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RJX Hobby Hurrican 50 - Xtreme 50 > My X50 build and comparison
 
 
Eury
rrProfessor
Location: Ankeny, IA, USA.

Got the my G10 Xtreme 50 today, I'll keep updating the thread as I build with my thoughts on it. So far I've done a few things on it, so I figured I'd give my thoughts.

Quality wise, the heli is great. The machining is great, and everything that I've touched feels solid and heavy duty. The one way is very beefy, it reminds me of the assembly that cost $200 to add to my Freya.

The engine clutch is a nice solid unit, you've got to glue the liner in on the first step, a good tip here is to dig out the clutch from a later assembly bag, wrap it a couple of times with electrical tape, and when you glue the liner in, put the clutch in. It'll hold it tight while the glue dries.

I can tell you at this point, comparing it to a 600N makes no sense, they are in 2 different leagues. The frames are thicker and stiffer, and the bearing blocks, auto clutch etc are much stronger and better made. My fears that the $600 I spent wasn't a good deal are unfounded, this is up to the caliber of the various Miniature Aircraft helis I've owned.


Nick Crego
I swear to God, I'll pistol whip the next guy that says Shenanigans
02-19-2008 08:36 PM
 
 
RCHeliJim
Key Veteran
Location: Orem, UT USA

I feel exactly the same way Eury. I just built mine up last week and flew it a few times this weekend - its a great heli! I look forward to your comments. So far I really like how it flies, but I am still breaking in the motor - I am betting I will really like it when it gets leaned up a bit

I will be keeping my 600N of course, since I have about 4 crashes worth of parts for it on the wall.... but when those are used up who knows?



Go Fly, Have Fun!!
-Team Quick UK
-Team RCHeliMag
02-19-2008 09:31 PM
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
Eury
rrProfessor
Location: Ankeny, IA, USA.

OK, I've got about 2 hours of building done, the frames are done. Here's what I've come up with:

I'm missing a few screws and washers. Not a huge deal, I've got some that work in the toolbox.

This isn't any more complex than a 600N, but it is a more involved build, just because the blocks and things don't key into the side frames, so you have to set the gear meshes and things yourself. That's a good and a bad thing. On my 600N, the bearing blocks for the mainframe wouldn't line up with the way it keyed together, so there was drag on the mainshaft. I ended up having to open up the holes a bit on the 600N to make it all smooth. No issue with that here. If you've built a 600N, you can build one of these, it's not tough, the guys who've never set a gear mesh before will see something new, but other than that, it goes right together.


Nick Crego
I swear to God, I'll pistol whip the next guy that says Shenanigans
02-19-2008 10:28 PM
 
 
loewermx
Veteran
Location: Alexandria, La

I have to agree with every word, Eury. I loved building mine. It was fun with just a bit of a challenge.

So far, I like the way the machine flys. I am still breaking in everything in so I have it very "tame"

I am looking forward to hearing the coming comments also.

Oh, and Eury, throw in a few pictures why don't ya!

Team Cajun Helicopters
Team CCRCC Heli Club
02-19-2008 11:11 PM
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
Eury
rrProfessor
Location: Ankeny, IA, USA.

Had to leave the build for a little while (my little boy woke up), but I got back to it for half an hour or so, it's sitting on the gear, with the main gear and main shaft installed, and the tail mesh set.

The flanged bearings for the rear CCPM lever didn't fit cleanly into the frames, and the holes needed to be gradually opened up with an X-acto, checking for fit the entire time so they'd snap in but not be loose. Not a big deal, but if you were to force them in, they'd get notchy. I pushed them in before I had the holes opened up all the way and they got notchy, so be ready for that.

The landing gear is VERY cool. It's nice and has a little bit of flex, like you'd want, but I don't see it breaking easily. The center section of the landing gear really ties together the frame halves and gives it all a great deal of rigidity. It's a lot like the G-force frame braces that cost another $60 for the 600N in the way it's tied together. The final assembly is rock solid, with no flex. Nothing scientific, just me picking it up, but it does seem like the landing gear assembly is quite heavy compared to a conventional gear setup. Of course, part of that is the thick center section that braces the frame, but with a little ingenuity, a regular gear could be adapted and some weight saved.

Setting the tail gear mesh was like setting mesh on anything, find the high spot on the gear by pushing the block tight against the gear, then rotate teh gear until you find the high spot (it's obvious, there's a point where mine gets very tight), then back off just a tad so it's smooth, but with no lash. That put it with the right amount of lash at the low spot on the gear. I'm expecting to go and readjust that mesh after the first few tanks wear the gears in.

My biggest complaint is that the manual is really lacking in detail for the drawings. The pictures show the frames, and show what to bolt in, but the holes in the frames aren't all depicted. So, for things like the body mounts, and some of the cross members, you've got to look at the pictures and then at the frames and extrapolate which hole to use based on the position in the picture, since the hole isn't depicted. Not good. It's doable, but that's a pretty big issue with the diagrams.



Sorry for not posting pics, but I figure there's a bunch already out there. Download the manual and you can see what I'm talking abot if nothing else. I'll tell you, this is a hell of a helicopter, in my experience, there's nothing else that even approaches how nice this is in the 50 class. And I havne't even gotten to the head yet.


Nick Crego
I swear to God, I'll pistol whip the next guy that says Shenanigans
02-20-2008 01:41 AM
 
 
Eury
rrProfessor
Location: Ankeny, IA, USA.

Just mounted the governor magnets, and mounted the fan on the engine. Nice mounting, it uses 2 collets, so it self centers. All the same, I dial indicated it, and without any adjustments, it was at .0015. Pretty damn good. Nice fan setup, RJX.


Nick Crego
I swear to God, I'll pistol whip the next guy that says Shenanigans
02-20-2008 02:54 AM
 
 
patriot21
Key Veteran
Location: Eagle Lake,MN

I was really impressed with the fan/clutch assembly as well... first mounting they dialed in at .002... not bad!!!

My Sponsor:VISA
02-20-2008 03:01 AM
 
 
Eury
rrProfessor
Location: Ankeny, IA, USA.

That's the second heli I've had with that setup, my Pantera was the same way. My favorite so far is the way the 600N fan and clutch goes, with this second. The kind where they just ahve a single collet works well too, but they certainly don't center up as easily as these dual collet setups.

Enough for me today, I spent about 3.5 hours total on it, I'll probably finish it up tomorrow.


Nick Crego
I swear to God, I'll pistol whip the next guy that says Shenanigans
02-20-2008 03:10 AM
 
 
JAGNZ
Elite Veteran
Location: Auckland, New Zealand

Thanks Nick, keep the info coming!

Jason Greenwood

Fury Extreme, 2X T600N's, Trex 500, DSX9 2.4
www.3dheli.co.nz
02-20-2008 03:17 AM
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
ez2bgman
Elite Veteran
Location: N'awlins, LA

Sounds like it is coming along nice, Nick. Check out my last post in patriot21's thread about the servo arms for a tip about the elevator lever.

Gary
RJX of USA
Magnum Fuels
SwitchGlo
>Hot Girlz in da gallery<
02-20-2008 05:07 AM
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
Eury
rrProfessor
Location: Ankeny, IA, USA.

Haven't had much time today, but I got to sit down for about an hour, and now the head is built and the engine is installed. Here's my observations:

The engine goes right in, but as mentioned in the instructions, pull the carb first or it won't fit through the hole. Also, wait to put the bottom screws into the motor mount that are on the side frame until you get the motor in, or you'll be pulling them back out (ask me how I know). Mesh on the main gear is simple to set. I use the following method for gear mesh:

Push the pinion all the way against the main gear, and turn the main gear until I find the high point. Mark that with a sharpie, then back the pinion off just a touch so there is no lash, but it turns smoothly. This puts the mesh at the low point at the correct amount, to where I can feel the gear can be rocked just slightly, and it is smooth at the high point. After running a tank or through, go back in and check the mesh, generally the gear is closer to true at this point, and there'll be a tiny bit of lash at the high point, and the same amount at the low point as before.

On to the head, the instructions are nice and clear, I set mine up according to the supplement in the kit that is described as very responsive, but stable. Kinda like my Evo, I hope. The head components are very nice, and went together with no extra effort on my part. The flybar seesaw was already assembled into the headblock in my kit, but there was no threadlock on the screws (actually, everything that's preassembled was that way, luckily there's only 6 screws I've come across so far that were already in place). I'm happy to report that the little blue "RJX" and "Xtreme" logos on the side of the head are just little plastic plates, and popped right out, leaving a nice clean shiny head. I just think the blue things took away from the overall appeal of the head.

The only hitches on the head assembly I've found are:

The radius block pins are slightly too large to move smoothly in the washout block, so there is a ton of drag. I haven't fixed it yet, but I'll probably pull the radius block and washout off and polish the pins until the move without drag.

The swash is nice and chunky and tight, very nice design, it doesn't have a screw to tighten up any slop like some of the better swashes have, but then again, I've never had a need to use those screws, so it probably isn't an issue. However, the center ball's movement is a bit gritty on mine. I put a couple drops of Tri-flo on it, and it didn't really make any difference. Pretty disappointing, the kit is pretty much perfect up until that. Maybe I should send it back for Rusty to take a look at, but I want to fly it this weekend, and maybe it'll smooth out. We'll see. I do a partial teardown after the first few flights to check screws and things, and I'll pull the swash at that point and check it.


Nick Crego
I swear to God, I'll pistol whip the next guy that says Shenanigans
02-20-2008 11:55 PM
 
 
RjX of USA
Senior Heliman
Location: IL



Nick one of these should take care of any gritty tight links.

http://www.horizonhobby.com/Product...rodId=JRP960219
I use this tool on all my links

Rusty Howard rjxofusa@myway.com
02-21-2008 12:42 AM
 
 
Eury
rrProfessor
Location: Ankeny, IA, USA.

It's not the links, it's the uniball in the center of the swash that feels gritty. Like I said, I think I may have gotten a bad one, but I'm willing to fly it and see if it smooths out.


Nick Crego
I swear to God, I'll pistol whip the next guy that says Shenanigans
02-21-2008 12:52 AM
 
 
Mr.Green
Senior Heliman
Location: Layton, Utah

My wahsout pins had the same issue - at least I thought at first. Take a close look at them and see if they are aligned perfectly. I had to give mine a slite twist to get them aligned perfectly and then all was well.

My swash feels the exact same way as what you are describing. I also put Tri-Flow on mine with little improvement. Hopefully it works itself in.


How are your main grips? I had a problem with one of the metal main grips. I put the blade in, inserted the 4 mm bolt and put the nut on the bottom of the grip in the little keeper and started tightening it down. It tighened up about half way and the little keeper on the bottom of the blade grip gave out and just started spinning instead of holding the nut in place. I PM'd Rusty about it and he said that is very common and all will probably do it eventaully and not even worth replacing. Seemed a bit odd to me to even have them if they don't hold the nuts in place.
02-21-2008 03:09 AM
 
 
Eury
rrProfessor
Location: Ankeny, IA, USA.

Hmm. Interesting that you ave the same issue on your swash. It doesn't jump around, it just feels a bit gritty, I don't think that it'll effect the flight characteristics of the heli. For the record, Rusty already got ahold of me and offered to swap it out if I want to send it in, I turned him down, this Sunday looks pretty decent for flying, and I don't want to miss it. If the swash issue gets worse then I'll bite the bullet and buy a Quick UK swash for it, if it stays the same and doesn't effect flight characteristics, then I honestly don't care if it has that feel to it.

My washout/radius was also out of alignment, and I tweaked the pins a bit so it would fit, but the tolerances are off and it still doesn't move easily. Oh well, it'll be easy to fix, and I'd much rather have that way than it too loose and effecting the flying like it does on my 600N.

My grips are perfect. I tightened down the bolts and the holders worked fine. I actually like the way they did the keepers, on grips that have the hole that matches the nut, I sometimes get them stuck in there, or it can be tough to fit the nuts in without looking. With these, they just slide in and tighten down.

Honestly, I couldn't be happier and more impressed with the kit. It's obvious that it doesn't come from a big manufacturer like Hirobo/Align etc, in that it lacks the polish in some areas (mostly the manual), but it is a seriously impressive design. Not that the manual and other things (having to glue the clutch liner, set meshes, align the engine, fit the flanged bearings to the frames) are difficult, but for an inexperienced builder, they'd have a tough time without someone to hold their hand. But, for someone who has a few helis under their belt, it wouldn't be tough, just a nice interesting build that requires some brains. For guys who've built an MA heli, it's a cake walk. The fact that I have no problem comparing it to an MA really says a lot. It's expensive, but it's worth every penny.


Nick Crego
I swear to God, I'll pistol whip the next guy that says Shenanigans
02-21-2008 03:30 AM
 
 
Eury
rrProfessor
Location: Ankeny, IA, USA.

OK, it's built with the exception of installing the servos, setting up the links from the servos up through the swash, and glueing the carbon rods for the tail together. Total time to this point is about 5 hours, that's a little bit more than building a 600N, but only because of the preassembly that Align does on some parts, and the extra adjustments on the X50. There are no more parts on the X50 than on the 600N, and the build is only slightly more difficult, not even close to building an MA heli. I can take a 600N from box to the air with all setup in about 7 hours, I'd bet I have a total of 8 into this by the time it sees the sky. Not really much of a difference there.

Head


On the head setup, I previously mentioned the radius block and washout not fitting together. After looking at it with fresh eyes, Mr Green was right, the pins were tweaked more than I realized, so a couple minutes with a pair of pliers corrected that issue. Everything moves smoothly now, but there is enough drag that the swash/washout won't fall under its own weight. After taking it all apart, I've traced it to the liner inside the washout lock being just a little tight. I'm going to fly it like it is and recheck after a few flights, I'm betting that it wears in and ends up nice and smooth. Pretty much every link in the head had to be sized, they were all tight, but with a little attention, they fit perfectly with no slop and little to no friction. In all, a VERY nice head.

Tail

Moving to the tail, it's one solid unit. Looking at pictures, I had my doubts about the tail box's robustness, but in person, it's more than up to the job. It's one solid machined block with a single bolt on cross member at the back to allow removal of the belt. The sides of the box fit perfectly inside the boom, and it is retained by 4 bolts from the sides. Very nice design, easily the best I've seen. Out of the box, the tail slider and pitch change arm assembly had quite a bit of binding, I traced it down to 2 places. First, the bolt that holds the pitch arm can't be over tightened, or it will drag. Second, the delrin insert in the pitch arm that mates with the ball on the slider was a bit too small and causing drag. A little bit of xacto work cleared that right up and now it has a slop free, friction free action to it.

I didn't use the stock tail grips, instead I ordered the metal thrust bearing units, which are a nice design, with strong 1 piece grips. The grips are retained by a nylon insert nut, which I like, and there is plenty of room to get a wrench in there to turn it. While the grip assembly was preassembled, it does need to be taken apart, as there is no grease on the thrust bearings, and when reassembling, care has to be taken to not over tighten the nut or it will cause the grips to bind. The correct tightness of that nut leaves the end of the tail hub just about level with the end of the nut, so the nylon insert is engaged and preventing the nut from coming loose. I would prefer to see a little extra material sticking out, but it should be fine as is, I'll be double checking that nut when I go through the heli after flying. There is no endplay in the grips, and they don't rock back and forth like some thrust bearing tails (Evo for instance), so it'd be simple to tell if that nut was coming loose just by checking for play. Mounting the tail hub assembly to the box, I again had to adjust the ball links coming from the pitch slider as they were tight and would have caused binding.

From there it was just putting the belt down the boom (nice belt, it looks almost exactly like the Raptor's, which I've never had a problem with). I used something that I saw in a magazine to put the belt down the boom. Generally I just fish it down, and figure out any twists once it's through, which can be frustrating since it sometimes falls off the end of the rod or whatever I'm using to push it down. This time I put a paper towel inside the belt at the end and pushed them down as a unit, it kept the belt tight in the boom, and also kept it straight. I've been doing this for nearly a decade and a half, wish I had seen that when I started!

I've got to go out to buy some JB weld to make the pushrods with, and set up the servos and links, but I can give a pretty good impression of the overall heli at this point.

Good points:

1. It is a much nicer design than a 600N. If you buy a 600N pro for $600 when you could have this, you're crazy. The materials are nicer, the construction is better, it doesn't have the slop, it doesn't have the parts that need to be upgraded out of the box, it's just superior in every way in construction. Flying wise I'll see this weekend, hopefully. Even comparing it to my $400 600N Sport, it comes out as a better deal, I still had to add $110 for a swash and washout, $20 for a fan, and other misc parts totalling about $100 to get it to where it isn't sloppy, and is robust enough for the long term. At which point I have more into the 600N than I do in the Xtreme 50, and it's still not nearly as nice a machine.

2. I know that every step of the way I talk about adjusting links and tolerances on a few parts, but I never had anything that was sloppy, everything I had to adjust was because things were a bit tight, so I was able to get them perfect with no slop. I love the delrin insert in the washout and tail pitch change arm. It makes 2 areas that are relatively high wear have nice smooth movements and should prolong the life of those parts. I dunno if the delrin inserts are available seperately or not to replace when they wear out, but if they are, that would be ideal. I'd much rather have something like the X50 where I have to open up some holes and size some links than my 600N where it's loose and sloppy out of the box.

3. It's just well thought out. Little things like the way the tank mounts ensures that there won't be any vibration, nice little key in gyro trays that add no weight, the delrin inserts in wear parts, stiff frame and landing gear structure that ties in together, and the dual collets on the fan really show that the designers were thinking when they came up with the heli. I couldn't be more impressed with the design. It is above the rest of the 50s out there, without exception.

4. Very nice painted canopy.


Not so good points:


1. Things I don't like are few. First, the manual needs work. The diagrams should be improved and linkage lengths should be on the page when you build the links. I can see how Patriot21 missed some things in his build and made those posts about it. The manual's diagrams throw 100 parts all in one picture, then don't show you the holes to put them in. Not good, and easily the weakest part of the package. If you've built a bunch of helis before, you're not going to have any real trouble, but it'll still take some thinking.

2. Plastic, radial bearing tail grips. Seriously? A kit of this caliber with plastic radial bearing tail grips? I'm sure they work fine, it looks like they put a Raptor 50 tail in it, which works fine. But I've had issues with radial tail grips in the past, never had one with a thrust bearing tail. It's like the heli was being designed and they put the best of everything into it, and at the end of the day they realized they never designed a set of tail grips for it, and were too tired, so they just threw in something they had on the shelf. It's disappointing, and doesn't belong in a machine of this caliber. The upgrade tail cost me $40, and should be what's in the box.

3. Kinda nit-picky, but the fan shroud is tiny, and doesn't go over the head of the engine. I'm sure it works fine, my Evos didn't cover the head either and never had a problem, but it'd be nice if it did for better cooling.

4. That nice painted canopy is pretty flimsy. Comparing it to the other FG canopies I have here (Fury, and 600e), it is much thinner material. I don't see it being repairable in after a crash. Yes, it saves weight, and looks great, but I wish it had been made more robust. I've repaired numerous FG canopies, but this seems like it's going to tear and be impossible to salvage. I could be wrong, maybe it'll hold up well being so flexible. We'll see when I drive it into the ground at some point. As a comparison, here's the thickness of the 3:

X50 - .75mm
600e - 1mm
Fury - 1.25 at the thin point, tapering up to 3mm towards the rear where the mounts are.

Also, I would have liked to see the canopy mount holes already there. They have provided dimples to mark them, which is nice, but having the holes would be better.

In all, the negatives are pretty minor, and if you are willing to to buy the thrust bearing tail and are an experienced builder, the negatives would only be there if you are looking for things to complain about. This is a great heli, I'm more impressed by it than I've been of any other heli I've owned in this size, and it's right there with the various X-cells, Furys, and Stratus I've owned in the past. Can't wait to see the X90 come out.


Nick Crego
I swear to God, I'll pistol whip the next guy that says Shenanigans
02-21-2008 04:31 PM
 
 
Eury
rrProfessor
Location: Ankeny, IA, USA.

I had a chance to put the servo in and start on the links. Very nice servo plates that act as nuts for the servo screws. They are a neat design that keys into the grommets on the servo to hold them, really makes it easy to get those screws in where you'd ordinarily be glueing them, or contorting to hold them on while you started the screws.

I do have a question, looking at the pics of other people's X50s, they all have carbon or G10 plates that go between the screws and the frames, or between the screws and the servos to act as washers and give it more structure. Mine didn't come with those, I just have washers, not nearly as elegant a solution. Did everyone else's come with those plates? Also, I was under the impression for other people's posts that it came with the tail rod guides I've linked to, mine came with the 2 piece plastic ones that you bend over the boom and screw together. What'd everyone else's come with?

http://rjxofusa.com/store/product_i...&products_id=88


Nick Crego
I swear to God, I'll pistol whip the next guy that says Shenanigans
02-21-2008 07:50 PM
 
 
acri84
Heliman
Location: covington, ga -usa

Eury
The X-50 does not bring the servo plates you are talking about it brings washers. Maverick makes those plates you are talking about. I have seen them in various colors too, but i dont know who makes them.
Also, the standard boom guide with the kit is the wrap around. The one piece are seperate.

Mike
RJX of USA field rep
G-Force Factory Pilot
BEAM TEAM
Magnum Fuel Rep
02-21-2008 08:10 PM
 
 
loewermx
Veteran
Location: Alexandria, La

Eury, my kit also came with the tail rod guides that you have to bend over and screw together. I personally like this better than the slide over.

The servo plates can be found at a few different mfgs. I know Align makes some in Carbon and thunder tiger makes some out of silver alum. Thats the few that ring a bell with me. Mine did not come with these but I have some from past projects that I used.

Team Cajun Helicopters
Team CCRCC Heli Club
02-21-2008 08:24 PM
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
RjX of USA
Senior Heliman
Location: IL

Eury

We have these servo plates your talking about made out of CF, and will be getting the alum. soon in red, blue and silver. Right now we have the CF Plates have been added under misc.

Rusty Howard rjxofusa@myway.com
02-21-2008 08:28 PM
 
 
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RJX Hobby Hurrican 50 - Xtreme 50 > My X50 build and comparison
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