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CarbonXtreme . Midland Helicopters . HeliProz

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Aerobatic FAI F3C Contest > Blade Grips Lead or Lag?
 
 
ben1101
Senior Heliman
Location: Australia

Hi,

I was wondering what the difference in control is from having the rotor grips attached leading or lagging?

Kind Regards,

Ben

Helicopters: The. Best. Ever.
02-26-2008 01:57 AM
 
 
Dr.Ben
Elite Veteran
Location: Richmond, VA, USA

Everybody listen up, because if the right guys chime in here, you're going to learn a lot......

Ben
02-26-2008 02:55 AM
 
 
Salesmanheliboy
Senior Heliman
Location: Nashville, TN

One way the swash goes down and the model goes up and the other way the swash goes up and the model also goes up. Is that what you are looking for Dr. Ben?

Tim
02-26-2008 05:30 AM
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ben1101
Senior Heliman
Location: Australia

Hi Guys,

Im thinking about whether delta comes into play or not, whether it makes it more aggressive or stable or if any other aerodynamic forces come into play...

Ben

Edited - No Offence!

Helicopters: The. Best. Ever.
02-26-2008 08:07 AM
 
 
nighttrain
Senior Heliman
Location: Louisville KY

I'm still so confused! Is a half tank of fuel measured from the bottom or from the top?
02-26-2008 01:57 PM
 
 
Salesmanheliboy
Senior Heliman
Location: Nashville, TN

Ben1101,

Currently I fly my model with trailing edge pitch control (see my gallery) with delta. The use of “delta” can be used with either leading edge or trialing edge blade arm control or use none (delta that is) at all.

With respect to the current model I fly (Century Predator); trailing edge control has made the model a bit more manageable in the hovering aspects. There are challenges with the trailing edge setup based (somewhat) on the head design.

A center axel design tends to have some difficulty in windy conditions with windy/gusty being the issue. If the head is a floating axel design (Century, Miniature Aircraft, Kyosho, etc.)part of the mechanical feedback (T/E pitch) works against you. Personally I have chosen to stay with the T/E setup because I don’t feel as negatively impacted (with respect to the model I fly) as some others have found.

It might be a good idea to let us know the model you are setting up; there may be some of us that have experience with your particular equipment and more accurately provide a useable answer.

Tim
02-26-2008 02:31 PM
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racingstripe
Veteran
Location: Sacramento, CA

I have two nearly identical Hirobo Sceadu's... One has the FFZ-III RH (trailing pitch input), the other has the FFZ-IV (leading pitch input).

Simply put, the FFZ-III seems more stable than the FFZ-IV. Put another way, the trailing design seems to want to repel cyclic input, where as the leading design wants to accept cyclic input.

The blade holders are interchangeable between R/H's and the pitch input ball is offset toward the blade. With that, the FFZ-III has "un-correcting delta", the FFZ-IV is "correcting delta".

More here:
http://www.runryder.com/helicopter/t238308p8/
http://www.runryder.com/helicopter/t404556p1
http://www.runryder.com/helicopter/t405366p1/

andy-

Proofread carefully to see if you any words out.
02-26-2008 04:12 PM
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nighttrain
Senior Heliman
Location: Louisville KY

Andy,
Your trailing blade grips probably are more stable, but thats uncorrecting (neg) delta. If you look at your rotorhead sideways, the pick off point (Ball) is to the left of the flybar (mainshaft).
It was hard to understand for me, but Wayne Mann figured it out. I hope he'll chime in again. It became clear to me that in neg delta, the blade is divergent (recieves further input), pitches further into a gust, and the rotor as a system "absorbs" the gust - rather than the helicopter. The rotors stored momentum overcomes the sudden gust. It only stands to reason but is often overlooked in these discussions: You have to have damping taking place for any pitch arm to operate in this fashion. No damping taking place - no delta. So it's almost a mute point w/ hard 3D type dampers. Many contest pilots flew with practically no resistance at all, way beyond the quote "soft dampers" or 60dm. If a fly lands on the tip of my rotorblade, it will dip 2 inches. It gets progressively harder as the blades get near the boom. Boom strikes seem to be the limiting factor in how soft you can go, and how well you can auto. Most people will tell you not to modify your manufactures rotor - with good reason too, so you may not see much public info on secret practices. But without damping, there is no delta. Good luck!
02-26-2008 06:26 PM
 
 
Jag72
Elite Veteran
Location: 20 minutes south of Boston Mass...

Lead or Lag...

I wonder if it makes a difference in Flybarless setups?

right now I have 4 vbar machines and 2 of them are lead(logo 600's) and 2 are lag(roxxter 55 and 3dmpe)...I am thinking of making the 3dmpe a lead setup just to see if it makes any difference?...anyone know if it will?
02-26-2008 07:04 PM
 
 
racingstripe
Veteran
Location: Sacramento, CA

Quote 
Your trailing blade grips probably are more stable, but thats uncorrecting (neg) delta. If you look at your rotorhead sideways, the pick off point (Ball) is to the left of the flybar (mainshaft).

nighttrain, you are 100% correct. I re-read my reply and realized I flip-flopped that part.

I usually use "pos/neg" to describe delta offset, but many of those articles I linked to use the "correcting/un-correcting" terminology and I wanted to follow suit to avoid confusion.

Thanks!
andy-

Proofread carefully to see if you any words out.
02-26-2008 10:40 PM
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Aerobatic FAI F3C Contest > Blade Grips Lead or Lag?
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