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Aerobatic FAI F3C Contest > What is the best F3C head???

nicco
Veteran
Location: Sweden

Hello everyone.

I plan to go for some competition this year. I will use my ION-X2 as an airframe, but what is the best F3C head?

Should I go for a Tempest FAI or some Hirobo head???

I looking forward to all replays!

/N

01-29-2008 10:43 PM

RCHelicopterGuy
Veteran
Location: Michigan

Wait a minute... I need to get some popcorn.

01-29-2008 10:48 PM

ErichF
Key Veteran
Location: Odessa, FL 33556 (Tampa Area)

It's hard to beat the Hirobo SSZ-III head, when configured properly, and I happen to know that it fits and flies on a Stratus pretty well.

Food for thought.

Team Kyosho Regional Field Representative

01-29-2008 11:16 PM

nicco
Veteran
Location: Sweden

ErichF,

Thanks for you answer. Do you happen to know the distance between the blade blolt on that head? Or do you know how long blade it is possible to use when fitted on a Stratus with 33" boom?

Regards
Niklas

01-30-2008 11:10 AM

GM1
Elite Veteran
Location: Tallahassee, Florida US

SSZ-3, SSR-7

Both the SSZ-3 and SSR-7 Hirobo heads will fit on the Stratus and you can use up to 720mm/105mm blades. I would suggest 710mm/95 for FAI. The Stratus comes stock with a 4.7 TR gear ratio and while I personally would like that to be a little higher, say 5.0, the shorter tail blades work well and don't require very much power to work correctly, The 105s really suck power out of the system when doing the 450 pirouette.
The head off the JR Vibe and Sylphide are also adaptable to the Stratus. The Kyosho Caliber 90 head would require an adapter to fit a 12mm head on a 10mm main shaft. K&S also has a really nice looking FAI head that could be made to fit pretty easily.
Gordie

On a dog sled team, if you're not the lead dog, the view never changes.

01-30-2008 12:27 PM

nicco
Veteran
Location: Sweden

Thanks for you replay, now I have a lot of choices

My plans was to use the new 720 Scott Gray blade, since I liked the normal Rotortech 720mm.

But what kind of 710 blade do you recommend?

Regards
N

01-30-2008 01:49 PM

Wayne Mann
Senior Heliman
Location: United States of America

Hi Nicco,

Stick with the 720 Rotor Tech blades as these blades are far superior to any other airfoil that I have ever flown. I would rather use rotor blades that are a little too long for optimal performance than use a rotor blade of the correct length for disk loading purposes that flies like crap.

Just my opinion

Wayne Mann

01-30-2008 06:21 PM

nicco
Veteran
Location: Sweden

I think you are right.

I probably can get a slightly longer boom and the problem is solved.

So, back to the original questions. What is is best head :-)

/N

01-30-2008 09:08 PM

Dr.Ben
Elite Veteran
Location: Richmond, VA, USA

MA can make you up a custom tube/boom in any reasonable length you need.

Ben

01-31-2008 12:10 AM

Wayne Mann
Senior Heliman
Location: United States of America

Hi guys,

The Kyosho 06 Caliber 90 rotor head is the most flexible rotor head with regards to varying ways that it can be set up that I have ever seen. It allows you to make fly bar authority adjustments over a very large range and these adjustments have no bearing on bell inputs (direct cyclic inputs to the rotor blades). Furthermore the blade grips have been proven to be bullet proof with regards to strength. I have flown hundreds of flights with Rotor Tech 720 mm long blades that I modified to get the total weight and tip weight like I like with no problems. These rotor blades were 250 grams, very tip heavy (which is more important for this test) and I was spinning them at 2100 rpm or better upstairs. Even at that weight and head speed I very rarely have to change thrust bearings or radial bearings in the grips. Also this rotor head uses very large dampers that pretty much don't wear out. Once you get the damping the way you like it, it will stay there. Also this rotor head has damper threaded adjuster rings like the JR Sylphide which is a great idea.

This rotor head is superb, in my opinion. BUT...there is always a but, I would not recommend this rotor head because it is for 12 mm diameter main shafts. I would not use this on anything with a 10 mm shaft by means of a bushing. I just wouldn't trust it.

So, as for my recommendation...I would probably stick with the Miniature Aircraft head that Cliff Hiatt designed for contest use as long as you are going to keep the upstairs head speed down to 1850 or so with the Rotor Tech blades. This rotor head is a free floating axle design which is the most stable design in my opinion. I have flown a lot of different Hirobo heads and I have never liked any of them compared to a free floating axle design.

But if you just have to change rotor heads, then I would recommend the JR Vibe rotor head like Scott Gray is using WITH the plastic blade grips. It is pretty easy to find out exactly what Scott is using. This head right out of the box is one of the best hovering and aerobatic heads that I have ever flown. Blade grip strength with the plastic grips is the only complaint that I have with this rotor head. As long as you stick with stock "Scott Gray" Rotor Tech 720 rotor blades and keep the head speed to 1850 or less, you will never have a problem, unless you get a defective blade grip or something.

I hope this helps

Wayne Mann

01-31-2008 01:50 AM

JA Allen
Senior Heliman
Location: NYC

Thanks for the info, Wayne. Good stuff.

01-31-2008 02:26 AM

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Chris.C
Senior Heliman
Location: Hong Kong

Quote
The Kyosho 06 Caliber 90 rotor head is the most flexible rotor head with regards to varying ways that it can be set up that I have ever seen.

Could you share how? Mine is a 06 version but apart from the new adjustable damper rings, I can't see much difference from the previous version and the Hirobo design. I may overlook something here.

Cheers,

Chris

01-31-2008 02:29 AM

Wayne Mann
Senior Heliman
Location: United States of America

Hi Chris,

The design is very similar to the standard Caliber 90 head. The Hirobo heads are all "off center teeter hinge designs", where the head yoke pivots on a set of ball bearings that are above the center line of the axle (so to speak) and the dampers are below the center line of the axle.

Wayne Mann

01-31-2008 04:03 AM

nicco
Veteran
Location: Sweden

Quote
But if you just have to change rotor heads, then I would recommend the JR Vibe rotor head like Scott Gray is using WITH the plastic blade grips.

Whay do you recommend it with plastic grips?

Regards
Niklas

01-31-2008 09:49 AM

Wayne Mann
Senior Heliman
Location: United States of America

Hi Nicco,

Because when you use plastic blade grips you effectively have a duel dampen flapping head. The plastic blade grips are quite flexible and allow each blade to flap up and down independently. The key to great stability with plastic blade grips is to find some that have the right amount of flex in them. The X-Cell with the Triumph fuse that I flew to second place in Australia in 1991 had plastic blade grips and it was a great flying helicopter, "for it's time". I'm sure that I would not like it by today's standards at all, but that would be because of the radio gear, not the mechanics or fuse. Futaba 9201 servos absolutely suck compared to today's 9255 servos. Don't even get me going on the difference between the Futaba 9 channel radio I flew back then compared to the Futaba 14 MZ with 2048 resolution. Anyway, it was shortly after that time when Ted redesigned the plastic blade grips to make them stiffer and stronger, as we were starting to run heaver blades that lead to concerns about blade mount safety. The new stiffer and stronger blade mounts hovered like crap. I have flown several Vigors and Vibes with the plastic grips including Scott's Sylphide with the Vigor rotor head and the rotor head works very well in the wind in a hover. I have also been able to observe Len Sabato's machines with this rotor head combination at the worlds and during US competitions and I was always impressed with the stability it seemed to demonstrate in a hover.

I hope this helps

Wayne Mann

01-31-2008 01:47 PM

nicco
Veteran
Location: Sweden

Thanks for your answer Wayne!

Should it be with the metal center?

And how do I find out what Scotts setup is?

/N

01-31-2008 02:00 PM

RCHelicopterGuy
Veteran
Location: Michigan

Wayne,

I thought Len's Vigor/Vibe's used the metal grips and the plastic headblock (backwards from what you described). Seems like he told me once that he switched to the metal grips after watching a heli with plastic grips throw a blade at 2000+ rpm. You know him better than I do, though...

01-31-2008 03:01 PM

Wayne Mann
Senior Heliman
Location: United States of America

Yes I would use the metal head block as they are a lot more accuate and wear a lot less.

Len switch to metal grips after the worlds in Japan in 03. He threw a blade grip during a stall turn when the engine overspeeded severely during practice at our secret practice site.

Wayne Mann

01-31-2008 09:41 PM

mdu6
Veteran
Location: Montreal

You have some info on Scott's machines at his web site:

http://www.scottgrayrc.com/helis.php

02-01-2008 12:31 AM

Salesmanheliboy
Senior Heliman
Location: Nashville, TN

Best head….

Contest flying has one of the biggest demands on a wide envelope of requirements we need on our models; high degree of hovering stability as well as crisp stable aerobatics.

I think there are great foundations for the product and / or setup that are working well for a majority of the competitors. Master motivator (Tony Robins) is a big fan of “modeling” and I agree that to succeed in something, copy the process of other successful individuals. In this case, man and machine needs to work well together. It’s hard to argue the fact that Curtis Youngblood has had a very successful F3C contest life. I am also convinced that I would really struggle with the setup he uses (especially in the hovering) but it works very well for him.

Wayne Mann spent a great deal of time with me discussing rotor heads (and I really appreciate the time Wayne). While I do not fly the Kyosho machine, I duplicated a great deal of the geometry for my model and have been pretty pleased. I really like the ease and virtually infinite flybar ratio that can be tested on this rotor head as well.

The last comment I have is that you will have to deal with compromises while you are finding the “best” fit for you. Almost every time I get together with the contest guy’s some of us are testing some minor changes to gain a bit without loosing the same amount (or more!) somewhere else. Some stuff fly’s great in the wind but becomes a handful in calm air (and vice versa). You will need to work with something that feels good for you and learn how to handle the downsides.

Good luck in yore endeavors.

Tim DiPeri

02-01-2008 06:11 PM

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Aerobatic FAI F3C Contest > What is the best F3C head???

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