no matter how desperate I am...

Anyway, I'm absolutely confident on #1 but you're right... #2 is always a guess.

I think that part of the fear is that I actually never seens a perfect half piroflip and I'm doubting what I'm really doing. I keep playing the manuever in my head and it confuses me.

For example, what I call half a piroflip is when you start with your bird tail in, give a little collective, forward cyclic and at the same time some left rudder and then describe an arch with the cyclic, while you reduce collective and go into negative once the bird is inverted. I end it when I end up inverted tail in. Now is that a half piroflip or no?

Its because when I start disassembling this manuever in my head, the tail doesn't seem to rotate 180 degree at all... maybe just 90 degrees or so.
This means that for a full turn back to upside up, you would only need to move the tail at 180 per second or am I confusing all this?

Tony


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"Perfection and patience usually walk side by side..."
02-29-2008 09:52 PM
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
red_z06
Key Veteran
Location: Dumont, NJ

Do you have G3 or frap where you can record your half piro? We can look at it and tell you if you are ready to do it for real.

Are you comfotable with pirouetting hover? both up right and inverted?

To do a half-piro, you start upright or inverted piroutting. Then start stirring (at the same rate as your tail ) the cyclic (mode 2) on the right stick. As you get near the half-flip, then you start to reduce the cyclic rate. You finish half-piro when you have returned to piroutting hover.

piroutteing at the biginning and end is an option but it should help you with the timing.

By the definition of above, piro flip requires good piro-hover skill.

www.justinchi.com
02-29-2008 10:02 PM
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
tchavei
rrProfessor
Location: Portugal

I'm using phoenix so I think I can manage a recording.

The question is, when you start the "stir" tail in, do you end up inverted tail in?

Thx

Tony


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"Perfection and patience usually walk side by side..."
02-29-2008 10:08 PM
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
red_z06
Key Veteran
Location: Dumont, NJ

That depends on if you want the half flip in 1 piro or 2 piro.

For 1 piro, you should end up exactly inverted. For 2 piro, you should be vertical and at the end of 2nd piro, you should be inverted.

www.justinchi.com
02-29-2008 10:18 PM
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
tchavei
rrProfessor
Location: Portugal

hmmm


I'm doing half a piro and half a flip I think

I just found a video posted by caseyjholmes a few years ago that shows exactly what I'm doing (at minute 2:23)

http://www.holmesrc.com/files/Sa_3d_training_2.wmv

Only diference is that I do it with a CCW piro and stay inverted while he does it with a CW piro and gets out at the end with half flip and half piro at top

Tony


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"Perfection and patience usually walk side by side..."
02-29-2008 11:15 PM
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
RYOTGEAR
Heliman
Location: USA

I watched that video and I am beginning to see a way to break this manuever down and start practicing it.I have been trying but it is not going well.I have watched the animations and read many posts and feel like I will never get the piroflip.I know that there are many posts and videos and all BUT can someone tell me(dumb Italian brain)in a dummy way ,how to start practicing this?
I can hover inverted in all directions and upright and fly inverted backwards circles and feel confident in understanding what needs correction during a piroflip but I lack the understanding of the breakdown for practicing.

MATTER SET FREE
03-01-2008 02:49 AM
 
 
red_z06
Key Veteran
Location: Dumont, NJ

For those wishing to do this quick and dirty way, follow below steps.

This is by no means a proper way to do it. But it will at least give you a taste of what it feels like. I did it this way prior to learning it properly.

Get a 90 size heli on the sim as it is less twitch.

I call this maneuver Fake Piro-Flip

1. From a tail in hover high, apply full left rudder. Adjust rudder rate if it is faster than 360deg per sec.

2. Do about 3 pirouettes and try to count every time the tail comes back to you. One.. Two... Three.

3. On next tail-in positon, start applying full forward cyclic and start to stir clockwise at the same rate as the tail.

4. For first few tries make sure your pull the pitch to zero pitch so the heli will do slow descent.

* As long as you keep the pitch at zero, the heli will not wonder but fall down slowly.

5. After few tries and being comfortable with the rate of drop at zero pitch, try to mix in little pos pitch at most upright position and neg pit at most inverted position. The amount of pitch should be about same as hovering pitch upright and negative. This will slow down the descent and hold the altitude.
* If it wonders, then you are applying the pitch at wrong timing.

I'll try to post a G3 video when I can make one.

www.justinchi.com
03-01-2008 03:01 AM
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
tchavei
rrProfessor
Location: Portugal

just found this thread:

http://www.runryder.com/helicopter/...t=half+piroflip

and according to this I'm either doing one piro (360) per full flip (upright to inverted and back to upright) or, like some pointed out on that thread, not a piroflip at all.

This is too depressing lol

Tony


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"Perfection and patience usually walk side by side..."
03-01-2008 09:23 AM
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
RYOTGEAR
Heliman
Location: USA

They can rename it the Rubiks flip,it is about just as frustrating.

MATTER SET FREE
03-02-2008 03:33 AM
 
 
TMoore
rrProfessor
Location: Cookeville, TN



Practice, man, just practice.

"If you can do it, it ain’t bragging." - Will Rogers
03-02-2008 03:28 PM
 
 
zack108
Heliman
Location: baltimore

just takes time im getting there to

zack
03-03-2008 02:17 AM
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
tchavei
rrProfessor
Location: Portugal

Update:

Burned another 5 tanks today and finally inverted backward flight clicked. I spent the whole afternoon in that position without hassles. I'm still doing it at 100 feet but I'm sure I will get it lower with a little more practice

I also tried my fake piroflips and they came out nice

Some days just are better than others

Tony


--------------------
"Perfection and patience usually walk side by side..."
03-03-2008 03:03 AM
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
Drunk Monk
rrProfessor
Location: Preston, UK

Way to go, and I have to agree, some days are certainly better than others


Stephen

I only open my mouth to change feet.....
03-03-2008 08:50 AM
 
 
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Aerobatic 3D Contest > Ever wanted to give up after a day at the field?
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