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Mikado Modellhubschrauber . GrandRC . CanoMod

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QuickWorldWide Ep and Wet Fuel Helis > Oops - they have done it again. Now for the real story!!!!
 
 
ozace
Key Veteran
Location: melbourne, australia

Well, its great to read from a company and their staff.
The highlight for me is how they treat a guy who has paid and paid to participate in this hobby. He took a punt on a company with questionable hardware and customer skills. The intention from the outset was to have a 20cc machine to fit into a scale body.

Going back over the public forums since the beginning Ozghost tried to do the right thing all round. He took the hints and tips early on and tried his hardest to get his mahine in a happy place.

Now after countelss hours and efforts he was getting closer and closer to his aim.

I am sure there was much behind the scenes communication to get here but thats not for "us" to know about. All i know is what i have read here and from my point, having company replies with such childish, rude tones to a hobbiest who just wants a machine he paid for to work is unacceptable.

Shifting blame, finding any excuse under the sun to avoid reality is poor form.

The concept of a 20cc machine was so appealing. The claims things had changed at HHI for the better, hardware and attitude wise was worth the risk, now look at what happened. Blame the customer at ever opportunity, resort to ganging up on him when he raises a legit claim.

I think if anyone wants to see how HHI operates just search Ozghosts posts from the start, take time to read all that is written, see the replies. Then you can read for yourself how HHI systematically ruins any credability they ever had, see how they continue with the same old lines. Decide for yourselves if any hobby is worth the trouble of trying to deal with them.

I think not.

we can never have too many, can we ?
02-26-2008 11:10 PM
 
 
snobdrs
Senior Heliman
Location: coatesville,pa-usa

So easy a caveman could build it.
Can i get a check please i need to get out of this place

Support your local hobby shop
02-26-2008 11:18 PM
 
 
ozghost1952
Heliman
Location: Melbourne Australia

Jon

Thanks for posting this picture - I will check tonight by aligning the two together - this was my starting point - the tail gear was my frame of reference - once it was assembled and fitted to the side frames I tried to work from there to get the bottom main gear to align with the tail pinion - and as a second stage to get the top gear to align with the drive pinion. Once this all fitted I assumed I had everything in the right place. Another reference point I used was the autorotation housing fitted to the lower bearing block - this can only fit one way - as it housed the thrust bearing. The distance to the top gear is then also a fixed reference point with the thin spacer between the auto housing and the thrust bearing

I would also appreciate if you could draw a cross section of the main gear assembly - the instructions show two of the same size - but the kit has one thinner than the other - this provides four permutations -which one goes where - and as thin one is not symetrical - one lip thicker than the other - this can be flipped

I unreservedly aplogise for insulting you - and will edit the post to remove this comment

Regards
02-26-2008 11:22 PM
 
 
Chris Paul
Heliman
Location: Coopersburg, PA

two cents

Ozace, we offered to send new parts and to help fix the problem. You don't know what communication took place "behind the scenes", so therefore I can't see how you are so set on criticizing us when you don't have the whole story. As for placing blame, I think a big problem here was a lack of understanding from both points due to a lack of clear communication. We have been working on our customer service, but it is not an overnight job. Also, even you have to admit that the way things were said in this forum (as well as the forum title itself) would more than likely not provoke the most positive response from our company. One can only take so much before reacting, its human nature. Many of you have a less than positive opinion of Irwin and even I agree he can be rough around the edges, which has been well documented on this forum in the past. So I ask, how you expect him to react in a positive way when the initial postings came across in a very negative way? Even I could barely answer the posts without throwing back the same negativity. If you want help from someone, you have to at least ask in a somewhat decent tone. I am not trying to provoke a response from ozghost, I am simply stating that maybe the tone of this forum was negative from the start. Jon and Ozghost are communicating and hopefully everything will be figured out. Personally ozace, I was wondering why you have such an interest in ozghost's heli, you basically sound like his advocate or lawyer. I think that offering help is the very essence of customer service. Although not perfect, we are working towards removing all the flaws from the customer service system, as well as everything else. If you want to help ozace, give us some positive criticism as to what you expect from us, instead of randomly throwing flames on this forum and needlessly adding more negativity. Negativity won't get his heli fixed, good positive communication will.

Chris
02-27-2008 12:23 AM
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
ozace
Key Veteran
Location: melbourne, australia

Chris, my interest in Ozghosts heli is simple.

On all the forums i have come across, i can only find 2 people who will post about the 20cc gasser. One is me the other is OZghost.

My deep concerns come from wanting the heli i purchased to be able to fly reliably for the long term. I must say if we had other posters who have direct understanding of this particular machine then it would have been nice to hear from them.

Right now my heli sits in the shed due to my lack of confidence in its abilty to stay in one piece. Ozghost has more heli experience than most members here and with a very mechanical background he is someone who i know i can trust. I await him being able to sort out these issues and assist me.

As to the behind the scenes communications , you are correct i have no knowledge BUT i do know what i recieved when i had issues with my build, i can only hope Ozghost isnt subjected to that kind of abuse and at the same time all the support that comes out of the woodwork in private from some very surprising quarters.

I just hope this can get sorted out because as of now the only 2 20cc Quick helis that i know of in customer hands are both not flying.

I understand the claim of hundreds sold will pop up and that HHI has been doing this for 20+years etc, i dont care for the company line i just want to feel confident with a machine i wanted and paid for and for that to happen i need the experience and knowledge of someone like Ozghost who i am pretty sure has been doing this longer than anyone at HHI

we can never have too many, can we ?
02-27-2008 12:53 AM
 
 
Chris Paul
Heliman
Location: Coopersburg, PA

point taken

All we want to do is provide a good heli and customer service you are comfortable with. The only thing we are asking is that if a problem is presented to us or on the forum that it is done with a tone that implies good intention, which isn't the vibe I got off this forum initially. I can't speak for your customer service experience as I don't know who you are or the issue you are speaking of, I can only speak on the problems that I am presented and have knowledge of. If you wish to PM me or email me at chris@quickworldwide.com, I am more than willing to help you with your concerns. We can even answer them on this forum if you wish. I am not referring to our 21 years or how many helis we sold, I am simply saying we have a lot of knowledge of helis and our help is here for the taking. As for comparing who knows what, it truly doesn't matter. Jon is a very knowledgible person both with our helis and other helis in general. I don't doubt that ozghost is experienced, I was simply responding to the offensive remark that was made and graciously removed by ozghost. I personally have no idea how long ozghost has been flying, and at this point is probly not relevant.


Chris
02-27-2008 01:12 AM
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
RaptorEngineer
Heliman
Location: Aguadilla, Puerto Rico

Don't forget me, I'm other 20cc owner

Ozace don't forget me, I spend lot of time reading and writing about the 20cc, but I'm tired of received same (bashing) answers and now close my posting.
I will be very carefull to add my comments in any posting related with my QWW Dominator 20 experience.

Also snobdrs you QUOTE:
"So easy a caveman could build it.
Can i get a check please i need to get out of this place".

PLEASE: Show (gallery) how many QWW helicopters you bought new from the factory, not used or trade. How long experience you have with QWW that its so easy that a caveman can buid them. I guess that if you are an expert is good that help others, NOT INSULT THEM...


good luck to everyone

Make ideas into realities...
02-27-2008 02:03 AM
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
ozace
Key Veteran
Location: melbourne, australia

RE, i do appologise for forgetting to mention you. Now that makes 3 20cc machines in posting customers hands.

we can never have too many, can we ?
02-27-2008 02:28 AM
 
 
snobdrs
Senior Heliman
Location: coatesville,pa-usa

For your information Raptor that was meant as a joke. All the negativity in this fourm is almost funny. Everyone is just wraped up way to tight. Loosen up people.
I have stated in other posts that these are builders helis. If something dosent fit, then figure out why. It may take a tweek here or there. Not so easy a caveman could do it!!!! Joke OK lighten up.
As for me, no i have never owned a QWW heli. Ive compeltly rebuilt 2 50 pros, and a 30, and worked on others. Ive never had a problem with fitting of parts. I am however switching from what i am flying, over to QWW. Most likely a new 50 and one of the new gassers. If people wish i will do a build post on both.
Remember we do this for the fun of it. FOR THE FUN. Lets help each other out to enjoy these helis.

Im glad oz made the adjustments needed to make it work.

Support your local hobby shop
02-27-2008 02:30 AM
 
 
JA Allen
Heliman
Location: NYC

Remember now, I was asked, it seems, in an above post by Irwin to, chime in. Dont give me grief for doing so. But, alas, you will. I KNOW it.

Anyhoo,

I will state it IS a very well engineered TT system, one of the best. The HHI shaft system, as I have argued, should have been standard on the new 3D machines, without argument. But of course, even I was scolded by HHI for stating my dislike of what I saw. I guess it comes with the territory, I was warned also and it came true.

I dont mean anyone any harm. But will answer about the torque tube system, and its surrounding mechanics for this particular airframe honestly.

On my system, as Irwin truthfully stated, there was one problem with the nylon counter gear boss dimension. We fixed that in MY time, and brought the machine in and showed Jon and Irwin and they fixed the rest of the systems in stock. Very cool. Offered me the fix, but mine was done. This was not an engineering mistake, just a part was shipped to them wrong.

Again, as some forget midway through posts here..hrmmm...I will state it IS a very well engineered TT system, one of the best. The HHI shaft system, as I have argued, should have been standard on the new 3D machines, without argument.

Anyway...

Surrounding problems of the TT system were also brought up to JON, I repeat, JON. He saw and made notes. It was a look and explain with JON, as my caller and mechanic Joe was talking with Irwin in the shop elsewhere.

I showed Jon where the three plastic "L" brackets that mate the rear lowers to the rear top frames, that the middle bracket could not be installed properly, because the shaft output bearing bracket was in the way. The two outer brackets installed fine. I showed JON where we had to use JR Vigor alum spacers there, and he made the change. (I suppose, he was very cool to me and did write it down, I actually like JON alot, I really do, he is an awesome bro, and he does care alot about the designs)

Again, as some forget midway through posts here..hrmmm...I will state it IS a very well engineered TT system, one of the best. The HHI shaft system, as I have argued, should have been standard on the new 3D machines, without argument.

We also made a change to the tail pitch plate links lengths and the pitch arms, to allow a more balanced throw, along with the current designs out now. I showed this and worked with JON on this with back and forth parts, and brought it in a second time to JON. He saw it and understood the change. I added the new 90% arm, and its a great setup to match setup and strength of all machines worth note out there. ALSO NOTE VERY IMPORTANT! THIS SYSTEM DOES NOT HAVE THE PITCH PLATE INTERFERENCE PROBLEM OF THE BELT SYSTEMS. It is PERFECT! Great design.

They made the change to the arms, and I dont know the status of the links (I had suggested to just go with shorter links, of the pin and bone design, as spherical links have play. If they are fine on a Vibe and Raptor series, they would be fine for HHI (JON will have to comment, as I dont know if the "Bat" copter has this).

We also had to give up BOTH main gears I was given. I at first had a molded unit, out of round and tooth pitch was out of profile with the pinion pitch (same as a customer above, he is right, and HHI will have to accept it and see if they can fix it). They were great and JON got me a machined delrin gear as fast as I turned around, and not charged. Thanks JON!
That gear was fine, the profile still didnt match the pinion perfect, but settled down fine and tight now, and we are good.

Remember though, the gear for the tail TT to counter gear has a beautiful mesh and design, that was fine, just the main to clutch pinion. DO NOT CONFUSE THE TWO!

I have done MANY things to my dominator, that HHI has not been able to see. Nor am I even going to bother explaining here or elsewhere. I dont think that opportunity will present itself now or ever, or maybe till the contest season starts. I have seen this forum, and I am sorry, but want no part of it. That is why I left. And because I was honest and also straight to the point, was abused on this forum.
So, we will see how well I do on the contest circuit, people there know me, and I will run the Dominator into the ground as my warm- up, and practice machine, it now can take it as our practice sessions have proven. Also does ok in my 3D routine, but my Rap SE does this easy.

Now, one big thing here, I DID communicate with them offline, like an adult, and got great help, and was treated in my wallet fairly by HHI. I was not given any special treatment that they would not do for others (not at the time, if things could have been different, maybe) so yeah, be fkn straight up with them and they will help. Stop being little bitches and just be fkn cool. Post the problem so others know. If your frustrated, sure, vent, but dont let some here rile you up.

My falling out is about bigger things than the machines in most respects, I wanted nothing but the best for HHI and still do, but, and I say this not to any one person at HHI, but HHI as a whole.

First,
HHI has serious customer relations issues which they think is fine...???? It has to be addressed.
Second,
HHI seems very afraid to have a good rep team to go out and fly these things for them, and take criticism for fixes from anyone, especially if we had formed a team for them. Yes, and Irwin is SO hard to talk to, I mean really hard to help him and HHI. But I accept this as the way it is, we are all not perfect. Irwin IS a great guy, I actually love the dude, really warm and fuzzy heart type of guy, he is just hard to talk to sometimes, but for this industry, you have to listen to improve. Whether its building, flying AND MANUFACTURING!
The idea of a good pilot program is to make the machines the best you can, by public display and running them the best we can.

I left because of this forum! I have been told I cant even fly from this forum. Well, you will all soon see that was a BAD assumption. Hence, why I hate this BS forum.

Not HHI, I still love HHI, I dont hate them, which THEY seem to think I do, but they are so wrong it hurts. I will say Chris sometimes shouldnt post at all, as he does not fly helis, or even design anything for them, but hey, good with the bad I guess.
I hate this fkn forum and certain posters in it. Thats why I am gone. Life is not fair, I am sure I am hated also. But just look at it, full of sh$t for a manufacturer of helis. Hell, even the Avant forum isnt this bad...yet. LOL!

Good luck with your HHI machines, and yes, the TT system is a very good, awesome system that is still fine running for my abused machine, and something with this customers system was assembled wrong. Look at the pictures he posted. I saw it a mile away. Its so easy to fix its sickening. Just send a new fkn gear assembly to the bro. Case would have been closed. Everyone in this BS forum made it worse, not HHI.
02-27-2008 03:25 AM
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
Mark Spies
Senior Heliman
Location: LaPlace, La and Houston ,TX

IMHO maybe HHI should slow down and get what they have right.Take your time,make sure all CORRECT parts are with the model when shipped.We hate to wait for something that should have been done the first time.Do some better QA,and most of the problems will go away.Some people have PM me and asked why I closed the thread on the Outdo and Hardcore.The truth is electric was not for me and Irwin refunded my money.I am sure he will get things worked out.

Mark

Starwood Scale Models
02-27-2008 05:06 AM
 
 
ozghost1952
Heliman
Location: Melbourne Australia

Pictures of my assembly

Hi Guys

I have taken a photo to match Jon's - you all be the judge to see if I was supplied the correct part.

I just wish you had trusted me - there would have been many reputations still in tact and a lot less time wasted

Come of Irwin - just send me a replacement as per my picture - I will return same. If its not too much trouble - please assemble it as well - that way there can be no mistakes.

Jeff

02-27-2008 07:00 AM
 
 
ozghost1952
Heliman
Location: Melbourne Australia

Two futher things ..

Jon - you asked where I found the extra space for a longer lip on the clutch - the mod 1 pinion gear has similar dimensions to yours and to get extra "meat" on the thread, I moved the engine lower in the existing slots in the side frames. I also had to make a longer start shaft and used a coaser thread recommended for aluminium.

Irwin - the only way I can get my gear spacing to look like yours is to remove the shim on top of the auto assembly - see page 59 part # QD601. Is this an acceptable or desirable change - my gears are close - but dont interfere

Jeff
02-27-2008 09:11 AM
 
 
flyboy0413
Senior Heliman
Location: CT, USA

ozghost1952,

I'm not sure if you want to go through the extra trouble, but if you removed the shaft in question, measured it, and posted a sketch of it with dimensions, that would put this thing to bed once and for all.

Just a thought.
02-27-2008 01:31 PM
 
 
JA Allen
Heliman
Location: NYC

ozghost,

In your picture, your using a phillips screw as one of the pins for the output counter gear......

Who did that, HHI? I assume it was assembled by them. I doubt JON would assemble it that way. Did you mess with it?
That is a very unsafe assembly. It should be a full pin through both the gear and shaft, with Red locktite used. Plus it would be out of balance and could cause vibes.
02-27-2008 02:08 PM
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
ozghost1952
Heliman
Location: Melbourne Australia

JA - you are correct - only a full pin with loctite will do. This is temporary - and as I will not use the assembly - no issue. If I told you what was holding it in place when I received it - you would not believe me - so why bother.

Funny how again - the focus is trying to divert attention from the facts - QWW supplied me a wrong part - but oh calamity! you used a screw and it will be unbalanced - what a bad boy I am - and also - take the shaft out and measure it - I cant really see from the picture that the hole was in the wrong place - whats the point - if I posted measurements - there would be some in this forum who who question my measurements

Interesting the deafening silence from the critics - and even more deafening silence from the manufacturer

At last count over 1300 people have come to see dirty washing aired in public - people are not stupid - they will understand whats going on - I posted a problem I was having - most of the responses were unhelpful - and irrefutable proof was not accepted

Irwin / Jon / Chris - are you going to replace it on not - a simple yes or no is all thats required
02-27-2008 08:15 PM
 
 
JA Allen
Heliman
Location: NYC

Ok, so I see this "pin" mod, its temporary, right.
I hope you get it sorted, but I wont help you, sorry.

Too much mis-information and wierd stuff now to bother with. Like I said, this fkn forum is trash and I am not here to help or divert for anyone. I dont have a stake in your satisfaction, nor do I care. Sorry.

As from the beginning I saw what was wrong. I didnt want to say anything, as I was not sure, but...

Would you please explain why also, besides the phillips head crack engineering lock pin, the shaft looks nothing like the product I have on mine? Did you make or modify that shaft because you may have mistakenly had the counter gear to the pin mount upside down or some other anomaly? I mean, come on, even the circlip is all bent and fkd up, lol, why all the washers? Come on man. If so, for one, then in all honesty, HHI should not have to replace some of those parts. Lets now forget the shaft. Lets go to the gear you fubared with the "temp" phillips screw. You expect them to replace that no-charge, right? Are you doing any R & D for HHI? I dont think so, so why are you fabricating all this "sh$t" for the machine when some cool calls would have gotten you in the air.
When I made my changes, which were not needed at all, just for my style of flying. I NEVER asked or was given FREE replacements, I accepted I wanted to try something and honestly told them. I also ONLY USED HHI PARTS! Then I Shared the work with them, so I could be told by the designer if it was good AND IF THEY APPROVED OF THE WORK!

NOTHING ON MY SHAFT DRIVE NEEDED TO BE CHANGED.

Hrmm I really think that shaft is suspect. As I said, some things, maybe, but one system HHI has done very well is that shaft system and it fits on these models fine. Dont think that you could snow me on this, I know my machine, down to the knurl on the needle valves.

I am Sorry. But thats my feelings. You dont have to agree with them. You can rage back. Its ok, but thats what I see and feel. I am sorry

Good luck with your heli bro. I really hope your flying soon, the weather is coming up soon...
02-27-2008 10:16 PM
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
Quick Worldwide
rrAdvertiser
Location: Coopersburg, PA

You have done it again!!

First off, let me state what I have said before and you still don't seem to get. Your self rightous, consistantly rude attitude is not winning any favors. You want us to help you, then you come at us with total attitude. Even when JA Allen tried to offer advise, you come across with the same crappy attitude. Exactly what did he do to provoke this. I will be the first to tell you JA and myself have exchanged more than a few words, but even I can't agree with the way you lash out at him even though he is trying to help. We weren't trying to pass blame, but since you have no problem attacking us, lets get the facts in the open. First off, we never even sent you a pre-assembled transmission assembly. Jon and I pack the shaft drive systems, and we are yet to send one out pre-assembled. Second, if you want to criticize how the shaft was cut, at least trying using our shaft first. I can guarantee you that the shaft in assembly you have pictured is definately not our OEM shafts. You have chosen to make or modify some of your own parts, which is your own perogitive. If you look at our assembly, you can plainly see that major modifications were done by you on your assembly. However don't take it out on us when your parts don't work to your expectation. We do many test on our parts and assemblies to make sure they work together perfectly, this shaft drive has been extensively tested and used with total satisfaction. We can't guarentee the compatibility of our parts with yours, I doubt any other heli company could either. Below is the picture of the only shaft we had, have, and will use with the shaft drives. It is the same one we have been including in every shaft drive kit we have sold. No matter what you say, there is no way the shaft in your pic is one of ours. Better yet, take a look at the pictures below side by side and tell me what you think.

As for sending you new parts, we have offered this to you many times, both public and private. However all you seem to want to do is lash into us and keep this situation going, although it has already been blown way out of proportion. I can say that you appear to not want our help, so we will not be sending free replacement parts to replace your screwed up homemade shaft, clutch bell, pinion gear, or any other part you chose to make yourself. In this case only so much can be tolerated, and you have crossed the line a long time ago.

We are here to offer 110% support for our products and customers, lets just be open and honest with each other.

Chris



02-27-2008 10:48 PM
 
 
Chris Paul
Heliman
Location: Coopersburg, PA

A sidenote

Both my 6 yr old son, and my fiance', neither knowing a thing about helicopters, were able to see the difference in the assemblies within 5 seconds without any help from me. I have a hard time believing that you didn't see that there is a drastic difference.

We offer 100% support, if this information was available from the start I am sure this forum could have gone a different route.


Chris
02-28-2008 12:00 AM
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
ozghost1952
Heliman
Location: Melbourne Australia

Ask your six year old if he would pay US$80 for the item in my picture and then make his own?

The only assembly I did on the TT assembly was to add the bottom section to the top. What reason would I have to make a new shaft if yours fitted my heli?

Your response is as I expected - you are never wrong - that’s why you have such a good reputation in the industry. What credibility do you have? You edit posts to change the context of discussion. You discredit people one week but they become your trusted advisors the next week. You rip off my credit card and I have to get Amex to reverse the charges. You try to build credibility by appointing a new President and he runs for his life within weeks. You tell me you don’t know why you still employ Jon as he lied to you for two weeks that that he had sent something and yet hadn’t – and then sent the wrong item.

What more is there to say? You have energised me to devote significant time to continue to discredit your organisation – I will get my $80 worth though spreading the word – and I will adapt another manufacturers part. I now have so little moving parts on my heli – it could not really be called a QWW – that’s why I am the only known person flying this machine

I will keep this post going and try to keep it on the front page – I aim to make it the most read post on RunRyder – people love to see a battle between good and evil

And all for a $2 shaft . . . . . . . .
02-28-2008 03:45 AM
 
 
5 pages [ <<    <     2      3     ( 4 )     5     NEXT    >> ]2081 viewsTOPIC CLOSED
A Main Hobbies . Boca Bearings . Modefo's RC Helicopters

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QuickWorldWide Ep and Wet Fuel Helis > Oops - they have done it again. Now for the real story!!!!
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